Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

[GolfMonster]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

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[Cinders]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

I, too, am stymied at the attacks. I thought Golf's first post was well worded and very clear. It is good to share personal information about the various meds we discuss on MWO. I know that, for myself, every time I tried something and failed, it made me feel so badly that I even went further into drink. For those who are just starting, it is good to know that a chosen med may not work for them and perhaps help them avoid feeling so badly about it not working if that ends up being the case.

It is unfortunate that none seemed to help Golf enough to outweigh the SEs or even help with the alcohol issue at all. For that, I am very sorry, Golf and hope you find your next steps to AF put you on a good and clear path to recovery.

Cindi

[scot98]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

Oh dear! The meds section on this forum is quite something.

What Golfmonster posted in his original post was a very informative experience of trying various medications to try moderate his Alcohol problem, and well written too.

I can relate to his some of his experiences, notably naltrexone with the sinclair method, and also Baclofen. Neither worked for me, and baclofen was particularly difficult due to my job ,the side effects were pretty unpleasant to say the least!

Some of the posts in this thread have been downright nasty, nothing new really from what has gone on in the past. Hence why I read what I find informative from this site and rarely post.

Thanks for posting your experience golfmonster, and I sincerely hope you get the sobriety you yearn for, with or without help from this forum! Enjoy the Golf!

Best wishes to you

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

I am very sorry!

Golfmonster,
I sincerely apologize for the following mean-spirited posts:

Ne/Neva Eva;1297698 wrote: OMG! Golfguy, You're...what'shisname???

Pulled from the other thread:



I sincerely doubt that, since it's been a couple of years and you're still looking for a way out. How's that treating you??? Boy, that bums me out for you. But I'm glad you're still around to...rain on parades. :H (sort of. Though I guess it's not really funny.)
I gotta go, but...(What was your original username? It's going to drive me crazy.) I'll be back.
Ne/Neva Eva;1297701 wrote: I wonder what would have happened had you just take the time off from your illustrious career to just get the job done, instead of diligently trying lots of different approaches during your (albeit extended) vacations?

Your reaction was completely understandable, and I'd like to offer an explanation, without any intention of excusing what I wrote to you on this thread.

I confused you with someone else who is currently posting. The things I attributed to you, and that I was reacting to, were not the thoughts that you expressed here. There are a couple of reasons for this. I have been cramming for exams, and simply skimming the new posts, which I do daily. I was sleep-deprived. (Not drunk. I don't get drunk anymore. Though I understand why you thought so! And again, I offer that as an explanation for my lack of clarity, not as an excuse for my response.)

I confused you with someone who used to be a member here. You'll know that from the PMs that I sent you. Most of our exchanges (37degrees was his username) were via PM so I can't share all of the similarities, but they are remarkable. He is a doctor. He tried all the medications, in succession, based on their efficacy in the research and the severity of the SEs. He loved golf. He took time off to try baclofen, but didn't follow through with the very plan he had set up to do it.
I know this seems like a stretch, but there is more! And much of it to do with point number one, which is that I confused you with another new poster who writes almost exactly like a poster with several other usernames, and is not a very nice guy. (Neither was 37degrees! And by his own admission!)
Finally, and you would not know this because you're new, there has been a bit of kerfuffle around here in recent months, much of it related to a couple of people who claim to be doctors/researchers/scientists. Much of it related to people posting erroneous, irrelevant, or just plain mean-spirited information. This gets my goat.

What is worse, the worst, though, is that I was snarky and rude to you. I sincerely and humbly apologize.
There is hope here. There is good information. And there are many options available to subdue all kinds of alcohol use disorders.
I am not a scientist. I'm just a woman who found a way out by taking gobs of baclofen and my goal is simply to offer support and information here. To pass on what I was so freely given. Without it, I'd still be drinking. I am very saddened that I offered you the opposite.

I read a lot about addiction and medications and treatments. I understand where you're coming from in terms of the treatments and the "success" in the conventional research. I'll have to get back to that tomorrow. Hopefully you're not gone for good.

