An introduction

[Ne/Neva Eva]

An introduction

Here it is.

My parents think that I was completely abstinent after my last stint in rehab (2005) until I told them I was taking baclofen (2010). They make all kinds of erroneous assumptions based on that. They also make all kinds of assumptions based on what I have told them about baclofen. Though I've tried to share ALL of the information about baclofen (too much apparently! :H) They now offer my husband a drink, or rather my dad does, because he understands (?) that he can drink occasionally. That would NEVER happen with me. It would be extremely painful to see me drink. It would also be very painful for them to hear that I was never abstinent. That I didn't actually accumulate 30 days in a row after rehab. That I started drinking daily within 3 months and never achieved more than a couple of days in a row after that. Except when I was with them. Which made me pretty eager to get home, get away, get to a place where I could drink. The fact that I can participate for as long, and as thoroughly, as I do now, is pretty disconcerting for them! :H That, and I call them at 9pm.
My excuses for the above things were believable in that they wanted to believe, and pretty consistent because I have never wanted to hurt them. Still don't. Though at some point (and I am shocked it hasn't happened yet) they'll have to know that I drank daily.

I figure it's going to come out, because I feel about it a lot like you do. It is way past time that this is out in the open. That addiction is not shameful. That it's treated as the brain chemistry malfunction that it is.

"But you wouldn't be an alcoholic if you didn't drink!" well, yeah, that's true. But I'd damn sure be something else. Miserable for sure. A different addiction possibly. Whatever. I was born with this. There is absolutely no question in my mind. And I've never had a 'normal' drink. Until my first one after February 4, 2011.

"But if you just stopped..." hmmm. Don't eat for a day and let me know how that works for you.

Here's what is amazing for me in this new part of the journey. I can see, now, where all the stuff in 12-step programs stems from. There is no question that they were on to something, right? The steps are set up to reduce anxiety. Eliminate the really awful feelings that are so pervasive in our minds. Give us tools and words and phrases to quantify or qualify what happens during craving or relapse.

The problem, for me, was that I could not identify that when I was in the programs because I was not being treated for the chemical part. And once I was treated for that I, like you, found immediate relief from all of the crap that burdens--namely regret, remorse, and resentment. Because I really and truly wasn't making rational decisions, because I couldn't.

Now I can. I can also be willfully dishonest without thinking that it might kill me, or without worrying that at some point I was going to have to make amends for it. wooohooo! :H Sick but true. I can lie! Which I did much more frequently when I was sick, but I do now too. And I feckin' revel in it. (The lie then was something akin to making an excuse about why I couldn't, didn't or wouldn't do something. "I'm sick. I've got the flu. I'm busy that day/night. My grandmother is not feeling well and I'm going to visit her." You get the idea.)

I'm also much more likely now to just say no. THAT is a real gift. (It's a woman thing. I swear we are genetically programmed to say yes to every damn thing every person wants from us. My mother is the WORST. But also the best, because she can't say no!)
"No I don't want to go to my second cousin's wedding in a gymnasium in Timbuktu! I don't know her and I can't stand her mother!" Or rather, just: "No thanks." I still try to be polite.

So power on, Justin. I've been passively (sometimes actively) looking for someone to do something akin to what you're thinking of so I can attach myself to the bandwagon. I was gung ho to do it myself, or try anyway, but it's going to take a couple more years. And I'm not sure that it's my role. Which might not be a bad thing in the grand scheme. I am VERY glad I didn't come out and go public a year ago when I was on fire to get this OUT OUT OUT into the public.
However, it is very lame of me that I still don't have a local pdoc and still don't reach out to people locally. But that, too, will happen eventually. Maybe when I spend a lot less time on MWO!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

An introduction

So back to what your expectations are and how that fits in with your social life soon, I hope.

[jaddyday]

An introduction

Good Evening Folks

Apologies in advance for the length of this post but I have rather a lot to say so I thought I may as well get it done in one hit.

