Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Thanks for that. Feeling a little better this afternoon after some cleaning/laundry/keeping distracted. It'll be interesting to see what goes down with my doc--sent her an email re: anxiety/sleep problems.

She knows all about the bac, and would have prescribed

[COSGringo]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

I think the anxiety is more when you are going up. And funny thing is there are times when you might feel less anxiety. In certain social and business situations I would go through them and think to myself wow that would have normally made me nervous.
It helped me. But that may not have been an issue with you.

When you hit the switch I think you will be over the worst for the SE's but tough call. I hit horrible one's, went down, then realized I had hit my switch. It's hard to say I think.

How quick are you going up? Near the end I just did 10mg about every 5 days. I would not rush it. Let it happen and try not to binge. If you have to drink, drink but don't go overboard if you can help it. As you know you will regret it.

A lot of others have been through this. I can only relate how it worked for me. I was near wits end with the bac but then it happened. Just take your time. I had a problem for a long time so when I think back on it, it really was fast subjectively.

Stay with it if you can. Take it slow. Work on getting some sleep and try not to dwell on it although I realize that's close to impossible.

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

I was at 150 for quite a while, maybe 3 weeks to a month. Was doing 50/50/50, and now going up by adding a fourth dose. I have 25 mg tabs so going up by 12.5. Am at 187.5 now, and I think I got here pretty quickly from 150. Trying to remember, adding a bit every 3-4 days? Planning to put off the jump to 200 until Thursday, and that would make it a full week at my current dose before going up.

I know the evening/night time dose isn't ideal, I just want to hold off taking more than 50 at any one time as long as possible. The other thing is (and this is stupid) I'm not increasing evenly throughout the day--I'm just going up on that fourth dose. So right now I'm at 50/50/50/37.5

And trying to take it slow. I mean, reading some of the worst-case stories here is freaking me out more than a little.

Also, SEs are just a little weird. I don't have daytime somnolence. But I do have anxiety and headaches and feel wonky all day. By evening I'm really anxiousy and then at night the anxiety/insomnia is horrible, sleep is nearly impossible. We've discussed the dying/waking panic feeling. Ugh.

When I can finally get a couple hours of sleep I wake up feeling decent. The feeling in my head is one of my biggest concerns. I'm completely afraid to take my B/P. Particularly because of the recent drinking. I am also sure that's causing a lot of the anxiety problems.

So it's 8 pm here, had a couple drinks but nothing crazy last night and nothing yet today. And believe me, I understand how what I'm going to say next is the dumbest thing ever: I have a date tonight so will definitely have a couple of beers at least. But going to try to keep it under control. Anyway, that's my story--thanks for listening, everyone.

[COSGringo]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Not sure it matters but Dr L always said to take your biggest dose in the evening.
The insomnia might get better. Mine did in time but I still take meds to help me along.
I ticked off lately as I have had 2 attacks of gout within a few weeks and I thought now my drinking was behind me I was done with it.
I am worried it could be my kidneys as baclofen is disposed of via them rather than the liver.
Hang in there and take it slowly. Get something to help you sleep too. You need that.

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

NB: Please feel free to skim/ignore all of this. There aren't any real questions or anything, but it's 3 AM here and I'm just having a whole bunch of sleep anxiety/feeling like I'm gonna die/issues right now and typing helps.




Well, another night and another round of serious anxiety. Yay, fun! Even more fun: my student insurance is valid over the summer everywhere EXCEPT at the on-campus student health center where my MD is. $300 for the privilege of using my insurance at the school--I actually swore at the poor girl on the phone. Not bad, but an exasperated "you've got to be f*cking kidding me." So much for seeing my MD before this fall.

In other news, saw a psychiatrist today who I'd been referred to by the counselor I saw last semester. Not sure how this slipped through the cracks, but this guy isn't an addiction specialist, which I thought was the whole point of being referred to him.

