I need advice

[krs]

I need advice

Amd regarding paxil. I'm still on it. I took one day off a week ago and that was it. My culprit is baclofen or Klonopin. Or my OCD rearing it's ugly head after killing it with Klonopin, Paxil, and booze.
But my work is now being affected. I cannot make rational decisions. Something needs to change.

[GingerDust]

I need advice

krs, I don't think anyone here is going to be able tell you that it's all due to the withdrawal, or it's all due to the baclofen, or that's the OCD. My opinion (I'm not a doctor and don't know anything about OCD or Klonopin withdrawal) is that high-dose baclofen has a reputation for causing sleep disruption and for making it very hard to think straight. My experience mirrored Windy's. At high dose, my anxiety was much worse on a high dose of baclofen and sleep was hard to come by. I did not feel well and it was hard to think straight. Others had those same problems, but the side effects eased over time. Frankly, it sounds like time is not on your side in this.

krs, there are other options if chasing the "switch" (which may or may not exist) is not working for you. A good many of us here did not stay at a high dose of baclofen because it was too disruptive to our work and our lives. A few of us are on a low dose of baclofen and using Antabuse to ensure that we don't drink. That's worked really well for me, but I don't have OCD and I'm not in Klonopin withdrawal. Others combine a lower dose baclofen with Naltrexone therapy and are having success with that. The best advice I can offer is what I said before. Try reducing your baclofen dose and see if you don't start to feel better and sleep better. If you are not alcohol free completely right now, quitting drinking will likely help you sort it all out too. My gut feeling is that whatever else you do, you need to somehow keep treating the OCD too, if you come to the conclusion that it is OCD that's causing you such misery. A couple people suggested seeing a doctor about that.

I'm sorry. I wish I had neatly packaged solution for you. If you cannot differentiate between the possible culprits that are affecting you, you have to understand that we have no way of knowing what is causing all your grief either. I hope you find some relief really soon. Hang in there.

[chigg]

I need advice

BillF wrote: I know everyone means well, but listing all possible side effects of a medication is useless. No doctor or nurse give a crap; they know the likely/significant effects.

I found the list useful. Those can be very scary SEs and knowing that these are all possible will help someone to stay calm while they decide the best way to address the symptoms whether it be consulting a nurse, scheduling an appointment for an OF, or heading to the ER. Thanks, RobinJ.

[windycitylady]

I need advice

Krs, I agree with Ginger. There's no simple solution here.
But if I HAD to guess what you should do....
I would go down a little on the bac. Very, very slowly. If you're already fragile and you go down to quickly, you're going to have a meltdown. Maybe decrease by 10 or 20 mg, wait 5 days at least, then do it again.
We keep saying "klonopin withdrawal", but maybe you just still need it at this point. I mean, if you were taking advil daily for a bad knee, stopped taking advil, and your knee hurt, you wouldn't call it advil withdrawal, would you? Again, were you abusing it, or taking it as prescribed? If you were abusing it, of course I don't suggest starting it again. But if you were taking it responsibly for many years, and it helped, maybe now's not the time to quit.
I do think the most important thing (and also maybe the most difficult) is to remember that this isn't who you are. The feelings you're having are very real, I know that better than anyone, but it's your brain acting up on you. You are a strong, intelligent person who is going to come out on the other side of this intact. Your brain's a physical organ, and it's confused right now and sending you the wrong messages. Unfortunately, our brains feel like ourselves, and it's up to you to tease apart what's real and what's not.
I wasn't kidding about abdominal breathing and progressive muscle relaxation. They were the only things that helped me when I was really struggling with overwhelming anxiety. I wasn't smart enough to exercise at the time. I know you have been, and you think it hasn't really helped, but keep it up. It does help.
Uh oh. Phone's gonna die!
Keep your head up, krs. We're here for you!

[spacebebe01]

I need advice

KRS what you are doing now obviously isnt working for you, can you see the doctor who prescribed the kklonopin and paxil to ask them about the withdrawals from klonopin. I am not a doctor but it also sounds like the dose of baclofen you are on isnt working for you either, maybe you should reduce it very slowly and see what happens I dont know if you have said but how did you feel when you where titrating up on the baclofen, and when did the problems start? Stay on the paxil tho the last thing you would want now is another load of withdrawals.

