4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

[Bminor]

Hi Everyone,

It's been awhile since I've posted anything here. I check in occasionally to see how folks are doing and such, but I've been alcohol free for so long that I don't have that much to offer anymore... that and I no longer take Baclofen.

I wanted to pose a question though, I am 4 months removed from bac and I still suffer from erectile dysfunction that was brought on by HDB. I can swear with all my heart that of everything I've ever put in my body... nothing EVER gave me ED until I started taking Bac. (still a wonderful drug for most people and not bashing it) I am going to see a regular Dr in a little over a week to discuss my issue. I wonder how he will react to my explanation of Baclofen and how I acquired it? I guess I will just be honest and state that I got it through a reputable source (Dr. L.) and then hopefully just request a FULL bloodwork panel and maybe get a referral to an endocrinologist or something to find out what the hell is going on with my body. You cannot imagine the frustration this is causing me. I just hope he doesn't freak out or anything. Has anyone else explained to their regular doctors about baclofen use and the means of acquiring it from Dr. L.?

Thanks!!!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

Yep. Both Ed and I have told our docs about the HDB and how we get it and why. (Though we don't mention the doc...)

Here's the thing: I don't doubt that there's a correlation between the process you went through and the ED. There are A LOT of chemical/physical and mental changes that go on, right? (And no, I'm not about to suggest it's all in your head. :H That pisses me off more than any other single thing around here. oy.)

I write all this for a couple of reasons. The first is, as you know, Ed had problems with that before HDB.
Then when he started drinking less and started taking more bac, he went to the other extreme. Then that all settled down, but he began experiencing it again, sporadically. You had posted about it (thank you!) and we had exchanged PMs about it, and the thought of it lasting for a long time was...disconcerting.
I wanted to get to the bottom of it. There's almost as much (mis)information about ED as there is about...well, everything else. My conclusion was that if it became an ongoing issue for him, we'd head to the doc for a full round of "well, what can it be?" Because for us there wasn't any question that he would continue taking the HDB.
ED is (like so much else) a function of the ankle-bone is connected to the leg-bone and the leg-bone is connected to the knee-bone...Ya know? I'm glad (relieved!) you are going to get a full work up. I don't think (at this point) baclofen is going to be relevant, in terms of what your doctor is going to look at for reasons and solutions. Simply because you've been off of it too long. I DO think that there is a reason, and hopefully you can figure it out from the blood work and not with a ($$$) visit to an endocrinologist.

But back to your questions! The doc is likely to raise an eyebrow, or give a tsk tsk, about the HDB. But baclofen is pretty innocuous and you're not taking it any more and you're stone cold sober. If he's an ass about it, fire him. Seriously. You will be grateful you did. (If he doesn't see the benefit, and sees you or treats you as a drug seeking ex-alkie with mental issues, he's not likely to look for solutions with a whole heart. Right? He'll likely ship you off to a shrink and not an endocrinologist.) If he dismisses the bac as having anything to do with it, that's fine. If your blood tests come back with a reason, you'll have a solution. (HBP, hormone levels. lordy, Bminor, just about everything.)

If the physical comes back without any offer of a solution, THEN you can address what changed when you started taking HDB. Right? Because it's not about what the baclofen caused or exacerbated. It's about how to fix it. Am I being clear? I feel like I'm talking in circles. Which means I should edit and then sign off. But I don't have time. And you asked.

You'll find a solution. And then chickadees beware!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

And OMG. Congratulations!!!

I know you've got this on your mind, and drinking is a non-issue for you now, but you have no idea how amazing it is for the rest of us to hear that you're doing well.
I finally understand how it is that you became so sure of your AF-ness that you could stop taking bac. I am pretty sure that's the case for me, too, now. I never would have thought it...But I feel completely removed from alcohol addiction. That said, it ain't broke, so I'm not trying to fix it! Still, it's heartening to know what your experience has been. Check in a bit more frequently, will you please? grrrrrrrrr.

