My take on Baclofen

[Bunge]

Thought I'd jump into the Bac discussions.

Story: 2 rehabs. Second in January 2011.

Months sober: 16

Baclofen dosage since March 2011: 3 x 25mg/day or 75mg/day.

Pros: I really think Baclofen works. I think about drinking every day but it just is not the beast that it used to be. The thoughts are fleeting and often are followed by a feeling of indifference or disgust at the thought of drinking again.

Cons: I am involved in AA and am enjoying my sobriety. The danger, of course, is that my disease is trying to convince me that, because of the Bac, I may be able to drink again like a gentleman.

Conflict: My feeling is that there is a real danger to the drug because it does seem to work so well! Contradiction? Maybe. I just can't afford to risk drinking again and losing my family and my life. The false sense of security is what's dangerous.

Conclusion: Baclofen is worthwhile and effective in assisting abstinence but also possibly a great danger to your sobriety if one feels they can resume drinking.

JMHO

[Rusty]

My take on Baclofen

Bunge,

Congratulations on your continuing sobriety!:goodjob:

In my opinion, I have never looked at Baclofen as trying to trick me into drinking normally again. Could this be the opinion of your particular AA group? Here's my opinion, for what it's worth....if you're going to come up with this conclusion:

Baclofen is worthwhile and effective in assisting abstinence but also possibly a great danger to your sobriety if one feels they can resume drinking.

Then, you can surely say that about Antabuse, Naltrexone, Topa or any of the other meds. Particularly with Antabuse, you have to PLAN to want to drink, because of the horrible side effects if you drink on it.

I 've been on Baclofen for 1 3/4 years...my highest dosage was 90 mg/day but have been at 30mg/day for about 17 months. Today is my two-year drunkfree anniversary, and I owe it to Baclofen, because after some therapy and feedback from my closest friends, and my wonderful doctor, I was able to determine that the root cause of my drinking was my lifelong battle with extreme anxiety....caused by an overbearing and strict disciplinarian father who treated my mother like crap most of her married life and my siblings as well. Baclofen keeps my anxiety at bay. I have also been 95% AF in the last 2 years. What Baclofen did was alleviate the anxiety and help with the cravings so I could change my thinking towards drinking. I also had to change my habits and daily routine.

Best of luck to you in your journey.

[Bunge]

My take on Baclofen

Thanks for the feedback and kudos!

You said;

I have never looked at Baclofen as trying to trick me into drinking normally again.

I didn't mean the BAC is trying to trick me, I meant my disease is trying to trick me.

My point being that my disease will always try to find a way to convince me to try drinking again and the success of the Baclofen may be a back door to that which is what I wonder about.

Congrats on your success and best of luck to you too!

[Rusty]

My take on Baclofen

Bunge,

Whether it's your disease or Baclofen speaking, the point is the same..."the trickery the that you can drink again." That trickery is not limited to meds....it's the nature of the AL beast itself. Look at all the people here who have relapsed after a year or more of sobriety and they were not on any meds. If Baclofen gives you a feeling of AF wellbeing, and you worry about it being "a back door" to a possible slip/relapse, then why not go off of it if you are that concerned? The Beast doesn't need Baclofen to find a back door. Any crack in the commitment to be AF is all it needs.

[chigg]

My take on Baclofen

i can completely relate to Baclofen creating a sense of security in being AF. not many alcoholics that have gone through multiple relapses and sobriety attempts would argue against the ol' 'i'm just one drink away from being an alcoholic'. but... with baclofen... it's so easy to think you have a get out of jail free card. if i remember right from OA's book he even said he could go out and have a few drinks socially. and there are several posters on these forums that talk about returning to near 'normal' levels of drinking with baclofen.

i'm at 180mg/day and don't have a craving to drink, but there is a festival in our town and a fun pub we used to go with and it's so tempting to just go try to be like the 'normal' drinkers and have a couple. is this the alcoholic mind? is it just wanting to be social and join in on custom? there's a safe answer to that and just staying AF, but.. if there's a chance to have a healthy relationship with alcohol again it'd sure be nice. that's the the effect baclofen is having on me. it's certainly not enough to stop taking it because i'd rather have this playful conversation than white knuckle cravings.

if you can keep us posted on how you're working through this or god forbid if you do jump off the cliff and try to use bac as a safety net back into normal drinking please let us know.

