Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

StuckinLA;1349766 wrote: Where did that dedication go?
...
Not to say any of it was good, but I haven't been thrown out of the program yet.

How long has it been gone? Are you sure it's gone? Maybe you're redirecting the dedication to focus on what's important now?

I thought it went like this: [()] But I guess that's just in algebra. Damn mathematicians make everything confusing.
I learn so much from peeps around here.
Not annoying at all now that I know how to do it. Expect many more from me.

Hunter...hmmm. Not how I'd want to go. Or live. But certainly a good mentor if one wants that. I knew someone like that in college, actually. A complete nutter, but brilliant and charming in a way, content with a level of paranoia that would be appropriate in a horror film (if those knuckleheads were ever the least bit wary.) I wonder if he's still alive? Doubt it. Pretty damn sure he's not sober either. His parents were riiiiiiiich. And of similar bent. So unlikely he had to find a way out out of necessity. I think I'll facebook him. (as if! :H:H Can you imagine the likes on FB?)

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Good morning, NE and everyone.

The will to even open a book, if only for fun instead of work, is definitely gone, for over a month. Combination of HDB and booze? Probably. Or general malaise? I was having this problem all spring, really. Sober me doesn't concentrate very well, and doesn't want to do much besides pace the living room and play video games.

And speaking of which, sleep and anxiety is back. Having given up on going to bed, since there's a lot of panic there, I tried the futon, which is bloody uncomfortable as crap. Just woke up a few minutes ago, after being asleep for maybe 1/2 hour?

But I'm all numb and cramped, so I'll probably head to bed in a minute... but still anxiousy. And I didn't exactly deprive myself of AL this evening, I just didn't feel like drinking enough to feel an effect. Or I did, actually, but just didn't then go ahead and drink enough, and certainly not to the point of passing out--hey, we all make mistakes :H

Whatevers. Off to try, try again.

[spacebebe01]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Hi Stuck, just been reading back, but cant remember what I wanted to comment on, oh I know sober, AF or abstinence or whatever. Yes, your right it is all from the 12 step recovery culture, and I dont feel comfortable using any of the words to describe how Im doing. To me Im sober now because Im not drunk, I guess thats as far as Im willing to go with that one. My general not wanting anything to do with AA, or 12 step because of my own crap experience of it leads me to not even being able to use words that I mentally connect with it. I sure as hell dont understand the relevance of counting days after the first 5, they matter because they, for me where the detoxing ones but then after that it doesnt matter how many days you have colleceted together its what your doing and how you feel. This is just my take on it.

This dealing with the drink tho has taken me a long time, I could say it has pretty much been a lifelong journey but thats what life is anyway isnt it, a lifelong journey, which has changed though the years. For times I did start to buy into the idea that I was a failure, I wasnt going to get it and all the other shit I heard and there where times when my drinking was really bad I believed I just would never get the strength to stop but I somehow did. I do however believe that this strength came from my having kids and wanting to be their mum, I wanted to stay alive to be with them and didnt want to leave them without me. That was where I drew my strength from to not just carry on and die.

So over the years things have changed, I knew it wasnt going to be about how many days, weeks, months or years I could collect together without drinking, it just didnt make sense to me that all there is to life then is to be able to deny the cravings, to just not drink just didnt do it. When I tried it it didnt work, eventually my mind and body would be in such a state of discomfort, at times it would feel like I was being tortoured from within and I had become my own tourturer I couldnt do it. But somehow things changed, I had seen enough proffesionals and been to enough meetings to know that no one else was going to be able to give me what I needed, this had to be my way or it wasnt going to happen, I think that has a lot to do with my stubborn refusal to give up the drink now, I was told I had to too many times. Medication has made it possible for me to live with myself without the massive discomfort of before. Finding people who I can talk to and trust, who are there no matter what time of day or night, no matter how I feel or whether I have messed up or not is the the thing that keeps me going on a day to day basis right now I believe and those peeps are you lot on MWO, I dont know why but I couldnt get this in my face to face life, I just dont like people enough to want to spend time with them and starting to trust myself and believe that it will be ok.

Im not going anywhere with this now, not sure why I put it on your thread stuck, just want to send you some hope and strength I think while Im feeling it

"Whatevers. Off to try, try again." Thats what makes you a cool dude that will get what you want

:l

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Goddamn, some days I love my neighborhood. The rows of thrift stores, fruit vendors on the corner, taco trucks parked alongside building-length murals. The crumbling glamour of an old recreation center, originally part hotel, now apartments. It's looking through the right lens filter on these kinds of days that makes LA everything it could be. Or maybe it was just looking forward to leaving the apartment for a day of Day Drinking.