[GingerDust]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

Minor, I think Ne is right. It sounds like a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" situation. If you've been off the baclofen for four months, it's probably a coincidence that the ED began after you'd started HDB, rather than the baclofen causing it. ED is a very common problem as men age, and lots of men get treated for it. As far as your doc goes, tell him you were on a high-dose baclofen protocol through a shrink in Chicago. The protocol worked but this ED thing happened during that process. I doubt your doc is going to point the finger at baclofen (since you've been off it for so long) or grill you about Dr. L.

Congrats on being AF! It is truly life-changing. I hope your doc and you get the rest sorted out.

[Bminor]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

Ne/Neva Eva;1296092 wrote: Yep. Both Ed and I have told our docs about the HDB and how we get it and why. (Though we don't mention the doc...)

Here's the thing: I don't doubt that there's a correlation between the process you went through and the ED. There are A LOT of chemical/physical and mental changes that go on, right? (And no, I'm not about to suggest it's all in your head. :H That pisses me off more than any other single thing around here. oy.)

I write all this for a couple of reasons. The first is, as you know, Ed had problems with that before HDB.
Then when he started drinking less and started taking more bac, he went to the other extreme. Then that all settled down, but he began experiencing it again, sporadically. You had posted about it (thank you!) and we had exchanged PMs about it, and the thought of it lasting for a long time was...disconcerting.
I wanted to get to the bottom of it. There's almost as much (mis)information about ED as there is about...well, everything else. My conclusion was that if it became an ongoing issue for him, we'd head to the doc for a full round of "well, what can it be?" Because for us there wasn't any question that he would continue taking the HDB.
ED is (like so much else) a function of the ankle-bone is connected to the leg-bone and the leg-bone is connected to the knee-bone...Ya know? I'm glad (relieved!) you are going to get a full work up. I don't think (at this point) baclofen is going to be relevant, in terms of what your doctor is going to look at for reasons and solutions. Simply because you've been off of it too long. I DO think that there is a reason, and hopefully you can figure it out from the blood work and not with a ($$$) visit to an endocrinologist.

But back to your questions! The doc is likely to raise an eyebrow, or give a tsk tsk, about the HDB. But baclofen is pretty innocuous and you're not taking it any more and you're stone cold sober. If he's an ass about it, fire him. Seriously. You will be grateful you did. (If he doesn't see the benefit, and sees you or treats you as a drug seeking ex-alkie with mental issues, he's not likely to look for solutions with a whole heart. Right? He'll likely ship you off to a shrink and not an endocrinologist.) If he dismisses the bac as having anything to do with it, that's fine. If your blood tests come back with a reason, you'll have a solution. (HBP, hormone levels. lordy, Bminor, just about everything.)

If the physical comes back without any offer of a solution, THEN you can address what changed when you started taking HDB. Right? Because it's not about what the baclofen caused or exacerbated. It's about how to fix it. Am I being clear? I feel like I'm talking in circles. Which means I should edit and then sign off. But I don't have time. And you asked.

You'll find a solution. And then chickadees beware!

Ok, Thank you so much Ne- sorry for the late reply. Crazy day at work yesterday and long night out with friends... (me not drinking of course) and then having to go pick up my drunk girlfriend at 3 am... grrrr...

Ok so just say this: "I was on HDB protocol from a shrink in Chicago" and basically explain why right?? The doc could be an ass I guess, I've never seen the dude as I never go to the doctor (shame on me right? lol) Anyway... I know that no one thinks Bac caused my issue, and I understand that. It's just that I know my body so well and... I digress. Clearly I could be wrong. I just want answers lol. I have insurance so hopefully they can run every blood test known to cause ED in men and figure out what the hell is going on down there. I'm only 31 for fu**'s sake!! lol. Are endocrinologists considered "specialists" in some way and not covered by normal means of insurance in the US? I'm kind of clueless on that.

