France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

[Otter]

France is the first country to authorize Baclofen for the treatment of alcoholism!

'Anti-alcoholism' drug cleared for use in France

Halleluah!

[Greg]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Great news, thanks for posting it here Otter.

Let's hope other countries now start to follow suit!

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Hi Greg,

I got a bit frustrated and googled, "Is baclofen treatment for alcoholism catching on" and that is what came up. There must be a God after all!


I think it is interesting that they did this on the back of just the preliminary tests. It goes to show what I have been going on about here for some time. Legally and ethically they had no choice. They could not delay some sort of implementation until the end of the full scale trial so they approved it on a case by case basis. When the full scale trial is done and the results are the same, which they will be, then they will roll it out as a recommended treatment for everyone and issue directives to the profession.

I cannot see doctors in other countries ignoring this. The trial results are there so they are risking lives by not prescribing this now. The balance is shifting in favour of prescribing baclofen, over and above any other medication.

I hope this will also give people, and lurkers here, the courage to send this information to people in their areas who might be able to do something about the situtaion.

I know baclofen is not perfect but it is better than nothing at all, which, pharmaceutically, where we stood a few years ago and a 80% success rate even in curtailing this problem is massive and much better than other drugs which have very low success rates.

We can only hope this now moves forward at a much faster pace.

[Greg]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

I agree 100 percent. I have also made a few statements about doctors risking the lives of alcoholic patients by refusing to try something just because it's "risky" or not officially approved. Considering that it seems a pretty safe drug and isn't addictive, and that there have been anecdotal reports of its effectiveness for quite some time now, it also annoyed me that almost no doctors would give it a go. Considering that ALL previous treatments for alcohol dependence (medical and otherwise) have a very poor overall success rate, it has been even more baffling that doctors have been so reluctant, especially if a patient has already tried all the other treatments and failed to benefit. What is certain is that untreated alcoholism will destroy a person's life and kill them sooner or later, so that is the risk of refusing a potential treatment to a patient.

[spacebebe01]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

I am wondering just how many more patients in france will get baclofen treatment or will this be another year or more while this testing is carried out and then another report and then .... Also considering the side effects of baclofen I think it seems pointless that their will be a placebo group, wont it just be so obvious so quickly that they are taking the placebo?

[spacebebe01]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Greg;1323250 wrote: Considering that ALL previous treatments for alcohol dependence (medical and otherwise) have a very poor overall success rate, it has been even more baffling that doctors have been so reluctant, especially if a patient has already tried all the other treatments and failed to benefit. What is certain is that untreated alcoholism will destroy a person's life and kill them sooner or later, so that is the risk of refusing a potential treatment to a patient.

I do think there should be some kind of rule around doctors having to try treatments that may not be recognised. Surely by refusing to give a safe med the are endangering a life. I always felt it was just my fault, I would get some sober time, relapse into a binge and then I would just be told I shouldnt have drank again, which I obviously knew. There was never any other mention of any med apart from campral, when I asked my gp about baclofen he wasnt prepared to go there, he said about meds commonly being used off label but I think they must have a list of them or something of the ones he is prepared to give. I have stopped talking about my drinking with my docs because I think it prevents me from getting treatment for anything else.

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Yes, that is why I am so frustrated and go on about the science all the time. I get obsessed with this and then annoy everyone. You are absolutely right.

You tell someone there is a treatment and they ignore you or say there isn't. Then you say there have been trials of it and they criticize the trials, then you say the French government have approved it and they will say the French are crazy....

Anyway, from a legal point of view, yes, when there is a safe and effective medication which is now supported by a national government, Universities in Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Amsterdam, is being used by thousands of people to suppress drinking and all this is on the internet and in scholarly journals, it would be negligent for a doctor not to prescribe, having weighed the benefits against the side effects and risks.

But what do you do? Threaten your doc with a law suit?? I just don't know. It is agonizing when you think about it and at every turn you get institutionalized bias and discrimination against those suffering with this illness while the authorities pay lip service to it by saying, "yes, it is an illness" but then not doing anything about it at all, not even doing a bit of internet trolling. Probably their browsers won't let them do that so they remain mired in the thinking of the pre-electronic age. God knows.

[spacebebe01]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Im glad you go on about science, I just dont understand it but Im learning, slowley

If I was to go round threatening my doc I then l will get a black mark against me and it will just be put down as an alcoholic kicking off and talking shit. As soon as I say anything about looking stuff up on the internet he tell me, AH theres a lot of stuff out there your best off not reading it.

