Okay, That Didn't Work

[Poink]

Hi all,
Haven't posted in a while but spend a lot of time reading all of your threads. Most of you will never know how much you mean to me, but let it be known I appreciate all of you fighting this battle.

Middle of November 2011 was prescribed naltrexone to be used to fight cravings while abstinent. Over the next 4 1/2 months was sober all but about 7 days. For me that is great. But those 7 or so days were hell...horrible. And the drinking days were beginning to come faster. Am looking at having to live this way forever. Not willing to live like this.

So now what? Already have some nal so will try extinction thru The Sinclair Method. Have read about every thread on the site about it and think it might be the next right thing. But I can't stand to spend 9-12 months or more drinking like I drink. Normal drinking for me is pretty much 24/7. I just can't stand the thought of returning to that yet again. Would like to find something to help moderate while on TSM or something that might shorten the time needed for TSM to work. Is that doable?

Am thinking about low dose baclofen along with the nal. Am thinking 30-60 mg per day. Seems to be some science supporting a bac/nal regimen. Am thinking it might help with some other issues also.


Am I thinking clearly? Probably not. But I am thinking and researching and working. Besides moving to HDB are there any other combinations that might work better?

Any thoughts or ideas appreciated.

[Rusty]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Hello Bama John,

Good for you for not giving up. You might get more feedback in you post this in the Meds Forum. Lots of good experience there.

Best of luck in your journey and stick with us.

[LadyLush]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Sorry, but Antabuse is the answer for most of us. It stops the battle in your head. Please consider this and read our posts!

LL

[cpn1004]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Bamajohn,
Have you tried AA?

[Heavy Fuel]

Okay, That Didn't Work

BamaJohn,

I saw your posts some months back when you started your naltrexone journey. I, too, take naltrexone, however, I don’t take it the way you tried. From what I have read, the best way to take naltrexone is the Sinclair Method.

I don’t know what your consumption is/was, but mine was 80-90 units per week leading up to when I started TSM. For a period of time before, my usage was even higher – 100-110 units per week last spring. This week’s usage will be about 13 units and I will be alcohol free four days. From my perspective, this is a victory. I define success as drinking less than the upper limits of moderate drinking. That means I don’t get drunk, but I can, and do, still drink. But I can choose when. I still wish to drink, which by some people's standards is a problem. My belief is when alcohol is no longer destructive, the treatment is successful. My regimen is take one 50mg naltrexone pill one hour before I drink, don't drink on an empty stomach, sometimes alternate water between beers, and to measure my results by keeping a log of my alcohol consumption.

As I suggest to everyone, you need to define what success is for you. From that point, you need to seek the treatment that will get you to that end. Bacoflen? Maybe, it has a lot of side effects, just read this board. Antabuse? Maybe, but it, too, has side effects, one of which is to increase alcohol craving. AA? If that’s your thing. None of those methods are the ONLY way, as some would say. There are options. You should find the option best for you.

I wish you every success in your journey!

[Steady Hands]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Hi BamaJohn

I don't know about drugs. Just want you to know you are not alone. I also caved around the 4 month mark. Got tired to be left out because I don't drink anymore... and then drank alone...???

I feel so much better with some AF time again. I just agree that we cannot spend the next few months drinking!!

Go well.
SH

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Wow. What a variety of responses!

So. To your question!
I don't know a whole lot about NAL. I definitely know more about the TSM way, though, than the way it's usually prescribed. (The first makes a bit of sense to me, but there's no science behind it. The second makes absolutely no sense to me, but there is some research that says it can be effective.)
I'm definitely heartened by the success of KatieSmiles and Ukblonde. They both did TSM and are free from craving. I'm quite sure they'd get a private message or email and respond!

As to the low-dose baclofen. I think it's a great idea!
However, (and this is where I might ruffle a few feathers) I would strongly encourage you to titrate up (to any dose) and to take it regularly, with a plan in place for success.
By that I specifically suggest:
Decide on the goal.
Pick a titration schedule and stick with it.
Take it at the same time every day. Don't miss any. Don't take extra.

Taking it any other way decreases the opportunity for success. That's all I'm sayin' 'bout that.