As some of you already know, I have decided that I now want to work in the treatment industry in the hope of advancing the Baclofen cause. To that end, I have applied to work as a peer mentor at the local community addiction centre I attend. The application form asks me to provide information as to why I want to be a mentor and it turned into a bit of a rewrite of my life story. Bits of it have already been posted on my thread but I have decided to post it in its entirety to give you all a better idea of where I've come from, where I am now and where I would like to go in the future. So here goes:

"My own story is rather long and drawn out so I will give you the pr?cised version! I started drinking regularly in my mid-teens and became addicted very quickly. By the time I left school I had gone from a caring, intelligent and hugely ambitious young man, interested in the world around me looking forward to all the future had to offer, to someone whose sole purpose in life was to spend as much time as possible in the pub. Although my upbringing was fairly privileged in a material sense it was also very traumatic. From the age of five I witnessed the death of my farther followed two years later by my mother suffering a stroke whilst out walking with me. Fast forward two years and I watched my maternal grandmother, who, since my father?s untimely death, had become a second parent to me; die suddenly in front of me. During this time my mother?s health had been steadily deteriorating until, aged twelve, she told me that she needed a heart transplant or she too would be dead within the year. All of this I ?dealt? with by staying strong and supporting my family; never showing emotion, asking for or accepting help. When I started drinking around the age of 14 all this emotional baggage, coupled with my burgeoning homosexuality (something which I found abhorrent at the time) was only likely to end one way.

Fast forward a few years spent partying, travelling and drinking until I reach 21, at which point I decide I need a focus. I was fortunate enough to have been endowed with a substantial trust fund courtesy of my late grandmother, so, given that I needed a focus in life and never left my local pub, I decided to buy it! I completed the purchase on Friday 4Th December 2004 and my drinking really took off. I?m sure I don?t need to paint you a picture of the following two years but it suffices to say that I emerged bankrupt, friendless and with a family who didn't want to know me. I had also developed two secondary addictions; cocaine and gambling. I was at the lowest point of my life so far but despite overwhelming evidence, it didn't even occur to me that alcohol was the issue.

I spent the next year or so in a permanently alcohol and drug induced hell until my mother finally relented and gave me a load of money to go travelling for a year. I booked my ticket for a couple of weeks time and went on the most almighty piss-up of my life culminating in me crashing the car a friend had lent me attempting to exit the pub and being arrested for drunk driving. I blew 159ug in breath (five times the UK drink drive limit)! Threatened with the real possibility of a custodial sentence, the penny finally dropped. I admitted that I was an alcoholic, but I had absolutely no comprehension of what that word actually meant. I had decided that I wasn't going to drink again and that was that. I attended a couple of AA meeting, on my solicitor?s instruction, but frankly felt that they were making rather a meal of it. Whenever I want to do something I do it; I had decided that I was finished with alcohol so the problem was now sorted. Having a vicar and a bishop in my extended family, who I despised for their rank hypocrisy, the preeminence of the word God in the literature was also rather off-putting to say the least!

Somewhat unsurprisingly that was not the end of my association with alcohol! After a year or so of seemingly terminal decline, my mother agreed to pay for me to go into The Priory on their addictions treatment programme. I spent a challenging month there, dealing with the aforementioned emotional baggage and emerged happier, healthier and ready to start my life again. They had even managed to sell me on the virtues of AA, after all, at over four grand a week they must know what they?re talking about!

I went to lots of meetings, got a sponsor, did service and worked the steps. I never really believed any of it but I was willing to believe that others knew better than me and that it would help me in the long run. I started to rebuild my career and began to make a success of my life. In April 2011 I celebrated two years of sobriety, I had my family back in my life, a couple of good friends, a growing business and plenty of money.

It was at that point that I was the closest I've ever been to taking my own life.

I had built a life based solely on fear and greed; fear of returning to the degraded existence I suffered before I entered the Priory. I pursued wealth constantly and obsessively because I dreamed of the day that I could return to drinking without fear of destitution. Everybody was telling me how well I was doing but I was dying inside. My craving for alcohol, far from abating over time, grew ever stronger until it pervaded every moment of every day. Even sleep offered no respite.