Thanks for your kind words about the not drinking thing. Yeah, totally over it. I just kind of knew. Last night was another affirmation, seeing girls puking and feeling miserable. Is a few hours of "perceived" pleasure really worth the poison? for me... HELL NO.

[Bminor]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

GingerDust;1296111 wrote: Minor, I think Ne is right. It sounds like a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" situation. If you've been off the baclofen for four months, it's probably a coincidence that the ED began after you'd started HDB, rather than the baclofen causing it. ED is a very common problem as men age, and lots of men get treated for it. As far as your doc goes, tell him you were on a high-dose baclofen protocol through a shrink in Chicago. The protocol worked but this ED thing happened during that process. I doubt your doc is going to point the finger at baclofen (since you've been off it for so long) or grill you about Dr. L.

Congrats on being AF! It is truly life-changing. I hope your doc and you get the rest sorted out.

Ginger,

Thanks... and yeah I hear you but like I said, I'm not THAT old lol. I mean from the first week of expiremental dosing with bac... in May of 2010 I noticed a change in being able to achieve erection. That was only on like 100mg a day too. anyway, who knows... Thanks for the advice both of you... Doctors work for US right? We should be able to tell them the truth and have them try to help us.

[RedThread12]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

Great to see you, B. I think I've read everything you've ever posted, but I'm not sure if we've ever "talked." Halleluja on the AF'ness!!

About the other . . . I really dunno'. Call me weird, but my first questions would be of a bigger scope than "what's wrong with me?" What's your situation? Are you married? Are you in a monogamous relationship? Are you dating? (in a whisper, she asks, are you picking up chicks on the street?) I would just be interested to understand the context in which this "issue" has . . . omg, I was going to say arisen, but I guess I have to say, failed to arise.

Yes, I truly hope you get information appropriate help from the medical world. I'm 55 now - old, discouraged and cynical about all of that. But I am NOT cynical, nor discouraged, about the situation you're describing in your life.

Oh, wait a minute. What's wrong with ME?!? You've kind'a answered my questions. You had to pick you're drunken girlfriend up from a bar at 3:00 am? After a stressful day at work? Is this the woman that you are calibrating the measurement of your vital life force around? Hmmmmm . . . .

I really just remembered that, as I was writing to say that, IMO, and IME (in my experience), we ALL require a whole lot of "right" conditions for sex to be fully satisfying. Myself, I would look there, first. Women have it a lot easier, actually, in these circumstances. :blushing:

[Bminor]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

RedThread12;1296966 wrote: Great to see you, B. I think I've read everything you've ever posted, but I'm not sure if we've ever "talked." Halleluja on the AF'ness!!

About the other . . . I really dunno'. Call me weird, but my first questions would be of a bigger scope than "what's wrong with me?" What's your situation? Are you married? Are you in a monogamous relationship? Are you dating? (in a whisper, she asks, are you picking up chicks on the street?) I would just be interested to understand the context in which this "issue" has . . . omg, I was going to say arisen, but I guess I have to say, failed to arise.

Yes, I truly hope you get information appropriate help from the medical world. I'm 55 now - old, discouraged and cynical about all of that. But I am NOT cynical, nor discouraged, about the situation you're describing in your life.

Oh, wait a minute. What's wrong with ME?!? You've kind'a answered my questions. You had to pick you're drunken girlfriend up from a bar at 3:00 am? After a stressful day at work? Is this the woman that you are calibrating the measurement of your vital life force around? Hmmmmm . . . .

I really just remembered that, as I was writing to say that, IMO, and IME (in my experience), we ALL require a whole lot of "right" conditions for sex to be fully satisfying. Myself, I would look there, first. Women have it a lot easier, actually, in these circumstances. :blushing:

Hey Red,

Yeah, I've been in a relationship for a few months with a great girl. I don't mind that she drinks and she knows my story and is cool with me not drinking... she honestly thinks my story is incredible and she thinks it's great that I have no desire to drink. Her dad is an alcoholic so she finds me fascinating after hearing about my binge drinking past nearly killing myself with the stuff and now I just don't touch it.

