Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

I had to look up "spat the dummy." :H

I'm so glad that you did post, and that you posted when you did! It's all a process, Greg. For me, and for others who come behind us, it will validate it all in a way. Don't you think?

And it is amazing that they are proactively treating the whole conundrum, on an individual basis, for the individual purpose. Imagine that! Hell, you can't even get a doctor to do that to treat diabetes unless you get a really good doctor.

For the first time, I am really very excited! Fascinating stuff, and hoorah! to the doctor that is working on this. And also, while it is lousy for us as individuals, it is WONDERFUL that he/they are being so careful with how and what they disseminate. Would that OA or some of the other bac pioneers had done that.

I'm excited and gratified for you, too, Greg. It's not long now! While I doubt that the process is going to be easy, (because it never is, is it?) I pray that it will be a simple solution for you to finally get the help you need. You're pretty amazing in your fortitude and courage. I hope you know that. :l

Thanks again!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Wow, even for me that post was remarkably exclamatory! !!! for good measure.

[spacebebe01]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Doctors and thier bloody ego's has he even though how unproffessional he will look letting a childish tantrum affect his patients treatment.

I am glad you posted this when you did Greg, it has given us all something to think about and I am impressed that they are intending treating patients on an individual basis, WOW, that is what is needed but so rarely done.

Im keeping my fingers crossed for youthat it all works out for the appointment on the 28th and your doc sees sense and agrees to go. He may suddenly remember having behaved that this before, like when he was 10 and realise what hes doing.

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Hi Karen, it's amazing how many variations of the English language exist, and how much slang develops in the countries where it is spoken. There are a few hilarious comedy
send-ups of Australian talk, accent, and slang. I sometimes write without stopping to consider the inclusion of such local sayings, which obviously makes it hard for many to understand what I mean.

Yes, I am impressed so far with the way in which Professor Currie and his team are going about the whole thing, even though frustration is mixed in with the enthusiasm. Jon Currie is an experienced neurologist, and as such he is probably one of the most likely sources of innovative new treatments for brain-based disorders such as addiction. He fully recognizes that alcoholism and other addictions are brain chemistry disorders once they have become established in sufferers, unlike almost everyone else who works in this field. In his live presentations, he gives me the impression of being a knowledgeable, broad-thinking, caring, and good humoured person. He also admits, like doctors in Germany who use a different (and more dangerous) approach to alcoholism treatment, that current methods of treatment have terrible long-term "success" rates.

Thank you for your encouragement, and also thank you for being on this forum so regularly to help people. I can't do this at present, mainly due to unreliable Internet connections. I have tried high dose bac several times now, and if this new idea fails for some reason, I will just lock myself away at home and force "the damned pills" down my throat, but I dearly hope this new idea allows bac to exert its benefits without the insane doses needed by most people. I honestly don't know how you and others have been able to take 200-300+ mg of it every day and still function in some way, but I admire you all for doing so. That, to me, takes more courage and determination than I will ever have.

I don't know why OA didn't go on to champion his method, and I honestly don't even know how he is going these days.

Take care mate, talk again soon.
Greg

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

spacebebe01;1349889 wrote: Doctors and thier bloody ego's has he even though how unproffessional he will look letting a childish tantrum affect his patients treatment.

I am glad you posted this when you did Greg, it has given us all something to think about and I am impressed that they are intending treating patients on an individual basis, WOW, that is what is needed but so rarely done.

Im keeping my fingers crossed for youthat it all works out for the appointment on the 28th and your doc sees sense and agrees to go. He may suddenly remember having behaved that this before, like when he was 10 and realise what hes doing.

Hi Space, thanks for your support.

Yes my doctor's reaction struck me as being very childish. That is why I used the local slang term "spat the dummy", which basically refers to a baby who spits out their dummy as part of a tantrum. It s***s me off, to be quite honest.

Don't worry, in the end I will get through to them by sheer persistence if I have to.

If not, then it is self-prescribed medium-dose baclofen plus maximum-dose topiramate, starting at the end of this month once I know if my efforts to get help have failed.

I hope you are going well. I am not on this forum very often due to Internet access problems, but I will definitely post my results, if I have any.

Best wishes, Greg.

[DfromCT]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Hi, Greg,

I just stumbled upon this thread, and am very intrigued. I came VERY close to starting a program similar to MWO, though it includes the "meds" (similar to the nutrients/supplements with MWO and something I think that's Diadzen based) in the program. It's a whole lot more expensive than the MWO starter packs, but it does not require you to get an Rx, which in the US immediately goes on your permanent medical history if you get it filled using your insurance. (A lot of people that don't know that will have their eyes opened next time they go to buy insurance, and this sharing of info is decades old, has nothing to do with Obama care!)

The program is called The Last Call. You might want to check it out and see how similar it is.

Great thread, thanks for sharing.