When I started drinking again I loved it. I had my social life back. I had loads of friends and loads of sex, two things which had been very much lacking during my period of abstinence. Within nine months I had let my business go down the pan, spent all my money, lost my driving licence again and returned to a very base existence. I didn't know what to do. I knew that I was destroying my life but I also now knew from personal experience that enforced abstinence was just as bad. I had resigned myself to a life of continual binge and abstinence cycles. I longed for death. I had given up.

It was then in a nostalgic moment that I found myself going through my ?recovery file?. I have kept pretty much everything pertaining to my recovery and I guess I was looking for a glimmer of hope. I found a single sheet of A4 that my mother had printed off for me shortly before I entered The Priory back in 2009. It was an article from the national press about a French cardiologist by the name of Olivier Amesien. Amesien was a successful and respected doctor until alcoholism brought him to the brink of death. He had spent many years in rehab, therapy and AA but they had little effect. He realised, as I had, that alcoholic cravings never get better and always brought him back to alcohol. Through medical research and self-experimentation he discovered that the drug Baclofen, a safe non-addictive GABA B receptor agonist, gave him total relief from alcoholic cravings and even allowed him to drink socially without getting drunk or returning him to an alcoholic binge.

Fast forward through six months of research, procrastination and endless difficulty in getting hold of the medication and I am free from the bondage of addiction. I no longer think about alcohol obsessively. I am able to go out for an evening with my friends, wake up the next day and have no compulsion to drink what so ever. In short, I have achieved the holy grail ? the ability to drink socially. Just three months ago I thought I was condemned to spend the rest of my life in a never ending cycle of binge and abstinence; never able to build or maintain relationships or develop a career. Frankly I longed for death.

Make no mistake, Amesien?s discovery will revolutionise the treatment of addictions. For the first time, addicts are able to be truly free from addiction and go on to build happy and productive lives. Those of us who follow this treatment measure our success by whether or not we are drinking against our will. The concept of drunk or sober holds no relevance for us. I have no desire to begin drinking against my will again but abstinence against my will does not offer a palatable alternative. By removing the requirement for total abstinence and life-long AA attendance many more people will access treatment and at a much earlier stage in their lives. If I had been offered this treatment ten years ago when I first visited my GP I would have been spared ten years of abject misery.

So, my reasons for this application are as follows. There is a growing movement of people having phenomenal success with this treatment but they are, for the most part, doing it without medical supervision or support. I believe that I have been successful so quickly because I had already received a great deal of therapy and have dealt with my past. All I was left with was a simple chemical dependency. This treatment offers the chance of a real, happy and sustainable recovery for the majority of addicts but it should never be seen as a ?magic bullet? but as an adjunct to therapeutic treatment.

I have decided that I want to help bring this treatment into the mainstream and, to that end; I will commence training as a therapist in September. I would very much like to spend some time working with the bridge to kick-start my learning and to offer my support to an organisation that, during my brief association, has offered me a great deal of support and encouragement."

So, as you can see, I've very much nailed my colours to the mast but I figured that I may as well start as I mean to go on. If they want me, great. If they don't, I'm okay with that too but I believe in always having the courage of one's convictions. I had a friend of mine read it too - the one who was very much a proponent of abstinence. It seems to have done the trick and she now realises that I actually do know what I'm talking about!

I also decided to read it out to a recovery group I attend at the bridge. It was met with a mixture of cynicism and bewilderment - much as I expected. They pretty much universally agreed that they would wait to see how I get on in the longer term before considering it for themselves; a pretty sensible stance I have to admit. Even the group facilitator, a 12-step proponent, conceded that there was more than one route to recovery which went someway to pacifying my anger towards AA. However, I was accused today by one of the therapists there, of "peddling snake oil". This angered me somewhat as the facility is there to help people to abstain or moderate. I let it go at the time but I have since emailed him in protest. I pointed out that I wasn't "peddling" anything, I was simply sharing my experience. As for Baclofen being "snake oil", it has proved its efficacy far more conclusively in open studies in less than 10 years than AA has managed in 75. And so I await his response with baited breath!

So, back to today - if anyone has actually made it this far! I have decided to begin titrating down from my current dose of 270mg/day. I haven't had a life-shattering switch but I only actually drank three times on my way up, once at 90mg and twice at 120mg. I stopped obsessing about alcohol at around 150mg so I guess that's where I switched. I plan to go down to 180mg and hold it there for a while. I can always go up again if I need to.

