Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Thanks Ne for that link to the youtube clip. I watched all 3 parts of Jon Currie's speech, and was highly impressed with his dedication and knowledge. His ability to think logically and see addiction in an overall manner seems in stark contrast to the attitude of some doctors I have encountered. I never cease to be amazed that most doctors just won't consider alternative treatment ideas for alcoholism even when the standard old things plainly aren't working.

I received a reply to my email to Professor Currie today, but unfortunately it was a standard-issue reply due to the large number of people who have already been trying to ask him about the treatment. This means that I don't know the exact details of the treatment at present. The hospital is asking people to get their own doctors to contact them for these details. Fortunately I know at least one dedicated and flexible doctor in Sydney who I will be seeing this Thursday, so I will ask if he can contact them for the treatment details. I will post anything I find out on here.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

I was really impressed too, Greg. As I mentioned, I learned a lot, too. There is a doctor in Minnesota that is following the same line of reasoning--that is to say, the scientific one! :H He opened his own rehab, but in addition to that, he's tied in with a network of hospitals and is really taking steps to alter treatment protocols starting in the ER (A and E overseas.)

The cynical part of me wonders if he's going to try to keep the protocol secret in order to make a lot of $$$ from it. I could sort of understand that...But not really.

Really good stuff. Thanks for posting the link.

Great good luck to you tracking down the info! How are you these days?

EDIT: I am doing really well! You asked and I neglected to answer. Sorry!

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

I'm going well at the moment thanks. I did have a few stuff ups, returning to drinking a number of times starting in August last year. It was disappointing, as I had kept right off it for 19 months. It just shows that the addictive part of my brain remained there all that time and was ready to get me back on the booze. I personally think that drinking to try and escape emotional problems like depression, which is how I started, is a sure fire way to end up with a really severe psychological addiction.

I'm sober again now, and relying on Antabuse and low dose baclofen at present. I have had trouble with insomnia with medium-large doses, and I can't just ride it out because it worsens my depression and makes me want to give up the fight. That is why I am going after this doctor's treatment protocol. I want to keep off booze without having to rely on cannabis like I was doing. I am also going to try kava, as there are some anecdotal reports of it being useful as an alternative to alcohol. Benzos can also keep me off the grog but I would also rather avoid them as much as I can.

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

UPDATE:

Although my doctor will be away for another week, so I won't have a direct answer from the team carrying out this treatment, I looked up a presentation made by Professor Currie in Athens in 2011, at an addiction medicine seminar.

One page of his presentation is entitled Alcohol : Maintenance, with the following drugs listed (in this order):

*acamprosate (Campral)
*naltrexone
*baclofen
*topiramate (Topamax)
*disulfiram (Antabuse)
*ondansetron (Zofran, an anti-nausea drug used for chemotherapy patients)
*pregabalin (Lyrica)/gabapentin/memantine (an NMDA glutamate antagonist trialled in Alzheimer's patients)

I think it's pretty easy to guess, based on the Professor's statement that his new treatment involves a combination of a muscle spasm drug and at least one anticonvulsant, that it is baclofen plus Topamax, or perhaps sometimes baclofen plus Lyrica or gabapentin or memantine (which shares with anticonvulsants the property of reducing glutamate activity). He strongly emphasizes the need for normalizing GABA and glutamate activity in people who are trying to stay sober.

A couple of other noteworthy things in his presentation include the usefulness of ketamine followed by agomelatine in the treatment of depression, and the use of a drug called desmopressin in a severe alcoholic case study in which the guy was drinking 18-30 beers daily for many years and had failed all the other treatments. The claim is that desmopressin (normally used as a urine output reduction drug) given at 100-200 micrograms each morning for 1 month reduced the guy's drinking to just a few beers, if any.

I will post again once I get full confirmation via my own doctor of the exact treatment details, which will hopefully be next Thursday-Friday.

[Trixiebelle]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Greg;1315414 wrote: Hey Otter, I'm glad to hear your doctor is willing to prescribe baclofen now. Also glad to hear that doctors in general are becoming more open-minded. They infuriate me when they refuse to try something just because it's the patient who suggested it, or because they consider it "too much of a risk"...when not treating alcoholism carries the very real risk of death.

Well said, my thoughts exactly.

I tried Baclofen a couple of years back without a GP, but got scared taking a medication that I didnt have guidance for - the stupid thing is that I continue to throw alcohol down my throat on a daily basis like there's no tomorrow.

Baclofen seems much safer in comparison.

[AL Fiend]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Greg;1318273 wrote:

I will post again once I get full confirmation via my own doctor of the exact treatment details, which will hopefully be next Thursday-Friday.

Any updates Greg? Am really interested in this whole concept.

Thanks for bringing it to us.

AL

[AL Fiend]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Any Updates?

Greg;1318273 wrote:

I will post again once I get full confirmation via my own doctor of the exact treatment details, which will hopefully be next Thursday-Friday.

Any updates Greg? Am really interested in this whole concept.

Thanks for bringing it to us.

AL

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

AL Fiend;1323148 wrote: Any updates Greg? Am really interested in this whole concept.

Thanks for bringing it to us.

AL

I spoke to my addiction specialist in Sydney on Thursday, and he said he would email Professor Currie to see if he can get the precise details. He knows the Professor, so hopefully that may make it more likely for him to get a detailed reply. Unfortunately I have not yet heard back from my doctor, but when I do, I will post about it here.

[AL Fiend]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Great, Greg! So nice that your addiction specialist actually knows Professor Currie. Thanks for keeping us posted.