[RobinJ]

I need advice

BillF;1298285 wrote: I know everyone means well, but listing all possible side effects of a medication is useless. No doctor or nurse give a crap; they know the likely/significant effects.

Use common sense. If you feel like dying, go to the ER. They have immediate access to tests and treatments.

I was not listing the side effects for a doctor or nurse. I listed the side effects for her and anyone else who may see this page. But uhm thanks.
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Chigg you're welcome I'm glad you were helped by me listing the side effects :H

[Ne/Neva Eva]

I need advice

krs;1298567 wrote: One of these meds, baclofen or Klonopin withdrawal after 7 or 8 weeks is starting to effect my work. That I ALWAYS were I draw the line. That is why I started bac in the first place. Do I go up slowly on bac, or down? Please advise. If I go up, will this happen at every level? If I go down, the same question?
krs;1298571 wrote: Amd regarding paxil. I'm still on it. I took one day off a week ago and that was it. My culprit is baclofen or Klonopin. Or my OCD rearing it's ugly head after killing it with Klonopin, Paxil, and booze.
But my work is now being affected. I cannot make rational decisions. Something needs to change.

Hi again, K.

I am worried about you. As are several people, obviously.
Changing anything else may greatly exacerbate the problem. Even if the problem is related to the medications you are taking.

I have a friend who stopped taking ativan while on HDB. Then she stopped taking all the other meds that she'd been on for years. Then she stopped taking baclofen. Then she lost all hope.
She did not abuse the ativan. She took the same amount every day, for years. It helped her a great deal.
When she stopped sleeping is when things started to get really bad for her.
She started titrating down on baclofen in order to figure out if the baclofen was the cause of her hopelessness, chronic confusion, and insomnia.
It didn't help.
We begged her to restart the benzos. She eventually did, but by then she was already convinced that she would never get well, feel good, find a way out of her own personal hell. She could not stop the carousel of negative thoughts.

I have no way of knowing what or how the combinations of these things contributed to her hopelessness. I only know that her anxiety was palpable. And that her descent was fast and profound.

I hope that you will act immediately and find a physician locally who will help you right now. I don't mean to be dramatic or alarm you. I recognize, if you will, the things you are writing.
While a local physician is unlikely to have much experience with baclofen, and may encourage you to get off of it immediately, and may even be unwilling to prescribe for or treat your anxiety, it is important that you have medical help should you start to feel worse. I hope, too, there is someone you can talk to about all of this who can be your advocate.

Take good care of yourself. And please keep in touch.

[krs]

I need advice

Hey Ne--

Thank you for your kindness. My concern with the Klonopin (which is supposedly one of the worst) or benzos in general is how they led me to drink. Together with booze, they are a vicious little drug. The withdrawal was, maybe is sill, so nasty that I have a lot of trepidation starting them again.

I have slept, but I am still incredibly obsessive. I am also having trouble (as I mentioned) with rational thinking, but I also am not certain if this is temporary, or if I have always been this way. I know that sounds like OCD thinking, but this is what I am experiencing.

I reached out to an anxiety doctor/specialist via email, but I have no idea if he is the right fit. With Baclofen in the equation, I'm not sure who is. Can anyone on the site recommend someone for OCD/Anxiety in the NY area?

[RedThread12]

I need advice

Hi krs: I so wish I knew of a really good doctor, ANYWHERE, who really understands all of the neuro-transmitting pharmaceuticals, their interactions, and their applications for specific people (us) at specific times. But I don't.

How are you doing? It can be really confusing to sort out what is related to what. Not CAN BE, IS!!! But I think we baclofentists (that's a baclofen experimentist/scientist) also need to employ ODAAT thinking. One Day At A Time. Because every day IS different, with baclofen. And every dose level. And all the side effects. I've experienced and observed drastic changes in feeling, thinking, behavior, mind-set, etc., in less than one day - often.

It's easy to get caught in a "groove" where we see only one or two dimensions of what is happening. Of course, it is important to honor our experience in every way, but FEAR can rapidly compound an uncomfortable experience into an unbearable experience. This board is an incredible resource for helping you in that department. Lots of people have been through a lot, and even though they may no longer be posting, they watch, or some of us are in contact with them should their knowledge be needed. And krs, please so pm me if it feels as if being in more direct communication with someone would help you handle the anxiety a bit.