Anyway, whilst I could easily bang on for another couple of thousand words I'll leave it at that.

Justin.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

An introduction

I'm running out of time, and have several more places I'd like to post, so I've got to make this brief. (I can imagine your relief!)
Thank you so much for sharing all of that. And your goals are very exciting and inspiring. I'm a little in awe of your ability to Just Do It. And motivated by it, as well. Thank you.

One other thought: One of the things that I do to myself (even now) that drives me bananas is to set a number in my head in relation to baclofen. I have always wanted to get down below the FDA recommendation of 80mg/day. (I'm at 140mg) And it doesn't work like that. It's not just the booze, either. It's that baclofen has a profound effect on keeping my brain chemistry in some sort of balance in ways that I can only explain anecdotally.

My point is that a number (180mg) is just like any other number...When you do go down, take some time to really explore how you're feeling, not just in relationship to booze, but to all the rest too.

Thanks, Justin.

[RedThread12]

An introduction

Ahhh. . . Justin . . . Yippee!!! I get "goose-bumps" reading (some of :H) your story/post. I feel so HAPPY knowing that you are free.

I will be back to read fully, but I also applaud your move to move into the addictions field, because, over the long haul - and it will most likely be a. long. haul.), that is likely the quickest and most direct path to changing the paradigm that even Bill W. said would some day crumble in the face of medical progress. Infiltrate 'em, I say!!! I have some other ideas to quick(er)-start the process, as well, which I'll be in touch about when time allows.

PLEASE, keep keeping us posted; and multi-mini-bio posts may prove, in the long run, to have a lot more value than we might understand now. So never ever apologize for those!! Onward!!!!

[jaddyday]

An introduction

So that was an interesting weekend!

I went to London for the day on Friday, shopping for clothes. Usually when I do this it goes something like this: shop, drink, shop, drink, shop, drink, shop, drink, shop, drink, shop, drink, shop, then one almighty piss-up lasting through 'till dawn and the milk train home having lost half of the aforementioned shopping. This time there was definitely more shopping than drinking as my empty bank account, maxed-out plastic and bulging wardrobe will attest! I decided to forgo the piss-up in favour of retaining all my purchases and I was home by 9.00pm and stone cold sober! Never in my life have I returned from London sober and it was effortless.

If that wasn't weird enough, I went for dinner at a friend's house on Saturday night where I had the most surreal experience of alcohol indifference so far. She had bought me a bottle of Shiraz to have with dinner. Being a crap guest, I omitted to bring anything with me thinking that I would just go to the nearby shop when we ran out. Cut to the next morning and imagine my surprise when I wake up on the sofa and can see my bottle of wine still has a couple of inches left in the bottom and I hadn't even drained my glass! NEVER IN MY LIFE has one bottle of wine been enough and and the concept of leaving a bottle unfinished is just alien!

Ne and Red, thanks for your comments. Ne - my ability to "just do it" can be a double edged sword. I have no doubt that working in the treatment industry is absolutely the right thing for me to do. On the other hand, eight years ago I thought that buying a bar was absolutely the right thing to do and when I "just did it" it went rather wrong! Re the dosage, point taken.

Red - thank you for your kind words. I would of course be very interested to hear your ideas about advancing Baclofen.

Have a good week.

Justin

[Ne/Neva Eva]

An introduction

jaddyday;1353920 wrote: On the other hand, eight years ago I thought that buying a bar was absolutely the right thing to do and when I "just did it" it went rather wrong!

It really did didn't it? oy. This IS a bit different, right?

Whatever. That was then. And if you're looking for people to encourage you to slooooow down, you probably want to look for someone other than myself and RedT. We're rather fond (sorry for speaking for you, Redt) of well, just doing it.

And I have to say it's lit a bit of a fire under my (I was going to say fanny, but I understand that is one of those words that doesn't cross the pond. Like cigarette. Which I still cannot believe you guys call a fag. Apparently you're very confused about that one...Perhaps when the person smoking it is fabulous?) ass.