I dont think I will ever feel completely happy about taking bac without a doctor but theres no way round it as far as I can see. I cant stop taking it and go back to how I was which is what I would probably be advised to do.

[Kradle123]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Hi and good morning
Sorry to change the direction for a minute but what is the difference between Baclofen and tops ax
The MWO start plan uses topa and that is what I have been using. First result were great. Now so so but I went back to drinking and not taking supps. Then when I got back on track the topa gave me awful vertigo until I cut the dose in half. So just wondering after reading so much good advice and experience if I should switch?
Xxoo

[Kradle123]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Sorry that should be topamax

[Greg]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Otter;1323322 wrote: Yes, that is why I am so frustrated and go on about the science all the time. I get obsessed with this and then annoy everyone. You are absolutely right.

You tell someone there is a treatment and they ignore you or say there isn't. Then you say there have been trials of it and they criticize the trials, then you say the French government have approved it and they will say the French are crazy....

Anyway, from a legal point of view, yes, when there is a safe and effective medication which is now supported by a national government, Universities in Glasgow, Edinburgh, and Amsterdam, is being used by thousands of people to suppress drinking and all this is on the internet and in scholarly journals, it would be negligent for a doctor not to prescribe, having weighed the benefits against the side effects and risks.

But what do you do? Threaten your doc with a law suit?? I just don't know. It is agonizing when you think about it and at every turn you get institutionalized bias and discrimination against those suffering with this illness while the authorities pay lip service to it by saying, "yes, it is an illness" but then not doing anything about it at all, not even doing a bit of internet trolling. Probably their browsers won't let them do that so they remain mired in the thinking of the pre-electronic age. God knows.

In my opinion, we keep on making appointments with doctors until we find one who is willing to try a new treatment. It doesn't matter if it takes 5, 10, or 20 doctors. All that matters is fighting for your life. After drinking ourselves to death for years, there is not much left to lose by trying this approach, and to be honest there are very few alternatives.

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Kradle123;1323344 wrote: Sorry that should be topamax

The point about Baclofen is it is a substitute for a missing chemical in the brain called GHB which calms you down. It is, I think, a derivative of GHB. This means that by taking it, you calm down the part of the brian which GHB acts on so you don't need alcohol. Ameisen pointed out that alcohol and GHB are indistinguishable and since Baclofen is similar to GHB, if you take enough, it is as though you are drinking, in terms of it calming down the brain. No other molecule is so similar to GHB that it does this.

Top may help calm anxiety but it does so in a different way in that it acts on a different part of the brain. That is all. It might have benefit for some but the advantage of Baclofen is that it is a similar drug with a similar effect to GHB and alcohol so it is closest to having the calming effect on craving that alcohol has but without the effects of alcohol.

It is just a chemical trick really, nothing magic, but it seems to work as he says it does for a huge percentage of people who take it and it is very safe and non addictive with side effects which disappear with time.

[spacebebe01]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

My doc is insisting that he thinks most of my back pain is caused by muscle spasms so what Im doing is following his advise for a few weeks and then next week or the week after I am going to ask him for baclofen for this. I have no idea if he will prescribe it but I honestly dont see why not, that is what its for isnt it, muscle spasm.

Do you think that low dose baclofen taken over a long time will work Otter or do you think it needs high dose? I ask this because I have taken 40mg a day for the past 8 months or so and am now trying 80mg but I am not really seeing any difference. My drinking is massively reduced but I still dont like the fact that I drink lager every evening and I was just having 2 and now its 4 and a few times 6.

I used to stop drinking for a while, say months and then get horrendous cravings and end up on a 24/7 vodka bender which was way worse than the daily drinking. I have never drank such a small amount as I do now and dont have any problem really not drinking during the daytime, which is when I used to do the worst of my drinking. I would wake up and have a 1/2 bottle to just be able to function and stop the shaking and vomiting. I dont have that anymore, but as I say although I am in more control now its still not enough.

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

spacebebe01;1323447 wrote: My doc is insisting that he thinks most of my back pain is caused by muscle spasms so what Im doing is following his advise for a few weeks and then next week or the week after I am going to ask him for baclofen for this. I have no idea if he will prescribe it but I honestly dont see why not, that is what its for isnt it, muscle spasm.