Anyway, I don't think its SUCH a stretch to think that Bac has possibly changed something in my brain that is directly related to the pathway to achieve erection. We ALL know it changes our brain chemistry right? Look at all of us who went from complete wino's to teetotalers in a matter of months. It obviously works on some sort of pleasure pathway on the GABAb receptor (I'm obviously no scientist). I was single and in a bad place when I started taking baclofen. Not a chronic masturbator by any means but, ya know... I'm a dude. After I received my first shipment of baclofen back in may of 2010 I started my journey. Within the first week, I noticed that things were different down there. lack of feeling, harder to get fully hard etc... I blew it off and didn't care because I was single and jobless at the time and depressed as shit anyway. I continued my upward taper and eventually hooked up with Levin and was single for a LONG time. It's embarrassing, but I didn't have sex for 2 years. Boom, there I said it :upset: FAST forward to August 2011 I've been sober for almost a year and I land my perfect job and get to move back to the city I want to be in. December 2011 I stop Baclofen because I feel I can. Sexual function (only through self tests lol) got a little better being off Baclofen, Then in January of this year I met my girlfriend. I've had to use research chem cialis to have sex with her every time. I've explained my issues to her and she is very understanding... I mean as understanding as she can be... it's a lot to take in. I'm at the point where I just need to find out what is going on. I'm 31 and in very good physical shape. I lift weights and workout regularly. I'm just sick of this problem.

wow... Sorry for the novel. Drinking strong coffee right now.

[terryk]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

From Side effects of chronic intrathecal ba... [Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI :

RESULTS:

"Libido and the ability to obtain psychogenic or reflexogenic erections were not modified. However, eight patients reported a decrease of erection rigidity and/or duration. Ejaculation was possible in three cases before implantation. It disappeared in two patients, and was more difficult to obtain in the last one. It reappeared after treatment withdrawal. No differences were found between multiple sclerosis and spinal cord injured patients."


"Intrathecal baclofen may compromise erection and ejaculation. This effect is reversible. Patients should be informed of this effect."


(note: obviously in our cases we are not taking intrathecal/spinal infused baclofen)


This issue has come up before and I've searched the literature and educated myself a bit about the subject.


Erectile dysfunction can have physiological or psychological causes.

Baclofen is known to exert inhibitory effect on the sexual function on man and animals.

The effect could be the result of baclofen's action directly at the spinal site responsible for erectile function, or possibly through the modulation of other (chemicals?) neurotransmitters in the brain/body (i'm going to guess it's the first thing).

Baclofen is used to treat priapism, I believe it is also mentioned as a possible cause of priapism.

From a quick look at the information out there, it looks like it is improbable that baclofen can have a (long) lasting effect on erectile function. One possibility could be injury could by a baclofen induced priapism or some other vascular/nerve damage that could have happened while you were sleeping? (I know that I've woken up with my arms and legs very "asleep" and paralyzed with pins and needles in a panic wondering if I was going to regain feeling in them - this too, I think is a reach for an explanation).

And easy way to rule out physiological causes of ED (as opposed to psychological) is to check for the presence of nighttime erections. Men with healthy erectile function should have them regularly during their sleep cycles (sometimes/often waking up with them).

From Nighttime Erections | Test for Erectile Dysfunction | How to do a Nocturnal Erection Test | Prostate.net :

How to do the Nocturnal Erection Test

The test is usually done over three nights using a strip of four to six postage stamps.

The strip of stamps is wrapped around the shaft of the penis and moistened to seal the ring. When the stamp has dried, you should place your penis carefully inside your shorts that are worn to sleep in to help protect the stamps from falling off.

In the morning, check to see if the stamp ring has been broken along the perforations. If the tearing of the stamps awakens you during the night, check for an erection and how rigid the erection is. The test should be repeated until three nights of comfortable, uninterrupted sleep is achieved.

(I wonder if you can still get rolls of moisten-to-stick stamps?)