Alright, I'm a bit punchy tonight. Very, very, VERY jealous of your shopping trip. It's not really fair, actually, since I'm on financial lockdown until this damn house is actually bought. pffffffffffft. Ne Needs a new pair of Shoes. In fabulous.

Rock on with your big ol' bottle-still-has-some self.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

An introduction

Oh my. I just re-read your previous post in a bit more detail than the first time. hmmm. My post was perhaps not appropriate? hmmm. I'll leave it. maybe.

:l Justin.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

An introduction

jaddyday;1352199 wrote:
I admitted that I was an alcoholic, but I had absolutely no comprehension of what that word actually meant.
...
Whenever I want to do something I do it; I had decided that I was finished with alcohol so the problem was now sorted.
...

Somewhat unsurprisingly that was not the end of my association with alcohol!
...

I went to lots of meetings, got a sponsor, did service and worked the steps.

...
Everybody was telling me how well I was doing but I was dying inside. My craving for alcohol, far from abating over time, grew ever stronger until it pervaded every moment of every day. Even sleep offered no respite.
...
When I started drinking again I loved it. I had my social life back. ... I knew that I was destroying my life but I also now knew from personal experience that enforced abstinence was just as bad.
...
Fast forward through six months of research, procrastination and endless difficulty in getting hold of the medication and I am free from the bondage of addiction. I no longer think about alcohol obsessively. I am able to go out for an evening with my friends, wake up the next day and have no compulsion to drink what so ever. In short, I have achieved the holy grail – the ability to drink socially.
...
Make no mistake, Amesien’s discovery will revolutionise the treatment of addictions. For the first time, addicts are able to be truly free from addiction and go on to build happy and productive lives. Those of us who follow this treatment measure our success by whether or not we are drinking against our will. The concept of drunk or sober holds no relevance for us.

Justin,
The profundity of what you have written has really just now had a chance to seep into my consciousness.

The things that I've highlighted, in particular, struck me. (I feel as though I've been gob-smacked.)

With one exception: I would suggest that the holy grail is not whether or not we can drink "normally", or even whether or not it is "drinking against our will." Those things are so intangible, so difficult to explain and frankly it is such a revolutionary idea, that it's not possible to describe. (Though you have done an excellent job in the attempt.)
I am, frankly, exhausted by my attempts to help people see this for themselves. I don't know how to convey, with any conviction, the absolute freedom of living without the burden of thinking about alcohol. Especially not in this format.

I lament the amount of misinformation here. And the fact that people choose to not have a choice! To choose to continue with the burden of chronic obsession with the thing that destroys our well-being confounds me! What lengths would I go to in order to be completely free of this dread disease? Any and all. And it's as simple as taking a medication.

I assumed, erroneously, that the astounding and repeated successes achieved last spring by so many of us would open a flood gate and the world would be opened to this treatment. The fact that it is repeatedly undermined with incorrect information, by people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, and in some cases maliciously worked to undermine the truth, has had the effect of eliminating the truth from this place.

Coupled with the fact that there is not, as you mentioned, medical oversight or even medical knowledge to be found here the result is likely that people's attempts to get treatment by taking baclofen and coming here for information may make them more ill.

It's time, I think, to work toward taking this to my immediate and intimate world.

Thank you for your insights.

Karen

[Ne/Neva Eva]

An introduction

My rather pessimistic take on what MWO has to offer aside, can I suggest that you put that information in this section of MWO?

Just Starting Out? - My Way Out Forums

And perhaps also on here:

Need Help ASAP! - My Way Out Forums

I'll join you there in a couple of days.

~K

And of course, here:

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...fen-47958.html

I'd also like your permission to print it out and share it. First with my therapist. But eventually with as many people as I can...Let's talk about that offline. It suddenly feels quite imperative that this life-saving, life-giving information get OUT of this tiny little place.

[jaddyday]

An introduction

Hi K,

Thanks for your insights. It is very frustrating that this is taking so long to become mainstream whilst millions worldwide suffer and die needlessly. As I see it, there are three main barriers to progress to overcome:

1. The vast majority of "professionals" in the treatment industry are 12-steppers and believe that they already have the solution, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. In my experience these people are totally intransigent.