[Otter]

My take on Baclofen

I think it takes about 2 years on baclofen to see the full effect. At first it is a prophylactic, making up for something missing in the brain. The cravings are there but being contolled. But after a long period of using it and not drinking the brain starts to mend itself, my idea, and even if you binge it is not as bad as before baclofen.

It is, in my opinion, the most effective anti-anxiety drug you can get but at a certain point I found I had to stop taking it because it made me really anxious. When I did stop I felt fine so it seemed to have a permanent corrective effect. It got rid of all the twitches and anxieties I had before I started taking it. My relationship with alcohol is that I feel the way I did when I was a child. I don't want to drink at all and the thought of alcohol leaves me cold. I used to drink every day of the week. Now I have no desier to drink ever again and feel comfortable that I never will want to drink again. It is a weird feeling, like being a kid again and just not ever having drinking enter my mind.

[Rusty]

My take on Baclofen

Chigg,

Your experience with Baclofen is exactly what Dr. Fred Levin told me a person could expect from Baclofen. Dr. L helped me a great deal. I initially bought Bac online through River Pharmacy, but since Dr. L is a psychiatrist, he could also prescribe and did. He and I also talked about some of my drinking. Today is my 2 year drunk-free anniversary. I have been AF 95% of the time, and I owe it to Baclofen and my commitment to kick this problem in the ass.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

My take on Baclofen

My experience is this:
20+ year daily alcoholic drinker. At times to the point of absolute isolation and ultimate despair (blankets over the windows, not eating, no job, no life, depths of despair) at times I have been able to hold it together and keep a job, though always "underachieving." Underachievement would be the second defining theme in my life. Alcohol was the first, foremost, and most consistent since I was 14 years old.
Several rehabs. More than 15 years in and out (mostly out) of the rooms. I started bac in Oct 2010. I hit the switch at 320mg on Feb 4 2011. I have been indifferent toward alcohol since then.

I have also been drunk a handful of times since then. (5? 7? I'm not sure. The last time was in Oct 2011, I think. It was awful. Boring and the hangover was hell.)
I drink very occasionally. A glass of wine, once a month, maybe.

The reason I don't know how much I drink any more is because I don't care any more. At all. Ever. I can be around it, cook with it, smell it, taste it, ignore it, throw it out. I can be completely sober, and not drinking, with drunk people. (mostly not a fun way to spend an evening! :H) Or in a bar.
Doesn't matter.

Because booze doesn't own me anymore. I don't stop at one glass when I still want more. I stop at one glass because I don't want another. The last time I ordered a second glass of wine, it was $17 and I drank about three sips. What a waste. Fortunately my husband had some too.

Oh. And he is also a lifelong, daily-drinking and pot-smoking alcoholic. Hit the switch last June (2011) at around 340mg (I think?) and drinks when he wants. Which is not often. 'cause life is busy and drinking is not so much fun. He also quit smoking pot one day. Just quit. With the exception of the year (!!!) he spent in an Oxford House after a DUI (etc...) he has never, ever gone a day without smoking pot. And few without drinking. He hasn't smoked in...I don't know? Since last July, I think.

I'm not suggesting that anyone drink. I've been drunk on baclofen. The hangovers are HELL and the nights are not fun. But the only thing alcoholic left in my brain...Well, there isn't anything alcoholic there when the chemicals are balanced...by baclofen. And time.

My anxiety, however, is a different story. I never knew I had anxiety. I just thought I was nervous, "high-strung," "high maintenance," jumpy, scared of lots of things...