As to the post you referred to that should have been flagged--I haven't read it, nor this thread in it's entirety. I will soon. I hope that it WAS flagged, and that administration just hasn't followed up. (Sometimes it takes some time.) I didn't do it, though. But I will if it's still here.

I am very sorry, for all of it.
Ne

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

Golfmonster,

I sincerely apologize for my mean-spirited posts.

As you may have figured out based on the private messages I sent, I confused you with a person (___) that used to spend a lot of time here. The similarities are uncanny.
Your profession, wine/wanting to be a social drinker, golf, the medications, the information about research, the time off from work...the list goes on. I would detail more of it, but much of it was shared via PM and so I need to hold it in confidence. Part of the reason it was shared via PM, for the record, is because he wasn't particularly welcome on the public forum because he was a pretty mean-spirited guy. Much like someone else who is posting. Which brings me to the next point.

I jumbled together your posts with the other person's.
I suspect that that person is, unlike you, not new around here. I know this to be the case, actually. And I completely understand if this gives you the impression that I am a paranoid harpy with a grudge and a pro-baclofen agenda!

While I didn't have to take any drastic steps that altered my personality in some profoundly positive way in order to get sober, I would like to think that I am not those things. Which is not to suggest that I don't have a lot I could work on to be...a better person.
I do not believe, for the official record, that baclofen is some sort of panacea. (It has been for me. But I didn't and don't have a demanding job and a family depending on my income. And it turns out that I don't have any other underlying fundamental disorders--though I know you might find that hard to believe! Again, I'm sorry for my snarky reaction.)

I don't think I'll have time today to respond about the science and research etc. It has moved to the top of my list, though, and I'll do my best. I am not a scientist. I just read a lot because of what I've learned here. Maybe some of it will help, or maybe you'll find the information or my conclusions worthless. Either way, I'd like to share what I've learned.

I would like you to know that there is hope here. And legitimate information. And support. I found all of that. My goal is simply to pass it on. I am mostly really, really saddened and very upset with myself that I jumped to conclusions and made you--someone looking for a way out--feel badly.

I hope you'll afford MWO another chance.

PS I will read this whole thread and follow up on your concern that a post was not reported and should have been.

[GolfMonster]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

Thank you

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[spacebebe01]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

Hope you have a great weekend with your kids

[windycitylady]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

GM, glad you waded (waited?) through the BS and are still around. Sorry, we can be a hot headed bunch. But we'll never be called boring! I'm going to try to post a link to Rational Recovery's "Bullets for Your Beast". It's a series of flashcard type screens that had a very profound effect on me. Hope you have a great time with your kids. Those are really fun ages.
Are you still considering bac/antabuse?

Rational Recovery from alcoholism, drug addiction, non AA, crank, meth

[windycitylady]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

Btw, ANYONE here can benefit from "Bullets for Your Beast." I strongly encourage anyone who's still struggling to check it out.

[GolfMonster]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

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[DizzyBee]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

Hi Golfmonster,

I read a bit of this post as I was looking for Spacebebe and I was a bit surprised to see people attack you like that. My experience on this site has been nothing but kind and loving. But I too came across a 'thread troll' who pretended to be a doctor and played with my head for two days before he tired of me so I can understand why people would be wary. Anyway, I'm really glad to see that the sting has been taken out of this thread.

Anyway, I'm really sorry to hear that Topa didnt work for you as its my magic bullet. As for your combination of AB and Bac, it must be working to some extent for you to continue with it. I am actually taking AB every second day too as I'm in the process of retraining my brain to not run to AL when I have a major high/low in my life. Topa took away my physical cravings but every time something really good or bad happens, I still have that urge. After a month or two I should be able to go off the AB as by then I should have some new coping skills but I'm pretty sure that as soon as I go off the Topa, the cravings will return.

Anyway, I just wanted to say that I wish you all the best. Enjoy the time with your kids. Its great being with our family when we're sober, isnt it? I used to hate visiting my family when I was drinking as I knew they could tell something was wrong but now I look forward to it.

