Dilemma Time

[bdd35]

Have been a lurker for a few years and now, considering the severity of my problem, have decided to post. I'm a serious drunk and have been for over 25 years, despite my achievements, a couple of masters degrees, a reasonable resume, etc, etc. I have a big time problem. When I read Dr. A's book I was head over heels with enthusiasm, for here was a medical professional as well as a drunk who understood what we all are dealing with. So I ordered some baclofen, slowly titrated, hit my switch and was sober for one month. Could never find the right dosage to deal with anxiety levels to return to sobriety. Two years later and many drunken episodes later, I decided to try again. Here's the problem, I'm presently at 290mg baclofen per day and am having a terrible time dealing with my extremely stressful job, which require mucho decision-making and lots of face-time with people while on this heavy dosage. Someone even asked me the other day "Are you alright?." Not to mention my snoring so loudly my wife is sleeping in the next room to get away from me. And I usually don't snore! Not sure I can continue, don't know what to do if this doesn't work.

[bacinblack]

Dilemma Time

I suggest you ask the professional

I think it's time you asked the professional, Dr. Fred Levin, about what daily dose will work for you to curb the anxiety. His office number is (312) 236-6675. I'm also sure that he would like to hear your story, for research purposes. He can help.

[GolfMonster]

Dilemma Time

Baclofen

x

[ignominious]

Dilemma Time

Hi Golf
I'd suggest sticking it out. Really depends on how much Al is interfering with your life, how you define yourself AND how you want to define yourself in a few years time.
Someone, at work, asked if I was on heroin: I just gave them a wry smile and moved away. Frankly I've been much less compos mentis and they haven't worried. Let them puzzle about it, they'll probably assume that you are hungover or half drunk. In a couple of weeks or so you can prove how mistaken they were!
Good luck whatever you decide.

[RobinJ]

Dilemma Time

I agree with ignominous. If possible, and if your decisions do not affect health, life & safety, keep going until you hit the switch. If someone asks you what is wrong, just tell them you are taking a new medicine which has side effects. At what level did you hit your switch the first time? Another suggestion, if possible, is to take time off to focus on working towards your switch. It just seems as though you have worked so hard in trying to beat this addiction.

[GolfMonster]

Dilemma Time

Baclofen

x

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Dilemma Time

bdd--I'm not sure what to suggest based on the info.
How much the first time? Why did you stop?

What else are you doing?
How much are you drinking?
Are you sleeping?

If you're looking for solutions for what ails, you'll have to be a bit more specific. If you want encouragement to keep going, I've got it and I'll give it. You won't believe it. I still don't.

If you want to know when it's going to end... I've got no specifics for you. But it does.


Ig! Really? Wow. yay! Hi.

GolfMonster;1297478 wrote: Thanks for the advice guys. I could buy what you are saying, but the stark reality of these drugs is that the true scientific evidence of how effective they are is pretty marginal. The placebo controlled trials done to date may have been able to demonstrate statistically significant treatment effects, but when you actually look at the magnitude of that treatment effect, the effect is pretty modest (10-20% reduction in consumption at best). Of course, this ignores those individuals who are convinced they work.

The evidence for Baclofen in current drinkers wanting to reduce consumption is even weaker - 2 single case reports (one of which was Dr A). For scientists that is called n=2. I understand properly designed placebo controlled trials are underway, and I eagerly await the results.

I decided to give baclofen a try despite the n=2, but the side effects were seriously affecting my quality of life (i.e ability to work). It came down to what is the lesser of the 2: baclofen side effects or the stigma/difficulty of having to deal with abstinence. If solid/robust evidence for baclofen actually existed, I may have persisted longer with the side effects in the hope the switch would be eventually turned off........

Thanks again for your interest guys. I just think the starter of this thread will benefit from my experience in terms of helping him decide what he is going to do now.

Point 1, that the statistics are 10-20% reduction in drinking. Absolutely not true. I'd point them out, but would rather just have a discussion about it, if you are interested in where and when and how the research has been done.

Far from correct. We have a thread full of information about studies related to baclofen.

I'm sorry it didn't work as well as you'd hoped. I'm glad you've decided to continue the fight. Hopefully golf (or any other hobby/lifestyle change) will be more efficacious for you. It has been for many people.

I would agree that it is important for people to hear from all of us--those it has and those it has not worked for. But it is absolutely vital that correct information be shared when it comes to facts. I'm sure you'd agree.
Cheers!
Hang in there, bdd.