I started taking bac in Oct. '09, and have read pretty much everything that has come across the board having to do with it since then. You probably would not even believe some of the stories about what people have done in order to save their lives with baclofen. I barely do, and I was reading, or in email or phone contact with them or their families at the time. What I know is that it is a step-by-step process. Do one thing, see what the effect is, THEN decide about the next thing. All the time holding the context that we don't die from baclofen (there's a recent link in this thread to a French news report regarding this), but we do die from alcohol. And it's not a race. It's ODAAT (or one hour at a time).

Sending best wishes to you. I know you can find your way out.

[spacebebe01]

I need advice

Hi kts how are you feeling today?

I just wanted to say to you that I have major depression/bipolar, and sometimes I feel great, last week, and sometimes I feel crap, now. I have learnt that when I feel bad with depression for me its best to just kind of go with it, rest and I know it will pass by, I know this is me and I have cycles of moods and things may be different for you. I dont know how badly your OCD affects your live but what I am saying is if you are able to deal with it for a while the not worrying about it might help it get better..I dont know if I have worded this right or even if this is an option for you. For a long time I kept on trying to fight my depression, and was often advised to do so, to keep on going, to get up and get out etc etc and it would leave me totally exhausted and in an even worse state. It felt like I was trying to swim against the tide.

Keep posting and talking on here, it really does help

xx

[krs]

I need advice

Thanks again, all. So, today was interesting to say the least. I had one of the days you describe. Started off terribly, then I suddenly felt great for a few hours. I went to see a psychiatrist I've seen over the past few years off and on, and my day went south. In a nutshell, he's close to retirement age, refused to help with Baclofen, recommended I find someone else for it, and even discounted my experience with Klonopin withdrawal, saying that there is no way after two months I could have side effects, etc. All things I know to be false. Then the kicker came when he basically gave up and decided I must be schizophrenic. This is the second time in my life I'd been misdiagnosed with schizophrenia -- the first time was when I was 15, and the first psychiatrist asked if I believed some of the obsessions were true. I was 15, had no idea what OCD was, and so my therapist at the time pulled me from him.

The psychiatrist wrote me a script for a drug called Abilify. And the side effects on that drug are INSANE. He also discounted Zoloft, which a therapist friend on the west coast specifically asked me to be put on. The carousel seems to keep spinning out of control

But I am trying to adopt the one day at a time thinking, AND as I type all of this, I realize that this thread has morphed into a cyber AA. I now must go outside and have a virtual cup of coffee, smoke like a chimney, and become an insufferable prick.

On a positive note, I took Ne's advice, joined a gym, and did the stairmaster for 30 minutes. Let's see what happens.

I'll keep posting.

My name is KRS, and I'm a baclofen junkie.

[RedThread12]

I need advice

:H:H:H You're RIGHT!!!

(not slamming AA, but you certainly pegged the stereotype.)

[spacebebe01]

I need advice

Did you enjoy the gym krs, its great to find something you enjoy to spend your time, help you feel better and it will help you relax.

[krs]

I need advice

It did. And I slept very well. I had some "clarity" today. I'm looking to find a specialist to address helping me settle my brain down. But I am back today.

So, again thank you. When I finally meet with an addiction specialist, I guess the next thing I have a question about is what experiences with Low Dose Baclofen have you guys found. At around what dose does the anti-craving/anxiety still work, but where the SE's are much less. In particular, what dose of those on LDB did they find that SE's like Insomnia, Obsessive Ideation, Dizziness, and Cognitive "Fog" lessened?

Thanks again,

K

[spacebebe01]

I need advice

I take 50mg a day now and have no se's. I have been taking LDB for quite a while now and have not noticed any se's at all that I can remember BUT I dont have the suppresion that HDB gives. but I have significant lessening in craving and I have no desire to get drunk.

I am glad you slept well, that is a big part in getting well. Maybe the gym will be your "thing", I know it has helped a lot of people with our types of problems (depression,anxiety, OCD, bipolar, addiction, alcoholism etc etc).