I have an anxiety disorder that baclofen helps to treat. But like Rusty, I'm in therapy, I practice meditation and exercise and blah, blah, blah... :H You know the drill! I try to stay healthy.

I hope you guys will find what I've found. I hope that you will also be happy...not drinking. It took me a loooong time (months anyway) to figure out that I was really happy without booze at all. That I didn't actually WANT it. The idea was so foreign, I couldn't imagine what that looked like. If someone told me a year ago I could never drink again, I think I would have been scared and devastated.
Now?
Whatever.

Baclofen works. It will work for you. It is medicine, though, not magic. So you gotta take it.

Just my experience.

:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

My take on Baclofen

Hi Rusty!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

My take on Baclofen

Hayzeus.

I forgot this very important thing:
Congratulations to you both! Whatever it takes, however it happens, being free from the burden of alcohol is the single most important thing in my life, and I honor it in the two of you.


I now regret every word of what I've written. But it is the truth.

The thing is, I used to be very, very conflicted about it. It scared me to drink at all. My husband was still drinking alcoholically and I would have a beer or two with him around dinner time. I still didn't feel normal when I finished something dreadful (cleaning the patio comes to mind) and I didn't reward myself with a glass of wine. (or something happy, or sad, or that made me angry...and on and on.)

I sent many emails to friends, and skyped with them, and relied on them here, about whether or not this made me alcoholic still, or was dangerous, or was going to lead me back to the slavery of thinking about booze all the time.
It didn't. Not for me. But I have never stopped taking baclofen. I have never gone down dramatically on my dose (I still take 140mg/day) and I never will...until the time is right.
Perhaps if I was comfortable with thinking that I will never crave again, that I will never think about alcohol obsessively again, I would stop taking baclofen and be completely free of all medications and still not be an alcoholic. But the thought still scares me, so I take my pills every day. Not so I can drink safely, or "normally" but so I don't ever truly want to drink an alcoholic beverage again in my life.

(And just in case you get curious, I don't use any other drugs to get high. But I smoke cigarettes like a chimney.)

Peace out!

[ifulovelife2]

My take on Baclofen

Bunge;1324270 wrote: Thought I'd jump into the Bac discussions.

Story: 2 rehabs. Second in January 2011.

Months sober: 16

Baclofen dosage since March 2011: 3 x 25mg/day or 75mg/day.

Pros: I really think Baclofen works. I think about drinking every day but it just is not the beast that it used to be. The thoughts are fleeting and often are followed by a feeling of indifference or disgust at the thought of drinking again.

Cons: I am involved in AA and am enjoying my sobriety. The danger, of course, is that my disease is trying to convince me that, because of the Bac, I may be able to drink again like a gentleman.

Conflict: My feeling is that there is a real danger to the drug because it does seem to work so well! Contradiction? Maybe. I just can't afford to risk drinking again and losing my family and my life. The false sense of security is what's dangerous.

Conclusion: Baclofen is worthwhile and effective in assisting abstinence but also possibly a great danger to your sobriety if one feels they can resume drinking.

JMHO

Dude, if you're stuck with the above thoughts, you just need to take more baclofen. Take enough and all the above conflicts, worries and questions disappear.

[thernand20]

My take on Baclofen

help me please

Rusty;1324461 wrote: Chigg,

Your experience with Baclofen is exactly what Dr. Fred Levin told me a person could expect from Baclofen. Dr. L helped me a great deal. I initially bought Bac online through River Pharmacy, but since Dr. L is a psychiatrist, he could also prescribe and did. He and I also talked about some of my drinking. Today is my 2 year drunk-free anniversary. I have been AF 95% of the time, and I owe it to Baclofen and my commitment to kick this problem in the ass.