Alas, he'd barely heard of baclofen and so wasn't really comfortable doing anything for me while I'm on it--I've really got to stop telling these people the truth. His plan, what he'd ideally like to do for me, should I come off bac entirely, is put me on 3,000 mg/day neurontin (gabapentin) , possibly naltrexone (not TSM but what he doesn't know wouldn't hurt him), and Prozac. This doesn't seem like a good plan to me, though a script for nal would be nice. Not really worth seeing him again if he thinks I'm going to come off the bac, but nevertheless scheduled a follow-up in August.

He did give me three 300 mg tabs of neurontin to take "1-2 at bedtime" to deal with anxiety and see what I think. Anyone have thoughts on this with HDB? Avoiding it tonight, but if it would help with anxiety and get me to sleep, that sure would be nice. Oh, and no chance for benzos, so it looks like my only anti-axiety med is whiskey, which is what I was trying to avoid.

And speaking of anxiety about falling asleep, bac is a muscle relaxant, and can cause hypoventilation. So this crushing tiredness, general weakness, and feeling like I'm going to stop breathing if I fall asleep--I'm not actually going to stop breathing if I fall asleep, right!? I mean, I'm right around 190 mg/day of bac and that's not chump change, but not enough for really shitty things to happen, at least from what I can gather. But man, I'm freaked out. I'm so tired, and all I want is to get a good night's sleep, but the experience, or even thought, of going to sleep is terrifying. I've had my share of full-blown panic attacks; this is a whole different level of scared.

There is good news, though, on the drinking front. Last night I had a few beers and shots while watching a hockey game. The only special at my favorite bar is a PBR with a free shot of tequila--so that's why the shots (and I hate tequila, especially their off-off-brand house tequila. Don't know what I was thinking). Anyway, was having fun and a good conversation with the bartender so I ordered one more than I'd intended, and after a few sips I looked at the beer and felt like I actually didn't want it. I still drank it, but that might be the first beer I've seen in front of me that I didn't want. When I got home I poured a drink, half out of habit and half out of terror at the sleep anxiety to come. But after I finished that I poured a glass of tonic water. Didn't even really think about it, that's just what I wanted--and there's more alcohol here. That's for sure the first time I've willingly poured something nonalcoholic after having anything alcoholic to drink. It's simply never happened before. Of course, I still had a sleepless night Google Mapping the closest emergency rooms and thinking about calling 911, and finally falling asleep around 7:30 this morning.

Today I had to pick something up from a friend's place after the psychiatrist. I'd planned on being AF today, but when he offered me a drink. I didn't hesitate. He made mint julips (weird, right?) and I sipped very slowly, probably taking twice as long to finish as he did. And I had zero craving for another drink after that. Sure, I'm thinking about those beers in the fridge, and habit tells me I should be drinking them. This anxiety is for sure telling me I should drink them. But I'm telling myself it's not a good idea, and that's that. I've gotta be close, right?

Anyway, I guess that's it. Thanks for being out there, everybody.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Morning, LA! I don't know how good your morning is after a couple of sleepless nights...Hopefully you'll be able to nap a little?

Manoman, sleeplessness is a bear of a burden. I'm pretty obsessive about my sleep now, much of it having to do with when I was titrating up and experienced insomnia and night terrors for the first time ever. It stops! Goes away! My sleep now is a gift. And you'll get here.
(Not the same kind of sleep as when I used to hide from the world in dreams, and spend as long as possible with my eyes literally and figuratively closed. Very different than that.)

So. I'm not sure what NB is but I'll take a stab at your questions.

No. You are not going to stop breathing. You just aren't. It won't happen. Not ever. I cannot stress this enough. It. Will. Not. Happen. I know it feels that way. And I know what the literature says. It still is not going to happen. Perhaps finding a way to distract your mind will help? It helped me. That and coming on here at all hours of the day and night...We've got peeps from all over the world, so there is usually someone awake.

