France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

[spacebebe01]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Thanks Otter, I will go to my doc and ask for it. Also I will go up a bit more and see where that takes me. I only went up to 80 yesterday so I will wait until Wednesday. I take 4 doses spread out over the day. Im trying to kick the sugar but havent thought of the coffee as I have already cut right down to around 2 cups of a morning. I used to drink massive amounts of coffee but just lost the taste for it a while back.

Have you stopped taking bac then Otter?

[BetterAndBetter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Otter;1323437 wrote: The point about Baclofen is it is a substitute for a missing chemical in the brain called GHB which calms you down. It is, I think, a derivative of GHB. This means that by taking it, you calm down the part of the brian which GHB acts on so you don't need alcohol. Ameisen pointed out that alcohol and GHB are indistinguishable and since Baclofen is similar to GHB, if you take enough, it is as though you are drinking, in terms of it calming down the brain. No other molecule is so similar to GHB that it does this.

Top may help calm anxiety but it does so in a different way in that it acts on a different part of the brain. That is all. It might have benefit for some but the advantage of Baclofen is that it is a similar drug with a similar effect to GHB and alcohol so it is closest to having the calming effect on craving that alcohol has but without the effects of alcohol.

It is just a chemical trick really, nothing magic, but it seems to work as he says it does for a huge percentage of people who take it and it is very safe and non addictive with side effects which disappear with time.

I find the GHB connection very fascinating. I think it's something that is naturally occuring in the brain and after ingestion of it, as a chemical analogue, is excreted through the body, basically as water. When I was in my twenties I actually used to manufacture GHB through a very simple process. I am far from what I would consider a chemist (I had varying reactions through different, well, chemical reactions). You take lab-grade gamma-butyrolactone (acidic Ph) and sodium hydroxide (basic Ph). Cook them up until you have the solution at a neutral Ph and voila... you have GHB. After getting into bodybuilding I was seeking an "alcohol free" and less-toxic alternative to the booze. It works! It's very euphoric and anxiolytic. It's also very tempermental in terms of dosage and can knock you out!! As in you are acting like a spaz.... everyone is looking very questionably at you and then you are under the influence of a VERY effective anaesthetic/sedative. I eventually gave it up after way too many sketchy experiences and personal embarassment. However... What I DO find really interesting about the Baclofen connection to GHB is that there are a lot of similiarities in the experience had on both. GHB always gave me a similar "dizziness". I also enjoyed the massive decrease in social anxiety which I am experiencing on, so far, fairly low doses of Bac. Both also give me a mild but, significant, "speediness" affect. Basically, I start yapping enthusiastically about various things. I don't know if it's due to the decrease in anxiety or a mild manic sort of experience, but I do know that when I've been too quick about increasing my dosage, my girlfriend noticed it and it felt mildly "out of control". I liked it and I didn't if that makes sense. Anyway... I'm just trying to add to the conversation and knowledge base here. But IMHO there's definitely a connection between the effects of Bac and GHB. I had no desire or need to drink while I took "G". I did however abuse it and experienced some wicked withdrawals when ceasing to ingest it after a good run at it. Not the same as alcohol but very much the sort of anxiety I don't ever wish to relive. Be well, all! Oh yeah... Baclofen lacks the "high" of GHB. In other words... addiction as "escape" doesn't seem likely. Perhaps a physical addiction if what I've read about withdrawals are true. Just always make sure you keep enough on hand to avoid a possibly bad scene. I really, really think that Dr. A is on to a good thing with this form of treatment for alcohol addiction. Yes, the side-effects can be a bitch and I'm already gun shy, but I think going as slow as you need to might be the key to success with this treatment. If I didn't have daily life responsibilities, knowing myself, I'd already be at 300 mgs daily and saddled with feeling weird, dizziness/nausea and shitting soup like nobody's business. I encourage everyone to keep networking and learning, together, about this pretty awesome opportunity.

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

spacebebe01;1323514 wrote: Thanks Otter, I will go to my doc and ask for it. Also I will go up a bit more and see where that takes me. I only went up to 80 yesterday so I will wait until Wednesday. I take 4 doses spread out over the day. Im trying to kick the sugar but havent thought of the coffee as I have already cut right down to around 2 cups of a morning. I used to drink massive amounts of coffee but just lost the taste for it a while back.

Have you stopped taking bac then Otter?