And then the tall, super-hot Mexican woman standing in line at the drugstore, in thigh-high leather boots with 4 inch heels, and strangely wonderful slits and straps and ties on the sleeves of her top, which is also a selling point of my 'hood. Walking into the parking lot, I see her standing next to a BMW with this short guy wearing khaki pants and a salmon polo... and boat shoes? Seriously? Of course this is the one day a year I'm the d-bag wearing cargo shorts myself, and decimated Chuck Taylors like a good hipster. And a faux-athletic department T that says "Prairie Lights Aesthetic Dept." It's a nerd joke, as Prairie Lights is a bookstore (Oh God, maybe I am a hipster). NE knows all about it, I'm sure (the bookstore, not the hipsters).

I meant to go straight to the bar for seafood soup, but found myself instead sitting down to an omelette at a restaurant down the block, then heading to a bookstore/cafe for a coffee and browsing the shelves. I bought 2 books and read the first 50 pages of 1 of them--and I have to say, Rachel Maddow's book is really interesting. But I'm stuck in fresh comp grading mode and kept finding myself thinking "wrong topic sentence... this evidence supports a different, but equally good, claim..."

Tried the bar, but it was packed with fans waiting for the Dodgers' game, so I walked down to a cafe and sat along the sidewalk in the shade, reading and smoking and drinking espresso.

In other words, Day Drinking FAIL.

Tried the bar again but walked right past it. Stopped a little ways up the street, leaned against the side of a building, and wondered what the hell just happened. That's when the bartender parked her car right there and asked if this was my new spot to hang out. As she fed the meter I asked what time the Dodgers' game started, as the bar would empty out when everyone walked up to the stadium. Turned out it was very soon.

"So I'll see you in 10 minutes, then," she laughed while walking away. I smoked a cigarette first, but did then follow a bit like a puppy dog. Asked for a shot of Jameson to make Irish coffee in my travel mug. When that was finished I got another shot of Jameson but it just sat there for a while. I sipped at it so slowly, actually, that after a bit when she came by she was like "why isn't that going away?"

Shrug.

"Do you need a beer? I'm buying you a beer," and she poured a Guiness. Then proceeded to tell a funny story--but she has a weird sense of funny--pertaining to her mother, who comes by her place everyday to help out (and it is actually hysterical how the "help" usually makes everything worse in a sitcom sort of way), and did laundry. So when the bartender opens her underwear drawer later she flips out, thinking her mother had mixed someone else's underthings in with hers, and the bartender is about to throw all this stuff away, when--the punchline--it turns out her mother had simply bought her some new things.

Which is kinda creepy, actually. But then we talked about bathing suit shopping and cake, which she promises to bring for me if she ends up having any tomorrow (no, the cake, sadly), while she ate an ice cream sandwich. So life was good again.

But this evening just feels empty. I stopped and stared at the liquor store. It really worried me that there isn't any whiskey at home, but I reminded myself I clearly hadn't wanted to drink. And now I'm home, and I feel like I should desperately want to get obliterated. I kind of do want that, but without thinking about it I'm only sipping on a couple beers.

Basically, this is simply baffling. I have not changed my dosage at all. 175 since what, the 28th of last month? Actually 1 day was only 125 because I passed out drunk before taking my last dose. I have not decided to go back to AF, though I kind of got it into my head that I probably should for some reason. But I was perfectly content to get wasted a few days ago... And I know I'll have anxiety sleeping, if I even sleep much at all, just like I did last night. Just like I did every night going to bed sober the last however long.

In other words, right now I wish I had the strength of someone I ran across a while back:

This afternoon I felt something very odd, I didn't have the overwhelming desire to get completely shit-faced. That's not like me at all and it worried me greatly. But thank God I had the willpower, fortitude and determination to power on through that alien feeling and have so far managed to neck a goodly volume of beer. Yay me!

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

spacebebe01;1349909 wrote:
Im not going anywhere with this now, not sure why I put it on your thread stuck, just want to send you some hope and strength I think while Im feeling it

Thank you, thank you, thank you Space. It's been a couple posts now that I haven't sat down and really responded. I completely get the wanting to quit/not thinking it'll ever happen. And believe it or not I also kind of get the mysterious, who could ever truly know what happened but I'm not doing that anymore. There have been times, before all this 12 step and AA stuff got into my head, that I would just try to control things for a while. I'd buy maybe 2 tall boys for the night, and that would be all I had in the house. I'd do that for nights on end, just get off the bus, buy the beer I'd drink that night, and go home to work on whatever I was working on.

Not sure when that changed, but I do, certainly, believe that we go through phases. Sometimes things are really bad, sometimes they're a little bad, and hey sometimes things are pretty darned OK. But AA or recovery generally has no place for that. There's simply no mechanism in that kind of thinking for a "phase" or a rough patch. And there will still be rough patches, but yeah, it is a journey and a process and that's OK.