Otherwise you should have your doctor check your blood pressure, your testosterone/prolactin/luteinizing and thyroid hormone levels, and he/she can possibly order an ultrasound or Nocturnal penile tumescence test.

Hope this helps, and if I have any more ideas, I'll let you know.

-tk

p.s. TMI, yeah, I know - grow up.

[Bminor]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

terryk;1297351 wrote: From Side effects of chronic intrathecal ba... [Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 1998] - PubMed - NCBI :

RESULTS:

"Libido and the ability to obtain psychogenic or reflexogenic erections were not modified. However, eight patients reported a decrease of erection rigidity and/or duration. Ejaculation was possible in three cases before implantation. It disappeared in two patients, and was more difficult to obtain in the last one. It reappeared after treatment withdrawal. No differences were found between multiple sclerosis and spinal cord injured patients."


"Intrathecal baclofen may compromise erection and ejaculation. This effect is reversible. Patients should be informed of this effect."


(note: obviously in our cases we are not taking intrathecal/spinal infused baclofen)


This issue has come up before and I've searched the literature and educated myself a bit about the subject.


Erectile dysfunction can have physiological or psychological causes.

Baclofen is known to exert inhibitory effect on the sexual function on man and animals.

The effect could be the result of baclofen's action directly at the spinal site responsible for erectile function, or possibly through the modulation of other (chemicals?) neurotransmitters in the brain/body (i'm going to guess it's the first thing).

Baclofen is used to treat priapism, I believe it is also mentioned as a possible cause of priapism.

From a quick look at the information out there, it looks like it is improbable that baclofen can have a (long) lasting effect on erectile function. One possibility could be injury could by a baclofen induced priapism or some other vascular/nerve damage that could have happened while you were sleeping? (I know that I've woken up with my arms and legs very "asleep" and paralyzed with pins and needles in a panic wondering if I was going to regain feeling in them - this too, I think is a reach for an explanation).

And easy way to rule out physiological causes of ED (as opposed to psychological) is to check for the presence of nighttime erections. Men with healthy erectile function should have them regularly during their sleep cycles (sometimes/often waking up with them).

From Nighttime Erections | Test for Erectile Dysfunction | How to do a Nocturnal Erection Test | Prostate.net :

How to do the Nocturnal Erection Test

The test is usually done over three nights using a strip of four to six postage stamps.

The strip of stamps is wrapped around the shaft of the penis and moistened to seal the ring. When the stamp has dried, you should place your penis carefully inside your shorts that are worn to sleep in to help protect the stamps from falling off.

In the morning, check to see if the stamp ring has been broken along the perforations. If the tearing of the stamps awakens you during the night, check for an erection and how rigid the erection is. The test should be repeated until three nights of comfortable, uninterrupted sleep is achieved.

(I wonder if you can still get rolls of moisten-to-stick stamps?)

Otherwise you should have your doctor check your blood pressure, your testosterone/prolactin/luteinizing and thyroid hormone levels, and he/she can possibly order an ultrasound or Nocturnal penile tumescence test.

Hope this helps, and if I have any more ideas, I'll let you know.

-tk

p.s. TMI, yeah, I know - grow up.

TK- Awesome and informative. Thank you so much! I do occasionally wake up with "morning wood" so I am capable... It's just so strange lol. I'll just shut up about it until I've gotten my test results back and talked to a doctor about the issue. Thank you to everyone for the support and feedback it's sincerely appreciated!!!

Really great post TK, thanks for taking the time!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

stamps.

:H

Yep. I'm laughin'. I read the stamp thing a while back and was pretty amazed that nobody'd come up with something a little more...advanced. A little less...adhesive.

I never did finish the story, I guess. Which is that pot had a good deal to do with it. I'm not even sure he knows that...

...Deleted content...