Do you think that low dose baclofen taken over a long time will work Otter or do you think it needs high dose? I ask this because I have taken 40mg a day for the past 8 months or so and am now trying 80mg but I am not really seeing any difference. My drinking is massively reduced but I still dont like the fact that I drink lager every evening and I was just having 2 and now its 4 and a few times 6.

I used to stop drinking for a while, say months and then get horrendous cravings and end up on a 24/7 vodka bender which was way worse than the daily drinking. I have never drank such a small amount as I do now and dont have any problem really not drinking during the daytime, which is when I used to do the worst of my drinking. I would wake up and have a 1/2 bottle to just be able to function and stop the shaking and vomiting. I dont have that anymore, but as I say although I am in more control now its still not enough.

That is how Ameisen and others...started getting prescribed Baclofen. Actually it makes perfect sense because according to Ameisen his craving/anxiety was what was underlying his muscle spasm. Doctors have no problem prescribing baclofen for that if you give them a gentle nudge. I went into my doctor and said I previously had it prescribed in another country so she just gave it to me again. Same with my wife. Just asked for it for spasm and got it up to 80 mg a day.

It does work for many at the lower doses. I think it depends a lot on how you take it. I think spreading it out is extremely important because otherwise you get a hit of it and then withdrawals and that triggers anxiety and reaching for a drink. You should also read Seven Weeks to Sobriety and follow the vitamin and diet regime for a while. Vitamin C and Bs are very important. Also avoid refined sugars and coffee.

I would definitely go for it and ask for baclofen at low dose and if it works then start telling your doc that it does.

I should add that my own view is that if it isn't working then you just have to go up to a higher dose and it will work. That is the general experience here although I think, over a long time, lower doses may have the same effect, depending on what else you have going on. I think going to the really high doses puts some people off because it is very difficult. But, like you have seen, your drinking has reduced so that gives you a footing on which to move forward. Get back onto Baclofen, push it up and really get it under control, and avoid stress...

I have also found taking it as a sleeping aid is good. It gives you a good night's sleep without side effects bothering you. I was able to come off it completely just by reducing and then taking 20 mg at bed time. After a few days I felt great. I have taken some recently for anxiety and sleep and it works fine with no side effects at all.

Hope that helps.

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

spacebebe01;1323447 wrote: My doc is insisting that he thinks most of my back pain is caused by muscle spasms so what Im doing is following his advise for a few weeks and then next week or the week after I am going to ask him for baclofen for this. I have no idea if he will prescribe it but I honestly dont see why not, that is what its for isnt it, muscle spasm.

Do you think that low dose baclofen taken over a long time will work Otter or do you think it needs high dose? I ask this because I have taken 40mg a day for the past 8 months or so and am now trying 80mg but I am not really seeing any difference. My drinking is massively reduced but I still dont like the fact that I drink lager every evening and I was just having 2 and now its 4 and a few times 6.

I used to stop drinking for a while, say months and then get horrendous cravings and end up on a 24/7 vodka bender which was way worse than the daily drinking. I have never drank such a small amount as I do now and dont have any problem really not drinking during the daytime, which is when I used to do the worst of my drinking. I would wake up and have a 1/2 bottle to just be able to function and stop the shaking and vomiting. I dont have that anymore, but as I say although I am in more control now its still not enough.

That is how Ameisen and others...started getting prescribed Baclofen. Actually it makes perfect sense because according to Ameisen his craving/anxiety was what was underlying his muscle spasm. Doctors have no problem prescribing baclofen for that if you give them a gentle nudge. I went into my doctor and said I previously had it prescribed in another country so she just gave it to me again. Same with my wife. Just asked for it for spasm and got it up to 80 mg a day.

It does work for many at the lower doses. I think it depends a lot on how you take it. I think spreading it out is extremely important because otherwise you get a hit of it and then withdrawals and that triggers anxiety and reaching for a drink. You should also read Seven Weeks to Sobriety and follow the vitamin and diet regime for a while. Vitamin C and Bs are very important. Also avoid refined sugars and coffee.

I would definitely go for it and ask for baclofen at low dose and if it works then start telling your doc that it does.

Hope that helps.

O

PS. thinking back on the past few years I have to say that for me Baclofen treatment is a bit like going a hundred rounds with Mike Tyson, Joe Fraser, and Mohammed Ali taking turns against you. What you have with baclofen is the Klitschko brothers in your corner and when they come out they hammer the opposition into the ground.