I stopped taking it for anxiety because things just got better so a lot of my anxiety went. It comes and goes though so I take a bit now and then and it helps a lot.

This is the Seven Weeks to Sobriety program by the way: http://www.healthrecovery (dot) com/ I am not advertising them but their non drug approach is probably the best out there.

Our problem is we just have huge stress, mainly caused because we are caught in a trap created by people who just don't know how to deal with this treatment and won't accept it because they have no idea what to do with it and are bound by their own processes. If you get into a bad situation through drink, you are still going to be in a very difficult position even with bac, and moreso. It becomes nightmarish because it is like being a leper who has been cured but is still locked inside a leper colony by people who aren't interested or are too stupid to understand that there is a cure. And even if they do understand, they move on and you get a new set of people who don't understand and you have to start all over again.

[BetterAndBetter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Otter;1323627 wrote: I stopped taking it for anxiety because things just got better so a lot of my anxiety went. It comes and goes though so I take a bit now and then and it helps a lot.

This is the Seven Weeks to Sobriety program by the way: http://www.healthrecovery (dot) com/ I am not advertising them but their non drug approach is probably the best out there.

Our problem is we just have huge stress, mainly caused because we are caught in a trap created by people who just don't know how to deal with this treatment and won't accept it because they have no idea what to do with it and are bound by their own processes. If you get into a bad situation through drink, you are still going to be in a very difficult position even with bac, and moreso. It becomes nightmarish because it is like being a leper who has been cured but is still locked inside a leper colony by people who aren't interested or are too stupid to understand that there is a cure. And even if they do understand, they move on and you get a new set of people who don't understand and you have to start all over again.

Man... "People are too stupid:"? Great frickin' approach. I don't think those who titrate up on a Baclofen regimen and then titrate down to a maintenance dosage qualify as lepers in a leper colony. Guess what, smart guy... Most of them probably aren't here any more. THAT'S WHY THEY MOVE ON. THEY HAVE FOUND A SATISFACTORY SOLUTION TO THEIR ADDICTION. They have lives to live and take a drug like blood pressure medication to maintain their sobriety. I don't have insurance by the way, and I have a job, so I can't drop everything and go to your summer camp you described in completely generic pseudo-psychological gobbledy-gook fashion. Shove it you salesperson. I've got a plan, backed by sound science, and I'm sticking to it, you obviously sensitive soul.

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

You got that by the wrong end of that stick. I was talking about people I have to talk to about the treatment who have been beating me to death with a f..king big stick called alcoholism. When I finally get it through to them that there is a treatment for it, they say, "Oh", move on and I have to explain it all over again to someone else. So, I am stuck in MY own leper colony with my "cure" but no one will let ME out.

And, by the way, don't relapse and get into trouble because you could end up back here.

I am not a sales person and I am in no summer camp.

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Hey SB, see why I stopped posting. It gets nasty in here. I come here for support too and I get abused.

[spacebebe01]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Is your probllem the peeps who say OH but take no notice or peeps like me who ask you about it, Im getting a bit paraniod here

[spacebebe01]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Im not going to abuse you and I see where both you and B&B are coming from. I think the leper analogy was a tricky one and didnt really understand it myself. Please dont stop coming here, you have so much knowledge and experience that I need to know about

I edited to add this on.

I totally understand that someone gets baclofen and gets cured and doesnt need to come here anymore, in a way its success is its failing in that unlike other methods people use who are stuck forever needing to reafirm their sobriety by talking about it everyday baclofen is a done and dusted kind of thing. Its just such a shame that we then miss out by not hearing of how well it has worked because they are, as they should be off living their lives.

For that reason I am very grateful to anyone who has done it and keeps coming on here to share with us and help us in our journey

Oh yep B&B I dont think Otter is a salesperson, I think it was just a misunderstanding

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Yes, it was a misunderstanding.

I was not referring to people who succeed on Baclofen. There are those who have not, maybe because they have an underlying disorder or because they are under stress from people who still treat them as alcoholics and neither help or let them get on with their treatment.

[BetterAndBetter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Otter;1323763 wrote: You got that by the wrong end of that stick. I was talking about people I have to talk to about the treatment who have been beating me to death with a f..king big stick called alcoholism. When I finally get it through to them that there is a treatment for it, they say, "Oh", move on and I have to explain it all over again to someone else. So, I am stuck in MY own leper colony with my "cure" but no one will let ME out.