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

DfromCT;1349960 wrote: Hi, Greg,

I just stumbled upon this thread, and am very intrigued. I came VERY close to starting a program similar to MWO, though it includes the "meds" (similar to the nutrients/supplements with MWO and something I think that's Diadzen based) in the program. It's a whole lot more expensive than the MWO starter packs, but it does not require you to get an Rx, which in the US immediately goes on your permanent medical history if you get it filled using your insurance. (A lot of people that don't know that will have their eyes opened next time they go to buy insurance, and this sharing of info is decades old, has nothing to do with Obama care!)

The program is called The Last Call. You might want to check it out and see how similar it is.

Great thread, thanks for sharing.

Hi, sorry for my delayed reply but I haven't been on here for several days now.

I have heard about The Last Call program, although I don't know all that much about it apart from it apparently using a substance that occurs in Kudzu, along with other things. I will read it up more about it soon. I can't really comment on it, but I generally support anything that can help with alcohol dependence as long as it is not pseudo-science (i.e. unsubstantiated or vague claims presented as science) or a blatant money-making scheme. Please understand that I am not rubbishing the program before even reading about it, or putting you down for mentioning it, but rather just suggesting that you look closely into it before shelling out money on it. If it helps you, let us know.

Yes I do have a pretty good idea of how US medical insurance works, simply by reading what others and yourself have said about it on this forum. Fortunately here in Australia we don't face the same medical insurance hassles.

Best of luck with it all!

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Finally a bit of progress...

My doctor/addiction specialist eventually agreed to liaise with the Professor and his team at the Melbourne hospital about the treatment method I have been writing about in this thread. Polite but fairly firm persistence does pay off in desperate situations like this! After some regular emailing to both my doctor and the hospital, the original time slot of 9 AM (Aus EST time) on July 27 was kept open for me, and my doctor finally agreed to also keep it. I will talk to him after he has talked with them. He has been a very good, kind, and helpful doctor to me, and the drama was just a complicated misunderstanding between him and the hospital.

I have to add that I cannot guarantee that this is a miracle, or that it will work for everyone, despite the claimed 70 percent total abstinence result. I don't know how severe on average the alcoholics are that are being treated, nor how long their average abstinence period has been. Keeping in mind that severe alcoholism is a chronic relapsing disease, the long-term results from a treatment that is still only very recent cannot be known or even predicted right now. It's pretty much like things were when Dr Ameisen wrote of his self-treatment with high-dose baclofen, and when some people on this forum and elsewhere (who have more guts and persistence than myself) decided to try his treatment.

No matter how it goes, I will post here about it, and about any results I have with it.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Thanks, Greg!

I am still very excited, both for you and for all the rest of us!

It's not a matter of guts, btw. You've got more than most I know and seem to have just the right combination of stubborn and smart to go along with it. You've also got some pretty fierce tools at this point, and I have no doubt you'll be free of this dreaded thing we call addiction.
:l

[DfromCT]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Greg;1351060 wrote: I have heard about The Last Call program, although I don't know all that much about it apart from it apparently using a substance that occurs in Kudzu, along with other things. I will read it up more about it soon. I can't really comment on it, but I generally support anything that can help with alcohol dependence as long as it is not pseudo-science (i.e. unsubstantiated or vague claims presented as science) or a blatant money-making scheme. Please understand that I am not rubbishing the program before even reading about it, or putting you down for mentioning it, but rather just suggesting that you look closely into it before shelling out money on it. If it helps you, let us know.

Greg, I looked into The Last Call, then backed away from it when I discovered it had zero clinical studies that were AMA approved. LOL, it was also expensive (though Naltrexone can be well over $1k us/month if you want to avoid the insurance cartel labelling you) which is why I kept looking. Once I found there was no medically approved, double blind studies for the "medicine", that was it for me. My doctor wouldn't give me an Rx for Topamax for the same reason (in addition, he said it would have terrible side affects, is habit forming and hard to come off of, and he wouldn't risk his license either!) but I'm still interested in the self-proclaimed success of The Last Call.

[Greg]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Ne/Neva Eva;1351491 wrote: Thanks, Greg!

I am still very excited, both for you and for all the rest of us!

It's not a matter of guts, btw. You've got more than most I know and seem to have just the right combination of stubborn and smart to go along with it. You've also got some pretty fierce tools at this point, and I have no doubt you'll be free of this dreaded thing we call addiction.
:l
Hi Ne, sorry as usual for not being online lately. Thanks again for your support. I am just counting down the days now to see what happens!