Gabapentin...I have no personal experience with it, but boy, I think it might be a really, really good option. Ifulovelife is the one to ask about it and bac in combination, in terms of personal experience. I don't have a lot of scientific info about it either. I know some sordid details about the pharma company that had drug reps push it heavily for off label use. And I know it's very effective for neuropathy, especially alcoholic neuropathy. It's very interesting to hear that your pdoc is prescribing for anxiety. (terryk might be able to find some info related to the science behind it. you might send him a PM)

As for the pdoc, tell him to get off his ass and do the research. I mean, ask him politely to look into the information about baclofen and addiction. The science is there now. I understand his reluctance, but he should (and can) treat you regardless of, or because of the bac.

HDB pretty much causes anxiety and insomnia. (inmynotsohumbleopinion) Managing those two things is a bitch. But unless you are just going to power through and take the pills no matter what, it's a really good idea to have a plan to combat the two things. (They go hand in hand and feed off one another.)

Congrats on the drinking, or lack of wanting to drink!!! WOOOHOOOOOOOOOO! And yep. I'm pretty sure that's exactly what that means. You're close. It is happening! and will continue to happen. You will wake up one day and not want to drink. Pour yourself one, choke it down, and then be done. Forever. How cool is that?

[windycitylady]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

StuckinLA;1333996 wrote: His plan, what he'd ideally like to do for me, should I come off bac entirely, is put me on 3,000 mg/day neurontin (gabapentin) , possibly naltrexone (not TSM but what he doesn't know wouldn't hurt him), and Prozac. This doesn't seem like a good plan to me, though a script for nal would be nice.

Hey Stuck! I LOVE gabapentin, but 3000mg is a crazy high dose, especially to start out at. It probably would help with your anxiety, but I would start at 600mg/day in divided doses at the very most. Where did your doc get the number 3000?! I feel like most people take between 900 and 2400, 2400 even being rare. As far as SSRIs, paxil was the only one that I felt did anything for my anxiety as well as my depression. Everything else helped only depression. Once you've done a couple nights with gabapentin, try taking it in the morning. It has a relatively short half life, so if you're taking it and falling asleep (I guess that's assuming you're able to sleep), you might not be feeling all the benefits.
Benzos probably are your best bet for the crazy anxiety you're experiencing, but I understand not being able to get them. Neither am I. I do take buspar, a non-habitforming antianxiety med. It's relatively cheap. It doesn't have the dramatic effect of benzos, but it might help. When I was experiencing terrible HDB anxiety, I popped L theanine like crazy too. I took any and every supplement for anxiety and that was the only one that really seemed to have any effect.
If you decide to go down at all on the bac, do so VERY SLOWLY. Like crazy, crazy slowly. I was having anxiety and depression along with all the other se's at 225mg when I decided to go down. Going down too quickly (20mg every 4 days, I think) made my anxiety unbearable. I could barely function and did end up in urgent care because of panic attacks.
Congrats on the lessened drinking front! That's awesome! And, you're right, having access to some nal would be nice.
I hope you get some peace soon. Sleep and some terror-free moments here and there would make all the difference.

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Gosh, thanks NE, that was a great way to wake up. And totally my bad, NB means Nota Bene, or please note, and yes I'm weird like that... Too much time in school.

I'm waking up feeling pretty good, and functioning throughout the day, so really it's just that night time crap that I have to deal with. And I'm dealing as best I can, I guess. Hopefully with some sober/mostly sober time it will improve. It's funny that in the light of day I don't think it's that big of a deal, just something that will pass on its own (yeah, that's freaking hysterical).

Anyway, I have an appointment next week with a program that does both nal and LDB. We shall see 1) if my insurance will cover any part of that--if not I probably will cancel--and 2) if I just stay the f*ck quiet about the bac I'm already taking to try to get a script. I also have been in contact with a pdoc who does both nal and bac

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Hey Windy,

Not sure where he got the 3,000. I think because it's used that high to treat seizure disorders? Anyway, it's a GABA agonist so he doesn't see a difference between it and bac--but it's the little difference that makes all the difference, right?

Regardless, he didn't give me a script, just 3 pills to try. So that's only vaguely helpful at best.

As for the SSRIs, that's one road I really don't want to go down, and probably won't.

