Baclofen Three Years On

[Otter]

I promised not to come here but it is important that I do. So much has changed in three years When we started there was only Bill P and a few others giving encouragement, no GPs in the UK at all prescribing and no one understood much about the drug.

Well, what a difference time has made. Our local GPs prescribe it, not that they fully accept it. It has proven to be a success over a long period in reducing drinking and helping manage drinking. It seems to have a permanent effect on the brain and returns one back to a more normal lifestyle,probably because the brain gets a rest.


What is good is that people are now able to find a source for baclofen which is safe, support in its use and doctors who are willing to prescribe.

It is so sad that all of this could not have happened so much earlier and without the confrontation and opposition from almost every quarter. It is the product of prejudice and nothing more. Here is something Mark Twain said which I have changed to reflect the prevailing attitude towards alcoholism and Baclofen, namely, that there is no cure, can never be one and there never will, that it is a problem of will power:

I am aware that when even the brightest mind in our world has been trained up from childhood in a superstition of any kind, it will never be possible for that mind, in its maturity, to examine sincerely, dispassionately, and conscientiously any evidence or any circumstance which shall seem to cast a doubt upon the validity of that superstition. I doubt if I could do it myself. We always get second hand our notions about systems of government; and high tariff and low tariff; and prohibition and anti-prohibition; and the holiness of peace and the glories of war; and codes of honor and codes of morals; and approval of the duel and disapproval of it; and our beliefs concerning the nature of cats; and our ideas as to whether the murder of helpless wild animals is base or is heroic; and our preferences in the matter of religious and political parties; and our acceptance or rejection of (baclofen as a treatment for alcoholism).

Best wishes to all.

O

[ifulovelife2]

Baclofen Three Years On

Otter;1311950 wrote:
What is good is that people are now able to find a source for baclofen which is safe, support in its use and doctors who are willing to prescribe.

:scratchinhead:
I'm trying to work out if you're intending irony.

[spacebebe01]

Baclofen Three Years On

Hi Otter, when I saw the title of the thread I was excited to hear from someone who had used baclofen for three years, or three years ago and had success or even failure but had an experience to share with us.

Why did you promise not to come here??

And can you say what has actually happened in your own experience with baclofen in the three years, has it worked, what has happened, how are you? I am interested has your drinking stopped, reduced or what, how do you feel

Im sorry I didnt understand the last paragraph

[BetterAndBetter]

Baclofen Three Years On

I posted something a little sarcastic and likely unnecessary here (too much internet combat experience), but am replacing it with this. All kinds of folks post to these sort of groups, under all sorts of conditions, and that's okay. This is a place with the intention to heal. We're all just trying to feel well here. Be well, all.

[Otter]

Baclofen Three Years On

My view based on seeing baclofen used over this time period is this: If you take baclofen religiously over a long time it gives relief from anxiety which other medications don't, at least not in the same way. That allows for a number of things to happen. One can see the problems drinking has created and start to do something about them. One can look at other issues in one's life, such as diet and "life style" choices which may have brought on the addiction in the first place.

Does that mean baclofen is not a "cure"? That question seems irrelevant now. It treats a certain type of anxiety and does so very well. If you have other things that cause you to want to drown your sorrows and escape, then that is something else. In fact, sobering up on baclofen can have a disastrous consequence as we found out to our utter horror.

If you sober up to quickly, on HDB, you can get DT's which will force you back to drinking again and can cause all sorts of problems if not treated properly. Then, try explaining to anyone that this was all a result of a medical treatment to "cure" the underlying cause of alcoholism, that you were doing it at home with medical supervision over the telephone.

Sadly we are still in an age where people are stigmatized for being alcoholics and it is not accepted that there is any medical treatment for it. That won't happen until more people start talking about it and it gets into the press.


Compounding this is the problem that this medication has to be taken religiously and does have side effects so it is not easy from any perspective.

If you have just a drink problem then baclofen will work wonders. It will also help significantly with long term chronic drinking but sometimes there may be an underlying organic issue such as in stroke. I saw a tv program the other day about a man whose sexual orientation changed due to a bang on the head. If that can happen then things like stroke and concussion can cause an anxiety condition, and do. Depending on where the damage is, this kind of anxiety can be very difficult to treat. Baclofen does calm the brain but it does not, in cases like this, repair the damage and it may be, I think, that in a lot of cases, baclofen may not seem to work as well, and stopping taking it results in a return to behaviour which then can cause relapse, if you understand what I a saying.

What I have noticed however, is that if one takes baclofen for a long time, it results in lessening of drinking and when one does drink to excess it allows one to stop again as someone would who had just had too much rather than resulting in a lengthy binge.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. My view is still that it is very much a "wonder drug". It has changed our lives radically for the better, it gives hope.

My experience with it suggests it is a medication which you have to stick with over a period of at least two years to get the full benefit and it can be an absolute "slug fest" in terms of getting the dosage right, relapsing along the way, sorting out a messed up life etc. etc.

I think the problem on these boards has been that there is an initial euphoria caused by people who used it very successfully and got good, quick results and knew what they were doing. Changing one's brain is not easy though so many get frustrated, relapse and abandon it. I think that is a big mistake unless you just cannot take the side effects and you can find another way out, but then you are back to the same old ineffective remedies.

Spacebebe: forget the Mark Twain quote. It was my attempt at humour. He is saying in reference to something else that it is impossible to change people's views of certain things. I just thought it applied to the general view of alcoholism, which burdens us and makes recovery more difficult.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen Three Years On

Morning, (for me) Otter.

I am really sorry to hear that it's such a struggle. At this point I think it might be a really good idea to share your story here. It will help give some understanding of the things you've written in your last post. More importantly, it might offer some support--maybe even suggestions. It can be a long lonely road.