My doctor wants me to transfer to a more local one for long-term treatment, as he is 200 km away from where I live, but hopefully he will tell me the treatment details (even just the basics) before this. The problem is, I live in a small rural city, and all the doctors here are closed-minded. In other words, if a treatment is experimental, off-label, or in any other way different, and especially if a patient has a role in suggesting it, they will not help you. I would travel 200 km regularly to see the existing doc if he will agree to that, otherwise I will ask if he has someone else he can suggest. He assumes that most doctors are open-minded and knowledgeable about addiction the way he is, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Of course I could order online and just self-treat, like most of us here have done, but I would prefer to be medically supervised. One big reason for that is so I can ask for compulsory supervision of Antabuse, as I have fallen into a dreadful trap of taking it for only a few days while I get back off alcohol, and I feel so rotten (emotionally, not physically) each time I self-detox that I quit the Antabuse, wait a few days, and drink again. Sometimes I have lasted 2-7 weeks off it, but then stuff up again due to just not psychologically handling the sober mind state (even with activities and distractions). An extremely sick stomach may soon force me into being physically unable to drink anyway, but then I may think of cannabis all over again...I even tried synthetic cannabis, which is so dangerous and unknown that only a desperate fool or kid would ever try it...bloody hell what a mess!!!! At least I will have an antidepressant to use when I finally get underway and which worked for me years ago, but which I haven't taken regularly due to the dangers of mixing it with alcohol...it's an old tetracyclic called mianserin (similar to mirtazapine/Remeron except that I can tolerate it a lot better).

Anyhow, enough about me. I hope all is still well with you. You are one of the huge high-dose bac success stories around here, and you do so much to be here regularly helping others. I would do more, except that I don't (yet) have any success to report...my 19 months of no alcohol but 1 mg Xanax + cannabis every night is not something I can (or should) proudly tell others about.

Best wishes for now:l

DfromCT;1352616 wrote: Greg, I looked into The Last Call, then backed away from it when I discovered it had zero clinical studies that were AMA approved. LOL, it was also expensive (though Naltrexone can be well over $1k us/month if you want to avoid the insurance cartel labelling you) which is why I kept looking. Once I found there was no medically approved, double blind studies for the "medicine", that was it for me. My doctor wouldn't give me an Rx for Topamax for the same reason (in addition, he said it would have terrible side affects, is habit forming and hard to come off of, and he wouldn't risk his license either!) but I'm still interested in the self-proclaimed success of The Last Call.

Yes this is a big reason I am so skeptical about treatments that sound too good to be true, not just The Last Call but also expensive rehabs, AA infallibility claims, and conventional treatment claims. I would never have taken a serious interest in the treatment that this thread is about if it weren't run from a recognized hospital by a reputable neurologist who has studied addiction for years.

As for Topamax, I have never heard of it being habit forming, and epilepsy patients have to take it long term. It CAN have a serious but rare eye-pressure side effect, which is why I am getting my eye pressure checked before I attempt Topa (just to be sure there is no existing problem there). Like other drugs it can also have numerous other side effects, and I guess many doctors are too scared of risking their livelihoods on off-label prescribing, so he's probably being truthful there.

The Last Call may indeed have successes out there, it's just that I have not heard of any myself. Someone else here may know however.

Anyway, best wishes to you and everyone else here, I will report with more news when I have any!

[baclofan]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

DfromCT

DfromCT;1352616 wrote: My doctor wouldn't give me an Rx for Topamax for the same reason (in addition, he said it would have terrible side affects, is habit forming and hard to come off of, and he wouldn't risk his license either!)

I strongly suggest as my genuine concern for your well being that you get yourself much better educated doctor...just my 2 cents.

Btw, my pdoc told me that there's no problem stopping topiramate cold turkey unless it's been prescribed as an anticonvulsant, so I've stopped in recent past...no w/ d symptoms whatsoever.

Ps, restarted topiramate over a week ago - slow taper (50 mg currently - planning on reaching much higher level if needed - script calls for 200) with conjunction of 40 mg of baclofen (20 mg flexibility left on the script), 30 mg mirtazapine, 2.5 ml LDN and doing fantastic! :undercover:

[spacebebe01]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Hi bacofan do you get your script from your gp or addictions doc or psychiatrist or what, Im just asking because it sounds so much like what Greg is looking into doing, glad to hear your doing so well.

DfromCT, I agree with baclofan on that, maybe you should question where your doc is getting there information from. Its one thing for them to refuse to give a med off label, mine wont, but another entirely to mislead you as to why.

[baclofan]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

spacebebe01;1353463 wrote: Hi bacofan do you get your script from your gp or addictions doc or psychiatrist or what, Im just asking because it sounds so much like what Greg is looking into doing, glad to hear your doing so well.

Hi Space, he's a psychiatrist...apparently one of the best in Canada although some accredited sources claim he's the # 1, yet he's very humble tho and says addiction is not really his main field of expertise.

Edit: I remember that during my first visit I've mentioned that I was presribed Bacofen at CAMH as experimental medicine based on a french - american dr.'Amiesen' and my pdoc corrected me...that's actually dr. Ameisen...and that he had read his book, is familiar with baclofen for AL addiction and is ahead of the curve with some of so called 'experimental' meds.

[spacebebe01]

Anticonvulsant+muscle relaxant alcoholism treatment : 70-90 percent claimed success

Your lucky to have found someone to help, its so sad that there are still so few docs in the world who do so but its always really good to hear of any who are prepared to.