And, by the way, don't relapse and get into trouble because you could end up back here.

I am not a sales person and I am in no summer camp.

I honestly still don't understand what you are trying to say here. I can't "relapse".... I still drink a lot, but Baclofen seems to be a reasonable "way out" and I'm continuing with it. I'm in no particular hurry. I've only been using it for a little over two weeks. No guidance from a physican, but it's up to all of us, under our current (for me USA) system of, sold out, bought out, shoddy medical care, to fully educate ourselves and others in a cooperative manner. I'm in no contest with anyone else but myself. From my observations, it seems that there are a lot of scams in the rehab industry. It makes a lot of money. I've been to rehab and all it led to was "attend meetings". And I think it works for certain people, but... I don't know... smokey rooms and some sort of generic religion established by some dude in the early 20th century certainly felt wrong for me. I appreciate science that is established and peer-reviewed. Just because a "program" can be attended on sick leave and insurance benefits... well, I just don't buy that. I think there's a lot of "rub my back and I'll rub yours" within that neck of the corporate woods. That's why I do my own research and happened to stumble upon the Baclofen "cure", which I found to be scientifically credible. I hope I wasn't too harsh if you were being real about your comments. Calling people who are trying to recover from an addiction "stupid" might be true, from your perspective, but may be as harsh as my words to you. Did the program you are talking about cure you or someone you love? It seems there are all sorts of ways that people heal from what I see as a simple physical addiction to ethanol... a toxin... I'm not the greatest fan of what I see as spiritual/psychological mumbo-jumbo. When you talked about underlying "patterns" that contribute to addiction... well my first reaction was... yes... of course... life is patterns and habituation/acclimation. I can't buy that a seven-week program that addresses "patterns" holds the key to freedom. I'm not saying I'm right, but, seriously, it sounds pretty sketchy to me. Anyway... if you have something to contribute in a positive fashion (and I can certainly be caustic... I drink too much) please do. And just for humor's sake... I took offense at the "alcohol" page at the website you were promoting.... when there was a testimony from someone, I assume is a female, (unless gay marriage is legal in your state or country), talking about their husband, who was healed of alcohol addiction, under a picture of a male. There was no attribution to a real person, as in name and location, and I usually see testimonies associated with a picture of those doing the testifying. I wish you well and we're all here for healing. Please keep sharing your truth.

[BetterAndBetter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

spacebebe01;1323769 wrote: Im not going to abuse you and I see where both you and B&B are coming from. I think the leper analogy was a tricky one and didnt really understand it myself. Please dont stop coming here, you have so much knowledge and experience that I need to know about

I edited to add this on.

I totally understand that someone gets baclofen and gets cured and doesnt need to come here anymore, in a way its success is its failing in that unlike other methods people use who are stuck forever needing to reafirm their sobriety by talking about it everyday baclofen is a done and dusted kind of thing. Its just such a shame that we then miss out by not hearing of how well it has worked because they are, as they should be off living their lives.

For that reason I am very grateful to anyone who has done it and keeps coming on here to share with us and help us in our journey

Oh yep B&B I dont think Otter is a salesperson, I think it was just a misunderstanding

I appreaciate your compassion and empathy. Something we can all learn from.

[Otter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Hi,

The HR Center in Minnesota was set up by Joan Larson who wrote "Seven Weeks to Sobriety" which is a book about recovering from alcoholism through vitamin therapy. It is well worth reading although the stuff she sells off the back of it is very expensive and I was not recommending going to her clinic at all. I am sorry if I gave that impression.

I was not referring to people undergoing treatment as stupid. I was referring to people who don't understand baclofen treatment either because they don't want to or cannot understand it.

I was referring entirely to the situation I and my family find myself in because of a situation we got into a couple of years ago and which keeps coming back to haunt us because people in positions who have to deal with what happened cannot understand what baclofen treatment is. When I explain it to them, they either don't care, disagree with it, don't understand it. If eventually, they do figure it out, they usually then just hand it over to someone else and I have to explain it again. All this causes anxiety and relapse so then they say baclofen doesn't work and I am back to square one.

For instance, if you go to a hospital A&E here and explain the treatment to a doctor, they might get it and go along with it, but then they change shifts and you get another doctor who hasn't heard of it...

