Switch and heavy drinking

[joethelion]

Sorry for the seemingly stupid question: I read the book, many articles, I am following the threads, but it`s still not very clear for me: is it possible to drink moderately up to and after a switch ?

Even at 60 mg I had the worst two hangovers of my 25 years of heavy drinking as a side effect from baclofen. How is it possible to have 200-300 mg daily (before having the switch) and drink heavily at the same time ? I know Dr.Amiesen didn`t drink anything after his switch (btw I just spoke to someone who knows him personally, and as a relief to me he`s abstinent to this day and doing well).

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Switch and heavy drinking

I drank all the way up to my switch.

At times I drank heavily. I started to notice at some point that there was booze left in the bottle(s) the next morning.
Then I noticed that there was booze left in the glass.
Then I just didn't want to drink one night.
After that I drank a couple of times a week, usually a beer. It made me very nervous to continue drinking. I was worried that even a couple of beers a week might "undo" what had been done. So I stopped for a month. By then my husband (also alcohol dependent) had hit his switch. I think my month of abstinence turned into much longer, but by then I didn't care and didn't think about it so I didn't keep track.
I should note that I also got drunk about once a month from March to maybe October, with the exception of the month of abstinence and maybe another month or so, too...Sorry I can't be more clear!
The last time, in October, the hangover was so physically and emotionally brutal, I really never want to do it again.
Since then I drink occasionally. I used to have rules about it. (Don't drink alone. Don't drink for special occasions. Don't drink to celebrate or mourn or because I'm angry/stressed/whatever.) Then I realized I don't care enough to even have rules.

That said, there have been a couple of occasions when I thought it would be fun and appropriate to get a little tipsy, and I simply can't drink enough. It doesn't feel good, and stops tasting yummy after a glass or two. It's now a family joke...I announce, "I want to P-A-R-T-Y!" And my husband snickers. We go out. I have a margarita. And order another. And forget to drink it. I have wasted some very expensive wine...
He can still drink enough to get tipsy, but he doesn't like the way it makes him feel. And we both have a choice now, so he doesn't. (Plus he's annoying when he's lit up. Don't tell him I said so! ) He's four months behind me, though, so I imagine he'll get to a similar place if he isn't already.

200-300mg of baclofen is much like 100mg of baclofen. It depends on the person and the circumstances. My side effects at 320mg were much more tolerable than they were at 70mg. The hangovers sucked worse than anything I have ever experienced, regardless of the dose. And sometimes I didn't identify them as hangovers, but as side effects of the baclofen. (Which they are, but only with the booze.)

Dr. A was on regular, daily low dose baclofen for a year before he titrated down and then back up again to reach his switch. It is something we often forget.

Wow. Long answer! Sorry!

[joethelion]

Switch and heavy drinking

Thanks for the reply, seems we have something in common; we also are a couple with this problem. My wife`s situation is much worse though. Nice to hear your success story

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Switch and heavy drinking

I read about you two on another thread!
Welcome here, btw.

I don't think there was a person who thought we'd stay together. Much less both get sober. Much less stay together sober! It's great to hear you guys are in it together, too.

I can't say that one of us was worse than the other. He was much more successful/dedicated/driven professionally. Still fell asleep drunk and stoned every night. I drank a bottle and a half to two of wine every night (every. single. night. ugh!) and more on weekends. And my family history sounds like it might be similar to your wife's. Lots of alkies, on both sides. I always assumed Nal would have worked for me because of the genetic thing...I guess I'm surprised it didn't for her.

How're things going? Is she taking bac, too? Or sticking with Nal?

[lostlady]

Switch and heavy drinking

I never reached a switch. But maybe the feeling I had after drinking while on Bac was enough of a switch to turn me off of al. Not sure.

[ifulovelife2]

Switch and heavy drinking

joethelion;1333034 wrote: Sorry for the seemingly stupid question: I read the book, many articles, I am following the threads, but it`s still not very clear for me: is it possible to drink moderately up to and after a switch ?

Even at 60 mg I had the worst two hangovers of my 25 years of heavy drinking as a side effect from baclofen. How is it possible to have 200-300 mg daily (before having the switch) and drink heavily at the same time ?
Yep it's possible to drink moderately up to the 'switch' and after it. Plus it's possible to drink heavily after it, should you so wish, but of course you won't want to, not often anyway. Or you can become abstinent if that's what you want (or feel you need) to do. When you switch you become indifferent to alcohol. You can take it or leave it. You decide if and how much. It becomes your decision, not your disease's. If you're one of the unlucky ones who suffer from exaggerated hangovers on baclofen then that will probably guide your decisions.

I switched in Feb 2011 and these days drink like a 'normal' person. (There's actually no such thing as a 'normal' person but you know what I mean). I can go for a beer with friends and stop drinking when I want to. I can neck a few frozen margeritas at the cantina on Cinco de Mayo and not feel the need to carry on until drunkeness. If I do want drunkeness (extremely rare) then I can crawl inside a vodka bottle for an evening. And then of course I can go without any booze for as long as I want.

Baclofen gives you the choice. You not the beast.

joethelion;1333034 wrote: I know Dr.Amiesen didn`t drink anything after his switch

Ummmmmm....:H

[ifulovelife2]

Switch and heavy drinking

lostlady;1333176 wrote: I never reached a switch. But maybe the feeling I had after drinking while on Bac was enough of a switch to turn me off of al. Not sure.