[GolfMonster]

Dilemma Time

Baclofen

x

[BillF]

Dilemma Time

Similar discussions in the past didn't lead anywhere, and I suspect that this will also end up the same way. The problem is that people who get better siincerely believe that their treatment of choice works superbly, and nothing will convince them otherwise. That is true for baclofen, TSM, and ,yes, AA. The PC view in forums like this is that everything works for someone sometime, so accept them all. Of course, this is scientifically ridiculous, but -again- this is a primarily a support group.

Studies of *every* treatment modality have shown only weak effects. The approved meds of Campral and naltrexone (non-TSM) both have a NNT of about 9. There is no evidence for TSM at all, though the recent large studies of the similar drug nalmefene show a mild effect. There is absolutely no good evidence for high-dose baclofen.

Confounding studies are that study participants are self-selected (they want to treat their alcoholism), and that they get intervention by interacting with the investigators (including medical personnel). Most studies using *any* intervention show the placebo group has a success rate of 50%, which obviously is not realizable in real life. (as an example of the disconnect of study conditions from real life, nicotine patches which work so well in studies have been shown to be useless in real life usage.)

On a practical level about baclofen, it sounds like you are a high-functioning alcoholic. You probably show up occasionally with a hang-over, but you are not drunk on the job. With HDB, you are chemically affected 24/7. Depends on your job. If you are a mid-level manager in a secured position who can nap in your office, go for it. But, if you are in a professional or client-intensive position where you are watched all the time, then you are jeopardizing your career.

You can take a leave of absence and just go for the "switch", but then you are supposed to stay a high dose forever. What is the cognitive cost for those on HDB? Can you guys take an online IQ test or psychomotor test? (I know they are scientifically invalid.) It may worth a go except there is no proof that HDB works. Amiesen doesn't work as a doctor, and I don't think he did when he went on his HDB experiment. Dr. L. is a well-meaning nice guy, but he really doesn't have a clue (95-99% success rate, no SE, really?)

Anyways, all this discussion will die out in a week, if not censored. Good news: many alcoholics improved by just wanting to get better (no meds, no AA, no no therapists). Best of luck to you.

[terryk]

Dilemma Time

GolfMonster;1297478 wrote:
The evidence for Baclofen in current drinkers wanting to reduce consumption is even weaker - 2 single case reports (one of which was Dr A). For scientists that is called n=2. I understand properly designed placebo controlled trials are underway, and I eagerly await the results.

Complete and prolonged suppression o... [Alcohol Alcohol. 2005 Mar-Apr] - PubMed - NCBI
Baclofen suppresses alcohol intake an... [J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI
Suppression of symptoms of alcohol d... [Alcohol Alcohol. 2007 Mar-Apr] - PubMed - NCBI

And then there's this:
High-dose baclofen for treatment-resi... [J Clin Psychopharmacol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI

n > 2 (maybe not by much right now)

Ne/Neva Eva;1297509 wrote:
Point 1, that the statistics are 10-20% reduction in drinking. Absolutely not true. I'd point them out, but would rather just have a discussion about it, if you are interested in where and when and how the research has been done.

Far from correct. We have a thread full of information about studies related to baclofen.

GolfMonster;1297520 wrote: Hey NevaEva!

I'm all for correct information on these potentially mind altering drugs. You say I don't have my facts right.....

Could you just provide me with a reference or link to one published placebo controlled trial that has shown that baclofen significantly reduces consumption in active drinkers?

The only "positive" study I am aware of was from Italy and conducted in users with established cirrhosis - the main study outcome was successful abstinence and more patients on baclofen maintained abstinence compared to those given placebo.

I'd love you to prove me wrong on this one - for the sake of all the followers of this site.


xxhttps://www.mywayout.org/community/images/smilies/thanks.gif

Neva didn't say she was referring to published results of a RCT, we all know there aren't any yet.

But there certainly are studies, reviews, and case reports like: Abstinence and 'Low-Risk' Consumption 1 Year... [Alcohol Alcohol. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI , not to mention the wealth of anecdotal evidence on MWO recounting successes (and failures) of baclofen.