As to the rest? I took the opportunity to look at your old posts, and yowza, what you wrote strikes a chord, Bama. I feel like we're alcoholic kin. (The rehabs, the knuckleheaded docs, the booze thing goes without saying...)
Anyway, welcome back and hang in there.
4.5 months is outrageously good so you must be doing lots of things right.

[spacebebe01]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Hi Barma

I havent got any great ideas for you as Im in a similar situation myself, had 6 months AF with antabuse and drank and dont want to spend the rest of my life doing that so Im looking at other options. I have never taken nal so cant comment on it.

Good luck

[YouKayBee]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Hi Bamajohn

I have enjoyed massive success with taking Nal the TSM way, I will say however the method does require time, patience and there will be episodes where you think it isn't working. I can say that it did work for me, and has now reduced my cravings to zilch. I actually really no longer enjoy alcohol if truth be told, and without the drive to drink well I'm mostly abstenant without a great deal of effort.

When I started TSM last thing I wanted was to continue my problematic drinking behaviour, but it was either that or end up in the gutter - which simply wasn't acceptable to me.

The other thing I'd like to comment upon is this idea of 'drinking as you normally would'. Some interpret this as meaning you must force down the amount of alcohol you already drink, well I didn't do it this way at all. I decided to simply drink when I wanted to, always with Nal before hand but if I didn't fancy a drink I didn't have one, if I wanted to stop after half my usual amount, then I stopped. I also would use other methods such as simply deciding to have an early night instead of drinking, because I think ANY AF time is good - nal, TSM or no TSM. In my eyes it gets you used to dealing with stuff and with time it becomes the norm. At no time did I force myself to drink anything, I just went with the flow but always had the goal of cutting my drinking back in mind all the time.

I hope this goes someway to helping you on your journey and feel free to ask any questions either in public or via PM.

UKB

[Poink]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Thank you all for being here and for responding.

LadyLush, when I was given nal a few months ago I was actually wanting antabuse because the daily debate is so stressful. My shrink chose instead to give me nal. Am determined to seek extinction. And I have read almost every post made on this site in the last 2 years.

I love this site. And to have some of my idols respond to my post is just way cool. If you have posted in this section, I have read it. And, for lack of a better term, there are some rockstars on this site and some of you have taken the time and effort to help me. Again, way cool.

Phil, have spent the last 15 years in and out of the rooms. Actually might go back for reenforcement but unable to go all in. I believe this malady is more medical and physical than spiritual.

Heavy Fuel, your past consumption was almost identical to mine. Hope that my result is close to yours. What do I want? I want to not have alcohol rule my life. If I got down to 50 units a week and could maintain that I would consider it a success. If I didn't care if I drank or how much I drank that would be great. If I never wanted a drink again that would be great. I probably should have a specific goal but I don't. I just don't want to live like this.

Steady Hands...thanks. And we quit smoking at the same time too.

Ne/Neva Eva....you have been a constant source of information and inspiration. Can't tell you how much your posts have meant to me. Thank you.

Spacebebe...you often break my heart. So much of what I go thru I read in your posts. Please don't give up. They say that what doesn't kill us makes us stronger. Let's move on to the next best thing.

Ukblonde...it is really because of you that I think this might work. Your posts, and your perseverance, give me a lot of hope. I love the way you stuck it out even when some of the feedback you received wasn't the most positive. Am sure that I will have questions for you as I move forward.

Will soon start a progress thread and hope that all of you will stick with me on this journey. To each of you who read this, I wish only the best for you.

[Heavy Fuel]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Actually, the Combine study and a few other studies show the efficacy of it. Dr. Sinclari has done quite a bit of work himself: he worked for a national department of health. There is a body of science behind the method, but the research isn't long term (i.e. 5 or more years.) From the TSM forum, the average length of time for TSM is somewhere around six months to control. A follow on drug to naltrexone, nalfeme is coming, based on the same protocols.

"Craving" is not as much of an issue for those who follow TSM, in fact I don't regard it at all. I have reached the point on the days I don't drink, I don't think about alcohol until I get to my decision point: an alarm. If I decide I want to drink, then I take a pill. If I decide not to, then I don't. I experience no discomfort either way. I am not "titratting" up or down, and if I run out of naltrexone, it isn't a big deal, I simply won't drink until I have more.