HI, I AM DESPERATELY TRYING TO GET SOMEONE TO PRESCRIBE BACLOFEN TO MY SISTER, BUT NO LUCK. i HAVE EMAILED DR. LEVIN BUT SO FAR NO RESPONSE. WE LIFE IN WA SO I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE FOR DR. LEVIN TO HELP, BUT HE SEEMS LIKE OUR LAST HOPE. WHAT DO YOU RECOMMEND?

[StuckinLA]

My take on Baclofen

Can't help but jump in here. In my own case I did see bac as a kind of safety net, and maybe that led to me drinking--maybe not. After 30 days sobriety I knew--just knew--that it was only a matter of time before I started drinking again. So I started on bac and ended up drinking after 62 days sobriety. Since then I've had about a month of a bit of a roller coaster, but nothing like before.

So, my issue with AA--which I have been only marginally involved with, admittedly--is that the more one internalizes Step 1 the truer it becomes, no? I mean, if I truly, wholeheartedly accept that I am powerless over alcohol then one drink inevitably leads to another out of control bender that ends in the hospital--just like last time.

I've seen too many people in AA who feel utterly fragile, who feel like they're using up every last resource of willpower every single day, and I've felt that way too. Not drinking for one night during a panic attack left me shellshocked for days. So I ask you, what the heck is wrong with a safety net?

Yes, I'm "drinking" again, or "out there" in AA parlance. But I'm also able to make choices. And--and this is very important to me--I'm able to go to the bar where most of my social life resides and watch a hockey game or read a book and talk with the bartenders. I work from home, and some days that's the only human interaction I have. And I can sit there for a few hours--maybe every few nights, maybe a couple nights in a row--drinking a tonic water or a cranberry juice and not feel like I've blown my willpower-resources for the next few weeks. Because it really can be effortless.

Or, I can get wonderfully bombed on my birthday like last Saturday and then choose not to drink again for a while.

So, in my opinion, bac is another weapon in the arsenal. And people who say "we don't treat drugs with drugs" and "focusing on bac is standing in the way of your recovery," like the last rehab intake person I talked to--well, I want to punch those people in the face because they are very much part of the problem.

[spacebebe01]

My take on Baclofen

I think baclofen is a tool we can use to help heal our brains from craving alcohol, if I take it every day as I have planned eventually I will stop wanting to drink. That hasnt happened yet but Im on my way there. By taking bac right now my drinking is massively reduced and hopefully it will eventually stop. Because I wont want to drink.

I could and have gone and taken a load of bac instead of drinking but that would get me nowhere and isnt what I bought the bac for and is crap anyway when what I really want is a drink.

Hi Stuck, I have been to hundreds of AA meetings overs years and been to 12 step rehab. I cant stand a lot of what goes on there and disagree with so much. It upset me a lot for a long time so now I dont go, and over time the more I know what I am doing is right for me, and there advice, or "suggestions" is wrong the more I can forget what went on. For me AA did more harm than good, but I knew this and kept on going anyway because I was desperate. If its not for you then just dont go.

[StuckinLA]

My take on Baclofen

Hey Space,

Yeah, I was pretty desperate as well when I started AA--first day out of the hospital, actually. I never thought I'd even consider AA, as it just isn't my style, but I was surprised to find a lot of comfort there for a while. Being in a room full of other desperate people helped but I hit a point (150 mg/bac/day) where the magic sort of disappeared and I lost the connection to everyone else.

Of course, then I started drinking again. Now, though, I still don't want to go back because AA is literally too close to home, and I see people on the street--even as I'm drinking drastically less and not even every day, I will not stop hanging out at the bars in my neighborhood. It just seems rude to go to a meeting one day and then be standing outside a bar having a cigarette the next day while people I recognize from AA walk by. Hell, once I sat at the bar reading for a couple hours, drinking tonic water, and left straight from there to go to a meeting. It sort of seemed ridiculous after a while.

Anyway, I have lots of thoughts about AA (and I'm really interested in it as it relates to David Foster Wallace's novel, Infinite Jest), but that's probably enough rambling for this thread.