You might need a specific recommendation/reason to see an endocrinologist. My experience is that they only like the ones with something really messed up going on.
I'd just leave it to the doc, B. Tell him the story in a nutshell. No need to tell him your doc is out of town, if you don't want to. Shrinks and G.P.s don't really talk the same language. "I drank like a fish (or whatever) and so I took Xmgs of baclofen for X amount of time. I noticed it when I first started taking it, but needed to quit drinking first. I have been off of booze for X months, and off of baclofen for X months, and I still have this problem."

Short. Sweet. No distraction from the problem at hand.
Fill him in on other meds and supps, too. (important!)

I'm glad you've got a lucky girl. And I'm glad (relieved!!!) that you are finally going to go to the doctor. A routine physical is not such a bad idea. (For any of us.)

btw, going to delete most of this in a day or so, when I remember.

[RedThread12]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

Thank you, TK. I heart what you bring to this forum . . . our lives . . . my life. I have more to ask, say, and learn about bac and sexual function, but am not sure where to start. Guess I'll find out what you learn from the medical realm, B, and see if there's anything I can add that would be helpful.

In the meantime, ask your girlfriend to go to bed with you very early, and take advantage of the morning wood.

Sorry, I'm lmao here. True story: I have a friend who, as City Engineer, received plans for a housing development that the builder had titled "Morning Wood." Suffice it say that that morning's City Council meeting was full of hearty chuckles.

[ifulovelife2]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

Hey B, I wanted ask about the Cialis. That works to help maintain an erection, so you can get them but they don't last without the drug? Is that the case?

Anyway, thanks for bringing this to the forum; it's a subject close to my heart. Well, not that close actually, about 2 feet away, except sometimes when it's more like 1 and a half feet away. OK, sorry for the childish joke.

[Bminor]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

Ne/Neva Eva;1297496 wrote: stamps.

:H

Yep. I'm laughin'. I read the stamp thing a while back and was pretty amazed that nobody'd come up with something a little more...advanced. A little less...adhesive.

I never did finish the story, I guess. Which is that pot had a good deal to do with it. I'm not even sure he knows that...

...Deleted content...


You might need a specific recommendation/reason to see an endocrinologist. My experience is that they only like the ones with something really messed up going on.
I'd just leave it to the doc, B. Tell him the story in a nutshell. No need to tell him your doc is out of town, if you don't want to. Shrinks and G.P.s don't really talk the same language. "I drank like a fish (or whatever) and so I took Xmgs of baclofen for X amount of time. I noticed it when I first started taking it, but needed to quit drinking first. I have been off of booze for X months, and off of baclofen for X months, and I still have this problem."

Short. Sweet. No distraction from the problem at hand.
Fill him in on other meds and supps, too. (important!)

I'm glad you've got a lucky girl. And I'm glad (relieved!!!) that you are finally going to go to the doctor. A routine physical is not such a bad idea. (For any of us.)

btw, going to delete most of this in a day or so, when I remember.

Good plan Ne- That's exactly how I'm going into this visit. You summed it up perfectly, and again, I offer you my thanks. There is no need for the Dr. to know who my Psych is... I never even thought of that lol :bang:bang I will certainly let everyone know how it all plays out. My appointment isn't until May 2nd though.

[Bminor]

4 months Baclofen free... still have E.D.

ifulovelife2;1297871 wrote: Hey B, I wanted ask about the Cialis. That works to help maintain an erection, so you can get them but they don't last without the drug? Is that the case?

Anyway, thanks for bringing this to the forum; it's a subject close to my heart. Well, not that close actually, about 2 feet away, except sometimes when it's more like 1 and a half feet away. OK, sorry for the childish joke.

Yeah, the Cialis helps you get an erection and maintain it... but once it's out of your system, you're back to limp land. Oh, and I thought your childish joke was funny!!!

SO... are you having the same problem? Is it baclofen related? I'm trying to collect as much empirical evidence for myself on this subject... purely for my own curiosity. I've talked to a handful of others who I KNOW suffer from the bac induced ED. I however, am the only one I currently know of who has quit bac and still suffer from it.