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

My apologies for the length of time getting exact details of this treatment. My addiction specialist works Thursdays to Saturdays now, so if I don't hear anything via email from him by about Friday, I will ring or email him to see if he heard back from Professor Currie. Believe me, I am desperate to hear what this treatment involves, both medication wise and dosage/titration wise, so I'm not sitting on my rear end with this.

One problem is that the Professor and his Addiction Medicine Department in Melbourne have been inundated with literally hundreds of inquiries from the general public since this story first aired on TV a few weeks ago, so it may take them some time to get back to doctors who are emailing them for information. As I said earlier, unfortunately they will not give out those details to members of the public, and I emailed and phoned them myself to no avail.

[spacebebe01]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

I wish they would just make public even the meds they are using, I hope you get a reply soon. I am still taking gabapentin and baclofen.

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

spacebebe01;1325804 wrote: I wish they would just make public even the meds they are using, I hope you get a reply soon. I am still taking gabapentin and baclofen.

Yes it is frustrating for me too. I can make an educated guess that if baclofen is one of the two meds, they are not using it at Dr Ameisen-style high doses, because the Professor has published a report recently talking about "high doses" of baclofen in 4 patients, and his idea of high dosage was only 75-125 mg per day.

My guess as to the treatment remains low-medium dose baclofen plus a standard dosage of one anticonvulsant, most likely topiramate, gabapentin, or pregabalin. He mentions the importance of controlling/reducing glutamate activity in the brain, and of nausea being one of the few side effects of the treatment, but this still leaves more than one possibility I think...lamotrigine/Lamictal is supposed to reduce glutamate from memory, while valproate/valproic acid (Depakote) is a drug known for nausea that the Professor has also mentioned in the past.

Then again, my guesses may be way off!!

[spacebebe01]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Hi Greg, Im glad you posted that. I have been having confusion about this reducing glutamate in the brain and taking L glutamine. Do they have anything to do with each other? does L glutamine increase glutamate in the brain do you know

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

spacebebe01;1326021 wrote: Hi Greg, Im glad you posted that. I have been having confusion about this reducing glutamate in the brain and taking L glutamine. Do they have anything to do with each other? does L glutamine increase glutamate in the brain do you know

My general knowledge is that L-glutamine is converted into both GABA and glutamate by cells. GABA is a relaxing neurotransmitter, while glutamate activates brain cells. They are supposed to balance each other out in a non-alcohol affected brain, leading to overall stability. Alcohol increases GABA action while reducing glutamate action, thereby producing two calming effects, but when the alcohol is reduced or removed (and the brain has already adapted to try and be neutral again with regular alcohol intake), the opposite happens...not enough natural GABA stabilizing effect and too much glutamate excessive stimulation effect. This would be most obvious during acute alcohol withdrawals, but it seems that it can continue after acute withdrawal is over. It could explain why so many alcoholics can't stand sobriety for very long. Of course dopamine reinforcement is a big player when people start drinking, to get that initial euphoric hit, but it may not be any stronger than this GABA-glutamate balance once a person has become a chronic relapsing alcoholic.

Anyway, I wish you all the best.

EDIT : I took 1500-2000 mg of L-glutamine plus 2000 mg Campral per day back in 2001, when I managed to stay completely AF for 2 months or so. Ended up stupidly "forgetting" to take both, which could well have been my reason for relapse. I have also edited out a paragraph in this post, in which I was skeptical of glutamine, because it has helped quite a few people and it may well have helped me.

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Just an update and yet another apology from me regarding this new treatment.

My doctor spat the dummy because the Professor running the treatment is a long-time colleague and friend of his, yet has not answered his direct emails. Instead, all information is being given out via the hospital's addiction medicine staff, and doctors have to line up and wait for phone interviews for this. My doctor feels it is an insult to him that he has to go through this process when he has been a senior colleague of the Professor for years, and does not seem to understand that it is because the hospital has been absolutely inundated with requests for the treatment details. Some doctors contacting them are now having to wait until the end of August or start of September to discuss it.

I have asked the hospital staff if they can keep my doctor's July 27 appointment reserved for me even if my doctor refuses to go on with the process, so that I can find another doctor and get them to liaise with the hospital staff. If things still work out ok, then I should still have the treatment details on July 27 or shortly afterwards. As promised, I will post on this forum about it as soon as I know. I have also asked the addiction staff at a Sydney hospital if they could help me with all this, if it falls through with doctors I line up. The Sydney hospital is St Vincent's, which is also the name of the hospital in Melbourne running the treatment, so I assume they are sister hospitals.

I do have a bit of extra information about the treatment, from one of the Melbourne staff. She told me that it is not just a single fixed medication regimen for every patient, but rather anywhere from one to over five medications at the one time, depending on each patient's case. I'm assuming they mean whether the patients also suffer from depression, anxiety, sleep disorders, other addictions, etc. in addition to their alcoholism, and also what medications they have tried in the past. Apparently the doctor who takes charge of the treatment liaises with the Melbourne hospital staff and explains the patient's history, and then the hospital recommends a treatment program. For this reason, it is not quite as simple as originally reported by a TV current affairs program here in Australia, but I am still almost certain that both baclofen and topiramate (Topamax) would play a very big part in most or all patients' treatment programs.

Anyway, I now wish I had waited for all the information, instead of jumping the gun and rushing on here to write all about it, and running up to alcoholic friends to tell them all about it. My intentions were genuine, but I just did not foresee the extensive delays due to the huge public and doctor interest in it.