Anyway, just wanted to say thanks for all your support here--and telling me to get some rest when you knew I should, and I hope you're doing well.

:h and :l

and

:huggy

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Dude. Are you still awake? 'cause I don't know if you're aware, but it's the middle of the night where you are.

Interesting thoughts about the black and white of the thing we call recovery. There IS so much room for gray in this environment, isn't there? And thank goodness for that. While it's hard to navigate, it is much more realistic.

Go to bed, La. It's late. Or early. If you can't, then tomorrow is a good time to start looking for solutions to that particular predicament, don't you think?
:l

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Ne/Neva Eva;1350213 wrote: Dude.
:l

Yeah that about sums it up.

[jaddyday]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Hi guys,

I don't want to drink against my will but neither do I want to be abstinent against my will. I have tried both and neither offers the opportunity to build a happy life, in my own case at least. However, this is the choice we are told we must make. The preeminence of 12-step dogma within the treatment industry both in the UK and the US is the root cause of this black and white thinking. The fact that, in the pre-Baclofen era, attempts at moderation by alcoholics were rarely successful over any significant time frame has also played its part.

I first approached my GP ten years ago, aged 19, when I realised that my drinking was getting out of hand. I was told that lifelong AA membership and total abstinence were my only hope. Somewhat unsurprisingly, I didn't find this awfully appealing. I decided that I would grow out of it and that I needed some direction in my life. My solution was to go travelling, and so I spent the next five months on an elongated pub-crawl around the eastern US. When I came home I bought a nightclub to give me some 'direction' - that was my solution to my burgeoning alcoholism! Anyway, I digress.

I've just returned from a 'dry' group that I attend regularly and it has made me rather angry. I started attending this group a few months ago as I wanted some face-to-face support and it is the only group for miles that is not 12-step, although a couple of our number also attend AA. In addition, I go because I want others to witness my progress in the hope of advancing the Baclofen cause. For the most part I find it beneficial but this evening we were subjected to the attendance of an AA 'recruiter'. Of course, he didn't announce himself as such but it became abundantly clear within a few few minutes of listening to him spouting the usual falsehoods about AA. When I shared my experience and told the group where I was at with Baclofen he basically said that I was either deluded and in denial or that I was never a real alcoholic in the first place! He told me that I should stop looking at my recovery logically and put my trust in god, and his 'non-religious fellowship'. And I'm the one who is deluded!

Unfortunately for him I know what I'm talking about. I have attended 368 AA/NA meetings (I'm a bit OCD I think!), spent four weeks in the Priory (12-step rehab), had two sponsors (I slept with the first one after spending the evening drinking with him and the second one 'suggested' that I stop taking the medication that my psychiatrist had prescribed for me and was promptly 'sacked') and worked the steps. I have read the "Big Book", the "12 and 12" and "As Bill sees it" and also spent a lot of time (probably more than is healthy) researching the history of AA, particularly the Oxford groups upon who's teachings the 12 steps are based. In short I cannot reasonably be accused of contempt prior to investigation. Franky, everyone is entitled to believe what they like but don't come into a room of sick and vulnerable people and try and coerce and mislead them into joining a group with questionable origins which has still, after 75 years, failed to prove it's efficacy. Rant over - I think I've made my point!

Anyway, back the the topic in hand. The simple truth is that every alcoholic I've every met would dearly love to be able to drink socially, whether they admit as much or not. We now have the means of achieving this. The black and white concept of drunk of sober is no longer relevant.

All in my humble opinion, of course!

Night guys.

Justin

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

I don't even know. Been doing a lot of meta-thinking about my thread lately. By that I mean what am I doing?

You guys have seen the difference between writing sober and writing drunk, right? So we can all lay the writing drunk myth to rest, at long last. It's just not good. There are lines and phrases that one thinks of during the day and then completely forgets to include.

And that's another problem: thinking about it during the day. I go about my day and things I see or thoughts I have will get filed away under "my post" in my brain. I'm starting to write for an audience. Which is what I'm supposed to do anyway, no? I'm a goddamned writer, or I say I want to be one. So at this point I simply don't know what I'm doing anymore. I write every night, hoping that what I'm putting out there resonates with people, and it helps me, too. Because I'm sitting down and typing. And I'm making notes about at least something during the day, and I'm thinking about sitting down at the keyboard. This is, actually, super helpful for me, in a lot of ways.

It's LOLZ, since I opened my notebook the other night at the bar, and I started making notes for my post, and the other bartender--the one who gave me 50 Shades of Grey with her phone # written on the title page--asked if I ever write about the bar. Yeah, I told her, sometimes I write about what goes on here...