All the best,
DB

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

More later...


Journal of Clinical Psychopharmacology:
June 2001 - Volume 21 - Issue 3 - pp 287-292
Articles
Targeted Use of Naltrexone Without Prior Detoxification in the Treatment of Alcohol Dependence: A Factorial Double-Blind, Placebo-Controlled Trial
Hein?l?, Pekka MD*?; Alho, Hannu MD, PhD*?; Kiianmaa, Kalervo PhD*; L?nnqvist, Jouko MD, PhD*; Kuoppasalmi, Kimmo MD, PhD*; Sinclair, John D. PhD*

Several studies have shown the opioid antagonist naltrexone to be effective when combined with psychosocial therapies for the treatment of patients who are dependent on alcohol with fixed medication and time (12 weeks). In this study, 121 nonabstinent outpatients with alcohol dependence (DSM-IV) were treated with sessions of cognitive coping skills (N = 67) or supportive therapy (N = 54) and either naltrexone 50 mg/day (N = 63) or placebo (N = 58) daily for the first 12 weeks and thereafter for 20 weeks only when craving alcohol (i.e., targeted medication) in a prospective one-center, dual, double-blind, randomized clinical trial. The dropout rate for all subjects was 16.5% during the first 12-week period and approximately twice that level by the end of the study. There were no significant group differences in study completion and therapy participation rates. After the continuous medication (12 weeks), the coping/naltrexone group had the best outcome, and coping/placebo had the worst. This difference remained during the targeted medication period (the following 20 weeks). Naltrexone was not better than placebo in the supportive groups, but it had a significant effect in the coping groups: 27% of the coping/naltrexone patients had no relapses to heavy drinking throughout the 32 weeks, compared with only 3% of the coping/placebo patients. The authors' data confirm the original finding of the efficacy of naltrexone in conjunction with coping skills therapy. In addition, their data show that detoxification is not required and that targeted medication taken only when craving occurs is effective in maintaining the reduction in heavy drinking.

I find it interesting that "coping skills" increased effectiveness, while "support therapy" had absolutely no effect, and in fact made the naltrexone use completely moot.
I haven't read the whole article. I just thought I'd throw out there anything I come up with (I'm writing a research paper that's only indirectly related to the topic at hand) that might give you some hope, Golfmaster, that there are many ways in which this thing can be done.

Not that you haven't settled on a good one!

(I also want to add that I have no interest in debating the merits of this particular study. Or naltrexone. Or coping. Or support therapy. Or anything, actually. I just mentioned that I came across a lot of information that belied the 20% figure I keep seeing bandied about. And I said I'd get to it yesterday! I didn't want you to think I'd forgotten. I just can't do more than this right about now...)
Cheerio!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

Last bit from me for today:

"Combined Pharmacotherapies and Behavioral Interventions for Alcohol Dependence"
JAMA: Journal of the American Medical Association; 5/3/2006, Vol. 295 Issue 17, p2003-2017, 15p, 1 Diagram, 12 Charts, 2 Graphs
Raymond Anton, lead researcher.

The article presents the details of a randomized controlled medical trial conducted to evaluate the efficacy of combined pharmacotherapies and behavioral interventions for alcohol dependence. The trial used two medications, naltrexone and acamprosate, along with combined behavioral therapies to treat alcoholism. The results showed that naltrexone both with and without combined behavioral therapies was efficacious while acamprosate proved to be noneffective when used alone or with combined behavioral therapies.

Huge study. Made quite a splash actually.

Peace out, peeps!

[windycitylady]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

I wouldn't do this (also not gonna lie, it's crossed my mind), but since BF takes whatever vitamins I give him, no questions asked, I could easily start slipping him naltrexone 1 hour before drinking each night. Not going to do it, it would be terribly unethical, but really, wouldn't that make for an interesting experiment?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Naltrex/Topa/Zonisamide/Baclofen all failed

:H yep.