The other problem is that some people don't succeed so well on baclofen because they have a disorder which doesn't clear up completely with baclofen, such as stroke victims who have an associated anxiety disorder due to brain damage. If you have a combination of this and major stress then baclofen is less effective and the lack of understanding and support out there for "alcoholics" is unhelpful. That is why I compared it to leprosy because people treat it that way, as though there is no treatment and if they have some control over you then it is like being in prison in your own home.

That is why I posted the French decision. Word of this has to get around and people have to start understanding this treatment and giving people a chance on it.

The situation in the UK is a bit different from the US in that we have free medical treatment and some doctors are starting to prescribe. We are lucky that way but we have worse problems than that unfortunately.

[Trixiebelle]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Well this is an interesting thread.

I'll subscribe you lot seem to have some good advice, even though I have signed up for the Topirimate, Baclofen seems to be the preferential drug here. I'm starting to wonder if I made the right decision. Only one way to find out.

[BetterAndBetter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Trixiebelle;1324174 wrote: Well this is an interesting thread.

I'll subscribe you lot seem to have some good advice, even though I have signed up for the Topirimate, Baclofen seems to be the preferential drug here. I'm starting to wonder if I made the right decision. Only one way to find out.

I tried Naltrexone, using the Sinclair Method, first... gave it a go. It certainly changed my response to alcohol (I was more lucid on it, but not drinking less). I had, to the best of my understanding, concluded after reading a lot of personal experiences that it can take up to more than a year, of ups and downs, of drinking levels, to reach abstinence... i.e. no desire for alcohol. Baclofen sounded like a better "match" for me, and I don't want to wait that long to possibly find out Naltrexone's not "my way out". But it is a brilliant, pioneering method that seems to work for many people. I don't know how many have tried a combo of Nal and Bac, but that would be interesting as long as they are not contradicted medically. Maybe more creative pharma combos, if safe when combined, would lead to a higher recovery rate. It's an interesting topic, for sure. We're on our way guys. We'll make it happen!

[BetterAndBetter]

France approves Baclofen for Alcoholism treatment

Otter;1324004 wrote: Hi,

The HR Center in Minnesota was set up by Joan Larson who wrote "Seven Weeks to Sobriety" which is a book about recovering from alcoholism through vitamin therapy. It is well worth reading although the stuff she sells off the back of it is very expensive and I was not recommending going to her clinic at all. I am sorry if I gave that impression.

I was not referring to people undergoing treatment as stupid. I was referring to people who don't understand baclofen treatment either because they don't want to or cannot understand it.

I was referring entirely to the situation I and my family find myself in because of a situation we got into a couple of years ago and which keeps coming back to haunt us because people in positions who have to deal with what happened cannot understand what baclofen treatment is. When I explain it to them, they either don't care, disagree with it, don't understand it. If eventually, they do figure it out, they usually then just hand it over to someone else and I have to explain it again. All this causes anxiety and relapse so then they say baclofen doesn't work and I am back to square one.

For instance, if you go to a hospital A&E here and explain the treatment to a doctor, they might get it and go along with it, but then they change shifts and you get another doctor who hasn't heard of it...

The other problem is that some people don't succeed so well on baclofen because they have a disorder which doesn't clear up completely with baclofen, such as stroke victims who have an associated anxiety disorder due to brain damage. If you have a combination of this and major stress then baclofen is less effective and the lack of understanding and support out there for "alcoholics" is unhelpful. That is why I compared it to leprosy because people treat it that way, as though there is no treatment and if they have some control over you then it is like being in prison in your own home.

That is why I posted the French decision. Word of this has to get around and people have to start understanding this treatment and giving people a chance on it.

The situation in the UK is a bit different from the US in that we have free medical treatment and some doctors are starting to prescribe. We are lucky that way but we have worse problems than that unfortunately.

Thanks, Otter. That detailed explanation helps a lot. The problem with the internet, delayed call-and-response, message board, sort of communication is that it's hardly as effective as real-time conversation and the resulting real-time clarification of communication, but I'm damn glad we have the ability to do this! That way everyone can read and benefit from it. And I will order the book you recommended. With all these options available I don't think "mono-treatment" is probably necessary, anymore. Hit a problem from all available medically compatible (with some not being "medical") angles until it no longer is one. A multilateral synergistic approach. So yes, I did misunderstand you, initially. My apologies.