When it comes to bac, I'm doing everything slowly. Like 10 mg increments every 5-7 days. Though after my drinking patterns the last few days, as opposed to last week, I'm resolved to keep going up. I'll be at 200 starting tomorrow.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

StuckinLA;1334131 wrote: ...NB means Nota Bene, or please note, and yes I'm weird like that...
I'm totally stealing that.

StuckinLA;1334131 wrote: I'm waking up feeling pretty good, and functioning throughout the day, so really it's just that night time crap that I have to deal with. And I'm dealing as best I can, I guess. Hopefully with some sober/mostly sober time it will improve. It's funny that in the light of day I don't think it's that big of a deal, just something that will pass on its own (yeah, that's freaking hysterical).

I used to wonder which side to listen to. The one that started the day with a big, bright smile and a take-on-the-world attitude. Or the one that felt completely exhausted and foolish for believing in baclofen, sobriety, and the fact that things would get better, usually in the late afternoon.

(btw, now I'm self-conscious about every word I write 'round here. Whatever. No critiquing though!!!)

Seriously, the afternoons brought such a funk that I wondered if there was something really wrong with me (besides the obvious.) And the night terrors...I had NO IDEA. It's kind of like reading about restless legs syndrome...I don't get it. I will never get it. But I have an aunt who has it and she literally cannot sit still after a while. She can't sleep (the thing I am most obsessive about!) and she can't concentrate when she's been sitting a while. But night terrors? Holy shit. So. What're you doing about it? And how's it going?

I cannot stress enough how much being proactive helps. I maintain (and always will, probably) that xanax works wonders. But it has to be taken like medicine--meaning regularly and not in the middle of a panic attack. That simply doesn't work. Panic/anxiety/fear/terror build on themselves. As does insomnia.

Low dose (.25mg, 2x/day) is enough. [Nota Bene: If you're not taking baclofen, it's probably not a good idea. Furthermore, I am not a doctor, nor do I have any medical background.] I suggest this because everyone that has done it has found remarkable improvement. Generally I suggest it offline in PM because otherwise I might get a reaction from peeps that think I'm creating more addiction. Or something.

If you don't want to do the medicinal route (and I didn't, but wish I had!) then you can use the other stuff that we know works...Meditation/prayer/CBT etc. ***Benadryl was my friend and the only thing I took. Very silly in retrospect, but I was so scared about anything interfering with baclofen, or baclofen interfering with anything, that I avoided even NSAIDS. Silly chick that I was.

Good luck at UCLA. It does seem as though if anyone would get it, a huge educational medical complex with loads of resources and academics and research would get it. Not to mention open-minded, the way academics can be...Not to mention crazy Cali types. My impression is that baclofen is reserved for those who are desperate or desperately ill. (This from the stories I've heard about a couple of rehabs/docs that do use it.) I'm interested to see whether or not you tell on yourself. :H And what the reaction is either way.

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Thank you, as always, NE. I only have a moment so this will be necessarily brief. The past couple days have been OK, more or less. Went on a date the other night, something I haven't done in a while, and not to be too graphic but it ended up with something else I haven't done in a while. And that really helped.

I'm in this three-day, all-day training for a freelance job, so up early early early and sitting in a conference room all day. Man, nothing will help you sleep like that. So, yeah, a couple nights of OK sleep. Drinking is--remarkably--under control. A couple in the evening, mostly because I actually want to. I don't feel like I need it, and since I'm not drinking much I think the SEs are a little more manageable.

Anyway, I really do have to run and catch the bus. I'm glad you checked in on me, and I'll be around again more after this soul-crushing weekend.

Cheers.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

My pleasure as always, LA.

I'm a bit jealous about all your writing stuff. And then I remember that I hate doing what I love when other people want me to do it. Great way to ruin the joy, isn't it? To have deadlines and get paid and stuff. (I'm kidding a bit. Still fantasizing about being able to do that. In the meantime, I'm going to school for nursing and computer science so I can actually make a living!) (Someday!)

glad to hear about the drinking. It definitely affects the SEs. Very glad to hear about the sleep. (In this case, meaning taking baclofen, I think--just mo--that the sleep might matter as much or more than the drinking.) Hope the weekend wasn't actually soul-crushing! Do tell what it's like to make a living from words, will you? In all it's dreadful glory so I can move on...