Take good care.
:l

[spacebebe01]

Baclofen Three Years On

Otter;1315498 wrote:




My experience with it suggests it is a medication which you have to stick with over a period of at least two years to get the full benefit and it can be an absolute "slug fest" in terms of getting the dosage right, relapsing along the way, sorting out a messed up life etc. etc.

.

Do you think this applies only to HDB or do you think that us peeps taking low dose bac over a period of time will have changes happening.

And also do you think its because the bac gives us a gap in which to change lifestyle and habits or that the medication is the treatment itself whether we change our lifestyle or not

[Otter]

Baclofen Three Years On

I think the illness is neurological, ie., a disorder of neurotransmission and that alcohol causes the disorder in some and in others there are other contributing factors, like diet, heredity, disease, damage, anxiety from all sort of issues, climate, lack of sun etc.

I think baclofen calms the brain down so we can think about these things but "if" there are these other issues they need looking at, which is easier with baclofen.

Trouble is the gap can be filled with all sort of bad things so it just take perseverance over a long time in a lot of cases. I think two years on it is just the beginning, frankly. And that is once you have got the dose right.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen Three Years On

Otter;1315537 wrote: I think the illness is neurological, ie., a disorder of neurotransmission and that alcohol causes the disorder in some and in others there are other contributing factors, like diet, heredity, disease, damage, anxiety from all sort of issues, climate, lack of sun etc.

I think baclofen calms the brain down so we can think about these things but "if" there are these other issues they need looking at, which is easier with baclofen.

Trouble is the gap can be filled with all sort of bad things so it just take perseverance over a long time in a lot of cases. I think two years on it is just the beginning, frankly. And that is once you have got the dose right.

I find this line of thought particularly troubling. This is not reflected in the research, nor is it reflected in the experience of the people here.

It might be that your experience with your wife's alcoholism is a particular case study, Otter. A stroke is not something that can be ignored, and I don't think you can extrapolate her experience, with baclofen or lots of other things, into the general understanding of baclofen for alcoholism.

Space, the most recent research/study/thought has people taking baclofen in much less quantity than many of us do. It's more than was originally studied (in North Carolina and Italy) but way less than the 300mg I took!

Two years?
Filling it with bad things?

Please, Otter. I know much of the story, and I have kept it in confidence and will continue to do so. But I am very concerned that you are sharing information based on one case, and a huge amount of struggle, without benefit of all of the information. That can be very dangerous, as you yourself can attest.

[spacebebe01]

Baclofen Three Years On

Your 300mg Ne sounds massive and scarey to maybe quite a few people, but I cannot deny it worked for you, would it work for everyone? we will never know because so many people, myself included didnt manage to get anywhere near HDB. Thinking and looking back at my own evperiences tho I am amazed at the se's I got on such low doses, I only got to 100mg and was virtually passing out when I sat down, and I had to sleep I had no choice. But now I can take 60mg with no effects se's at all, I could go higher but what for? I dont know if that would help me any bacause now Im not clear enough in my mind about what it would do.

One of my medications was changed from normal to XL last week, I think from another mistake in my gp's office and when I took them I didnt seem to get the same stopping drinking messages I had been getting previous, this could just be in my mind I dont know. I am going to see my own gp tomorrow and ask him why they changed it, it was a med prescribed by my psychiatrist.

I am also not getting the care I could get I believe from the medical profession because I am not going to tell them about drinking. This is because I know they wont listen to anything else I have to say and just tell me to not drink then blah blah blah I have heard it all before and go to cbt therapy, I wont even go into my experience with the service that provides that here.

[azurmyst]

Baclofen Three Years On

As a newcomer to this group and finally receiving baclofen on line I am confused by the dosage some of the members are able to take. I have read slow and steady is the best way to go. I have yet in 4 days time been able to get past 10mg w/o passing out. It makes me cycle like most downs do. I will be wide awake and then get very tired. Is there something I am doing wrong? When I take it I do not drink more than two drinks. For me, that is a miracle in itself. So if this low of a dose is keeping me from drinking more than I would like do I still need to up the ante? Just confused a bit about the length of time on the drug. I was under the assumption that it takes around 28 days to form a new and productive or destructive habit so why do you have to stay on it for such a long time? Am i missing something here?

[azurmyst]

Baclofen Three Years On

By the way I am very thankful for those of you that can offer your experiences. I am finding this place as a number 1 support. So very glad I stumbled upon this site and thank you all for your contribution. This is a place of true healing and love and I am glad to have found all of you.

[spacebebe01]

Baclofen Three Years On

Hi Az, I would love to think that after 28 days a habit can be made or broken, but I suppose it depends how long you have had the habit for and how bad it is. Also bac is not just about changing habits, it does give the opportunity to do so, but it is about brain changing brain chemistry, there is a whole load of scientific stuff about it but Im not even going to try.

Did you intend to just take bac for 28 days then think that your habits would be changed enough for you to be ok? I have never heard of anyone doing that and dont know your drinking history and how long or bad it was but I would be amazed if that could happen.

Maybe if you tell us what you are wanting to happen it will give peeps a better idea of whats going on, also what your drinking was like, I apologise if you have already said and I missed it but I forget most things so dont take it personal.

My experience was at frist when I tried to take bac I went up to fast and too erratically and didnt have a plan or a titration schedule. I got bad tiredness se's even when only taking 100mg a day.
Since then I have taken between 40 - 60mg a day and been fine no se's and cannot see myself stopping taking bac in the near future. I also dont consider myself to have reached indifference toward alcohol my dosage is probably too low but the amount I take helps with anxiety and with not drinking in the way I did.

It is up to you whether you wish to up the ante or not, I think the tiredness at that dose will wear off in a couple of days. Also are you just taking 1 10mg pill or are you splitting it and taking 2 x 5mg