Ne/Neva Eva;1293561 wrote: Wow. What a variety of responses!

So. To your question!
I don't know a whole lot about NAL. I definitely know more about the TSM way, though, than the way it's usually prescribed. (The first makes a bit of sense to me, but there's no science behind it. The second makes absolutely no sense to me, but there is some research that says it can be effective.)
I'm definitely heartened by the success of KatieSmiles and Ukblonde. They both did TSM and are free from craving. I'm quite sure they'd get a private message or email and respond!

As to the low-dose baclofen. I think it's a great idea!
However, (and this is where I might ruffle a few feathers) I would strongly encourage you to titrate up (to any dose) and to take it regularly, with a plan in place for success.
By that I specifically suggest:
Decide on the goal.
Pick a titration schedule and stick with it.
Take it at the same time every day. Don't miss any. Don't take extra.

Taking it any other way decreases the opportunity for success. That's all I'm sayin' 'bout that.

As to the rest? I took the opportunity to look at your old posts, and yowza, what you wrote strikes a chord, Bama. I feel like we're alcoholic kin. (The rehabs, the knuckleheaded docs, the booze thing goes without saying...)
Anyway, welcome back and hang in there.
4.5 months is outrageously good so you must be doing lots of things right.

[spacebebe01]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Thanks Barma, I truley dont believe I will ever really give up in this, all the years I have been struggling with the booze I know I am still here because I have kept on trying and I hope you do to, I look forward to you starting your own thread and hope to be able to follow it.

x

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Thanks for the kind words, Bama. :l Power on!

Heavy Fuel, I was referring to the stuff I've read in the medical journals...Not all inclusive, for sure, and mostly revolving around bac and/or treatment in general in my searches. I'm really glad you're able to share your experience here. (And I would concur with your description of a positive goal and outcome.) Thanks for all of that. What's the combine study?

[eight days a week]

Okay, That Didn't Work

I just spent an hour writing a reply to each and every point that people have made on this thread, but it's not really necessary. So, I'll just say this: TSM doesn't work as advertised. Check out the old posts on TSM (I was there from the start) and it just doesn't add up. Sinclair - where is he? Having supposedly discovered the 'cure for alcoholism' that would have probably won him the Nobel Prize for Science (if he had) he is now off pursuing his own private weight loss clinic using the same med. Doesn't sound particularly world-transforming, does it?

Eskapa - where is he? Having published the book he too has disappeared. I consulted one of his best friends/colleagues in London. He promised me 100% success rate. After six months, and my life still going down the pan, he started blaming my lack of inner strength - I wasn't paying him ?200 an hour for that when he (and the book) promised me such a great 'cure' rate, effortlessly - just drink as 'you want to' - it's fantasy. Dr Joshua Berkowitz in Harley Street was the doctor - I can only say see him at your own peril.

Nal works amazingly well for certain people, it seems, like UKBlonde. As her posts on her former (deleted at her own request) profile here show, though, she did not follow TSM as per the book, and she also admitted she is completely atypical in her response to this med (of course though I am very glad indeed it has helped her so dramatically).

Don't mess around - get on Baclofen alone. If you take two approaches at the same time and improve then you will never know what is working. Nal is also not something to take lightly imo - if you're in any accident ER staff must know no opiate-based painkillers will have an effect (the drug blocks them) or you will be in a whole heap of trouble. It's a scary scenario.

[Heavy Fuel]

Okay, That Didn't Work

Ne/Neva Eva;1293840 wrote: ......

What's the combine study?

The COMBINE Study was a study done by the NIH and published in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Combined Pharmacotherapies and Behavioral Interventions for Alcohol Dependence, May 3, 2006, Anton et al. 295 (17): 2003 — JAMA

There are more studies listed here: http://smartpopbooks.com/cureforalco...holism-Ch3.pdf

As I watched my numbers go slowly down, I didn't have to look up anything else. I publish my consumption units in my signature on the TSM forum.

It is another tool for those who wish to follow it. TSM is tedious, it has taken me eight months to get this far. It does require will power, work and effort. I think at the end, I will be completely abstinent, as I am really losing interest in drinking and don't like going bars anymore. Which is huge.

There is more than one way to fix this problem now. This is the one I chose because I was the most comfortable with the science and drug used.