2. Medics generally hear about new drug treatments through the pharmaceutical companies which will understandably never push a drug from which they can derive little in terms of financial gain.

3. Ignorance surrounding addiction in society is manifest with most believing that it is not a de facto illness and that will power is all that is needed to recover. This is a view shared by many medics and policy makers.

It is likely to take decades rather than years to get this treatment into the mainstream but it will happen. Slowly at first then it will snowball.

I have posted my story in the sections you recommended and have no objection to you printing it out and sharing it, in fact my inner narcissist finds the prospect rather appealing!

Hope you are well.

Justin

[jaddyday]

An introduction

So, since my last post I have buggered things up somewhat!

I proclaimed myself cured at 270mg/day but felt that I had actually switched at about 150mg/day. I titrated down to 230mg/day over the course of a week and things started to go wrong very quickly. Alcohol became the dominant focus of my life again and I quickly felt myself loosing control.

I have titrated back up but 270mg/day but it no longer had the same effect. I am now at 325mg/day and can feel my control returning.

I don't, however, really know how to proceed from here. Advise please guys.

Justin

[StuckinLA]

An introduction

Hi Justin,

So sorry to hear about your recent troubles. I don't have experience in your dose ranges, but I too felt myself "switch" at 150 (when I'd been sober for 2 months), and very quickly learned I'd been mistaken. Anyway, I might recommend you PM some of the folks over there on the Bac at 300mg+ thread that's at the top of the forum right now.

Seeing a few people's signatures, it does look like some people "switch" at one dose, then a few months later "switch" again at a higher dose. Now there's also some debate going on over staying at or near the switch dose. This is a heated topic that I don't want to weigh in on, as I believe there's only a handful of people in the world who recommend staying at the switch dose.

But, you might hang around in the higher ranges that are effective for you as long as you can. How are your SEs? Are you functioning during the day? Getting too sleepy in the afternoons? How's the mental fog?

If you can deal with being at a high dose, that might be the answer for the short term. I honestly don't know what else to say. The only other person I'd say to PM would be bleep, but I'm sure there are others.

[ifulovelife2]

An introduction

Hi Justin

Bummer about the relapse, but as you know it's not the end of the world. Baclofen worked once and it'll work again.

How quickly have you titrated up this time? If it has been very quickly you may have passed the point of 'indifference' without realising it and the actual number you need to be on could be much lower than 325.

I'm one of those people who believe you shouldn't be in any hurry to drop down once you 'switch': too many relapse when they do that. As long as one can handle the S.E.s, I believe the 'switch' is a good place to stay.

Good luck and please keep us updated.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

An introduction

Hullloooo!
I'm sorry too for the relapse. It happens. A lot. Not just in this pursuit of recovery. I hope you don't feel like it's the end of something, except maybe innocence about the depth and pervasiveness of the damn disease. You certainly didn't do anything wrong. (Isn't it sort of wise to figure out what works? Sadly, in order to do that with this treatment you've got to test the waters a bit. There aren't any rules. yay! sort of. )

My experience (in brief):
I went up to 320mg. Down to ~100mg rapidly. During that time I drank sort of regularly (a couple of times a week, usually only part of a beer or glass of wine). I got very nervous after I got drunk for the second time in two months and felt absolutely miserable. (Each time, just for the official record, when I was premenstrual.) So I stopped drinking for a month. Probably more, but it was effortless and by the time the month was up my alcohol-dependent husband had reached indifference too. Then there wasn't any booze at meals, because neither of us wanted it/craved it/liked it.

My two cents/pence:
What ifyoulovelife said.
Go up, find the indifferent place, then (and here's where we disagree just a tiny bit) go down. Slowly.
I think that time is what it takes to make it "stick". The level of bac? Maybe that's not as important as we think in a lot of ways. Obviously you want to take enough to get there. Then you want to stay up enough that it "sets" or something. Then you (might) want to go down slowly to find a place that is both comfortable and completely craving-free. Then you might want to stay there for a while.

I also think some absolute abstinence time makes a big difference. That is definitely just conjecture, and based on my own experience more than anything else. But it makes sense, too. Right?

Good luck and let us know how it goes.