But then it's also like, holy shit we're saving each other here... That's what we're actually doing. So why am I being all performative about it? It's not a performance, or it shouldn't be, and if it is then WTF is wrong with me? I mean, I'm not making anything up, or even exaggerating anything, but I'm a fucking writer and I choose details or scenes or whatever... But why, on a site for all of us trying to literally save each other from fucking oblivion and death, am I performing anything? And not even choosing those scenes all that well, come to think about it...

I, for instance, have noticed that when I was "sober" and writing about all the stupid random shit I do here in my apartment, mostly involving food, people seemed to laugh. When I simply narrate my day, without adding any kind of commentary (who picked this wardrobe) there's no space for anyone to say anything, really... And I actually want to be funnier than I have been these past few days/week. I'm hoping I can at least brighten someone's day.But I don't know how to write in a way that opens up to comments.

I have the same damned problem teaching a class. I talk, then I ramble on, then I babble, and before you know it I'm ranting and everyone shuts the fuck down. Because what is there left to say?

Which sounds totally fucking lame, we can all agree on that. Sounds like I'm asking for daily validation, which I'm totally not (yes, clearly I am). It's just, you know, I don't know what the hell I'm doing anymore...

Right now I'm listening to Underworld's Everything Everything tour on YouTube. Which you should also listen to, even though it's an hour and a half. Just open it up, and leave it in the background on your browser. It's so, so good, and it will make you feel good. And I had some drinks earlier, and I finished those while talking to Friend who's friends are dying with cancer and Ex girlfriend on the phone.

And had to walk down the damned hill to the liquor store to get something more to drink. Yeah, this is a drunk post, and this actually makes me happy? Last night I wanted nothing more than to drink enough to get drunk, but I couldn't seem to do it. Tonight, I do just that. I'm me again, so what's the problem?

I let this get way too out of control, and again left nothing to respond to. Maybe I'll start doing my updates in the morning while I have my coffee. I'm a lot more sober, angry, and funny then.

Again, I don't know. I haven't even read over this at all to edit... So it is what it rambling is...

Good night, my friends :l

PS. J, a lot I want to say in response to your post. It has to wait, sadly, 'cause I'm wasted.

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Reading back over all that nonsense, I remembered what I missed. Space at one point said I managed to take her out of her world and in to something else.

That's what I keep hoping to do. And I need to basically be better than I am right now to do that for y'all, and for me.

Good night for reelz. Sorry.

PS. NE, I know you're waking up soon. I'm already hearing you in my head saying all the wonderful, correct things you may very well probably say... And you're absolutely right.

I hope everyone is about to have a great day.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

:H and :l

My therapist's name is Beth, too. I have two other Beths that are part of my superduper strength network. Which is much beside the point. The point is that much of the time I want nothing more than for my Beths to like me.
When I told therapist Beth that she said a couple of things. One was that she does in fact like me. The other is that we all want to be liked. To be witty and amusing and profound.

I used to anguish over my posts. Prepare them all day and night. I still do! Well, I still think about this place and you people all the time. I don't anguish so much any more. Partly because this amazing miraculous thing happened: People started responding. In private and on the public forum.

There is (I have long said) a whole silent army of people out there reading and not writing. I guarantee you that more people relate to what you are putting out than you can imagine. (Not to add pressure! :H Don't stress! It's very, very likely they're all drunk too! :H)

The sun is rising, the birds are chirping, the weird not-rooster-crowing is echoing off of the building and dragon flies have started buzzing around the porch I'm sitting on. Underworld isn't working for me right now. I'll try again later.

'cause here's the other amazing thing about MWO. It's not just about the booze. I have music and books and
(OH! An iridescent turquoise dragonfly just landed on the edge of my laptop! I am moved to tears by that little gift.)

MWO is...
I am physically stronger because I learned how to exercise from Lo0p and Isolde. I found I like bands I NEVER would have heard of. The books I read are often suggestions from people I've met here and blow my mind. My understanding of the things that are important to me is far greater now, because of MWO. Especially of this disease. I have a network that includes cyber-geniuses and someone who can interpret and discuss research with me. And a nurse! And on, and on, and on.

I have a friend in Zimbabwe! Norway! All over GB! I used to chat regularly with someone in the far east! Even Oklahoma!
(reminds me of a Dr. Seuss poem. Oh, the people you'll meet and the places you'll go!!!)

Glad to see you're signed off. Hope you're sleeping.
Just keep writing AND taking the pills.

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Crap, thank you! I did forget to take the last dose of the pills... F me.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

Go. To. Bed.
Unless you get panicky. Then feel free to come back. We're always open.

[StuckinLA]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

I'm in bed! There'd be a great joke to make here, except that there's no bartender here. Oh, wait, there's probably still a great joke to be made there...

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Totally new to forum, sort of new to bac

hmmm.
hmmmmm.

Laptop in bed? How's that working out for you?