Maybe 5% of it was out there and available when I found baclofen, MWO, and titrated up and cured my alcohol problem just over two years ago. It works for me because baclofen works, not just because I *think* it does. Baclofen probably wont work for everyone, and I'm sorry it hasn't worked for you. I wish you the best in your recovery and your future, and golf sounds like a great idea. -tk

[bdd35]

Dilemma Time

Thanks

Appreciate all the responses and guidance. I told myself that I would continue on the baclofen up until 300mg. Which would be for another week. I can't take the somnolence, spacy periods, psychotic moments, snoring and other zombie-type side-effects that go with the bac. In my job I need to be alert, attentive and clear-eyed. It's tough to be this way on anything more that 120mg of bac. Not sure what I will do when I titrate down from 300mg, but I know I can't continue to go up and keep my job. What is more important? Well, I guess it's my job and sanity at this point. I wish I would hit my switch but I haven't and the side-effects are too great and debilitating to continue.

[bdd35]

Dilemma Time

One other thing

I read where many of you, including Dr. A, felt an immediate ease of anxieties once on baclofen, I've never felt this. I've never stopped or limited my drinking, save one brief period, because of baclofen. For some reason, it hasn't worked for me, for the most part. I truly, truly, wish it did. I want to believe it with all my heart. For those success stories, a tip of the hat to you. I'm jealous. But I don't think this is answer for me and I can't take handle the side effects.

[BillF]

Dilemma Time

terryk;1297533 wrote:


>

Maybe 5% of it was out there and available when I found baclofen, MWO, and titrated up and cured my alcohol problem just over two years ago. It works for me because baclofen works, not just because I *think* it does. Baclofen probably wont work for everyone, and I'm sorry it hasn't worked for you. I wish you the best in your recovery and your future, and golf sounds like a great idea. -tk

I am glad that baclofen worked for you, just like TSM, or vitamins, or AA worked for many others. XX works for some, prob. not for everyone, and there are Googled studies about it.

I think the big down side from all your baclofen-pushing is that people suffer real harm (at work, desperate hope, pschotic episodes, high anxiety). In fact, your own behavior on this forum would suggest extreme caution using this remedy.

[redhead77]

Dilemma Time

BillF;1297529 wrote:
What is the cognitive cost for those on HDB? Can you guys take an online IQ test or psychomotor test? (I know they are scientifically invalid.) It may worth a go except there is no proof that HDB works. Amiesen doesn't work as a doctor, and I don't think he did when he went on his HDB experiment. Dr. L. is a well-meaning nice guy, but he really doesn't have a clue (95-99% success rate, no SE, really?)
.

I don't get it. Everytime I turn around, there's another one of you people (or are you the same one?), starting crap. I work in a job that doesn't allow a nap...for a good 12 hours most days. It also requires a large amount of critical thinking. Granted, I had to quit to do HDB (or maybe I just should have taken a LOA), but I was able to go back, and I still work in the same place I've worked in for over a decade. And I'm still on HDB. I'm no bac pusher, I'm fully aware of the SEs and the problems the drug may cause. I openly post about it. This is pretty much BS, though. If you don't believe in bac, and you don't want to do it, then you should be quiet. Otherwise, try it and then maybe post your experience, whether it's positive or negative.

[terryk]

Dilemma Time

BillF;1297563 wrote: I am glad that baclofen worked for you, just like TSM, or vitamins, or AA worked for many others. XX works for some, prob. not for everyone, and there are Googled studies about it.

I think the big down side from all your baclofen-pushing is that people suffer real harm (at work, desperate hope, pschotic episodes, high anxiety). In fact, your own behavior on this forum would suggest extreme caution using this remedy.
Hey Hey! J/Arsenic/Dustbin is back!

From: https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ml#post1279422

dustbin;1279422 wrote:

I should add: the responses by Terry K and others on chronic high-dose baclofen are not exactly normal. Can you guys take formal psychological tests (IQ, psychomotor, etc.) to assure us that long-term baclofen at 200mg+ are not cognitively detrimental?

BillF;1297529 wrote: What is the cognitive cost for those on HDB? Can you guys take an online IQ test or psychomotor test? (I know they are scientifically invalid.)

Does this mean you flunked your Optician's license exam and your mother has grounded you to the basement where you'll continue to harass us all summer from her computer?

You talk about my behavior? You're the one that's been banned! Repeatedly!

Why do you even come here? You'll get no rise from me, and I doubt you'll last long here before you're banned again. Have fun.

-tk

p.s. what a maroon......