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Wow. Nursing and computer science--that's a remarkable combination. I don't know what your plans are for those, obviously, but I seriously considered nursing school, as working registry at $40-$60/hr is pretty much the most perfect part-time job on this earth. Never managed to do it, though.

Making a living with the words isn't exactly overrated, but it certainly has it's moments of suck. When I said "freelance" it may have sounded too glamorous.

I do get to work in my pajamas, whenever I want. But I find myself getting actually dressed and sitting at my desk during relatively normal business hours anyway. I've always liked to have my evenings and nights free for, well, drinking. I haven't been able to write drunk in a long time. These days 2 beers is enough to make me give up for the night and watch 1/2 a season of _______ TV show on Netflix.

These days I think everyone's choices are the right ones for them. 'Cause if they're not it doesn't matter--we still have to deal with the consequences anyway. Or, as George Bernard Shaw put it, "take care to get what you like or you will be forced to like what you get." Anyway, this is already way too long. It's just that kind of morning, I guess. I look forward to hearing more about the nursing and compsci some day.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Reminds me of CSN's, "Love the one you're with."

Your post gave me much food for thought when I read it about an hour ago. And lit a fire so I could get out from under my general malaise and off of my general malass. I hope. I took a shower! And ate a hardboiled egg! And peanut butter. I think the egg has been around a couple of weeks, so if I disappear for a while, it's salmonella. But it's what I had in me. (Edit: Meaning I couldn't be arsed to make something, even boil a fresh egg. Not that I had the egg in me. I'm hoping they stink and turn green when they go bad...I'll know soon enough!)

We made a big decision about buying a house yesterday. I am not at all comfortable with marrying a house and that's what it feels like. Particularly this house. Maybe. It could just be the marriage part.

That was the explanation for this very random post, which purpose was to thank you for your thoughts. More from me about nursing and computers and saving the world (or whatever ) when I'm freaking out a little less!
:l at you.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Morning, LA.
I figured out when I was taking baclofen that keeping focused on the goal was really the only way to accomplish what I'd set out to do...In that case, the switch, sobriety and freedom.

Your post (and my responses to you) made me realize that I am anything but focused right now.

The nursing goal is a reflection of the fact that we have to do this ourselves. And I didn't understand what I was doing, and couldn't really understand the research that I was obsessed with reading. That made me mad. Being mad motivates me. I'm still mad, (hopefully not in all senses of that word ) and pretty damn motivated. I don't want to take things, do things, without understanding them. Ever again. I figured that nursing would (at the very least) help me to keep me and mine healthy.

The computer stuff came about because I know I don't want to actually be a nurse. Perish the thought! I don't like authority, pretty much abhor doctors (except the ones I know socially) and absolutely abhor bureaucracy and bull shit. Hospitals are no place for me!
BUT I would like to change the system. It's broken. In general, but it is really, really broken for people like us.
What better way to communicate lots of information to lots of people in a short amount of time than by horning in on the movement to go healthcare hi-tech?
Plus, it also drives me a bit nuts that I don't really understand the way computer systems work. (Ditto my car. But I have given up my life-long dream of becoming a lay-auto-mechanic, and I certainly don't want to earn a living doing it. I might break a nail. Kidding.)

So....standardized test questions. I literally just laughed out loud. That's awesome. I imagine that in my perfect world I will be doing something very similar--that is writing standardized something for peeps in health care. (It amuses me that in my mind's eye a good scenario is writing manuals for nurses, counselors, and most importantly, patients. As if anyone actually reads the instruction manual. Right? :H)

If it makes you feel any better, I like standardized tests. (I know. I am an odd duck.)

Your talk of PhD programs and teaching students was motivating!

I'm off to figure out how to stay focused on the goal--which includes not obsessing about the fact that we may have just bought a house yesterday. (HOLY COW! OMGOMGOMG! eeeeeeeek)
Hope it's a good day!