Maybe, maybe not. Probably not, not long term anyway. I would suggest you keep going up until you reach the switch. It's worth it.

[joethelion]

Switch and heavy drinking

ifulovelife2;1333548 wrote:

Ummmmmm....:H

hehe I meant alcoholic drinks..

[joethelion]

Switch and heavy drinking

ifulovelife2;1333548 wrote:

Baclofen gives you the choice. You not the beast.

Can I ask what`s your maintenance dosage ? Has it been the same all the time ?

[joethelion]

Switch and heavy drinking

Ne/Neva Eva;1333152 wrote: I read about you two on another thread!
Welcome here, btw.

How're things going? Is she taking bac, too? Or sticking with Nal?

Sorry I missed this one.

She`s taking nal but not very regularly (i.e. not always 1 hour before drinking), as she sometimes drinks during daytime and she`s by far not careful about this. I think she takes these pills just to make me happy. If you ask her she doesn`t have a drinking problem (2-3 bottles of wine daily; a dark apathy; tv all day long; no joy of life; doesn`t look a bit like how she did a year ago etc etc.. does seem like a drinking problem to me). I was also hopeful about the genetic thing Eskapa mentioned. Nal should have worked for her (maybe still will, who knows).

She started bac when she was trying to detox herself (well, half detox, as it was for passing from daytime drinking to night time drinking) and I was worried about her withdrawal syndromes. Btw I heard a very serious clinical trial where they proved detoxing alcoholics on bac didn`t need as much benzos as others. Anyway, we started together like 4 weeks ago. I don`t think I needed, but if I`m not wrong it really helps with my anxiety, not sure though.

We are hanging around at 60mg these days.

I`m pretty sure if she just believed she had a problem as much as I did, things would have been much easier. She is strong willed when she wants to be, and I understand both nal and bac help more when there is will.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Switch and heavy drinking

Morning, (for me!) Joe.

Will helps with everything, right? It wasn't really until my husband saw how happy I was and how effortless it was for me to not drink that he decided to take action. So I get your frustration. I felt sure that he and I were headed for acrimonious-attorney-land.

I would imagine it helps with your anxiety, and that you are not imagining it. It has that effect for a lot of people. Hopefully, she's taking the medication regularly. That will help more than just about anything, I think. I know a couple of people who took bac though they weren't particularly set on getting completely sober, much less quitting drinking altogether, who found that they just did! One of 'em was kind of pissed off about it, actually. She wasn't sure she was ready to not want to drink anymore! Pretty funny in retrospect...

I think almost any action is better than inaction, though, don't you? Taking care of your own habit/addiction? may be impetus enough... And either way, you'll feel much better!
Nice to have you around. Hope you'll keep updating.

[joethelion]

Switch and heavy drinking

I nearly arranged an appointment with an important dr in the UK (in fact one of the main figures in the book), who could help us with titration and everything about baclofen, and she just now told me that she`s not going to visit the doctor (yes, because she doesn`t need to, she`s not an alcoholic !). As simple as that ! This could as well be our last hope. Everything down the drain !! I`m not sure if I`ll be able to make it up to the switch without a doctor`s supervision.

Sorry about the whining, sometimes I think it`s all just in vain..

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Switch and heavy drinking

Ack! I understand. It's not whining, btw.

While I am fairly convinced I'm clairvoyant, Joe, I am hopelessly inaccurate.

Right now I'm living in a retirement community for 55 and older. (I'm not!!!) Average age around here is probably 70++. My neighbor, Rolly (and yes, he's in a wheelchair) is 87, I think. Now lemme tell you...If there is anything to put the whole grand scheme of things into perspective, it's having a very chipper 87 yo hand you a homegrown tomato. And then tell you about his bloody stool and rheumatoid arthritis. Followed by the fact that he is meeting his girlfriend (they can't get married because she'd lose her benefits) for an evening out.

Sorry, I digress. The real point is that when I was a drunk I would never (neva eva!) have predicted this amazing life I live now.
When I wasn't a drunk anymore, and my husband was, I predicted with absolute certainty (as did almost everyone around here) that we were done for.

And when I started taking baclofen for the third time, I was only going to do it for a month. And I was only going to take up to 120mg or something. 4 months and 320mg later, I was (in my mind) in a state of...permanent remission? Non-slavery about covers it, regardless of what the docs would call it.

You just don't know what you just don't know. Ya' know?
Hang in there.
:l

[joethelion]

Switch and heavy drinking

Thanks a lot for the kind words and support

May I ask, why did you start baclofen for a third time, after you already quit alcohol ?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Switch and heavy drinking

Nah. It took me three (or more! Who can remember??? :H) tries to titrate up to indifference. The first time was a bit of a catastrophe. I titrated up too slowly, then decided to take a bunch when I had a week off for vacation. That was coupled with drinking all day, every day. Very, very ugly results. (I was "fine". I started having panic attacks, among other things.)

The second (and other) times, I would take some, and stop. Or take too much, and quit. I finally started with a 'clean' slate in October 2010. By then I'd made some friends here, had a good support group and a better idea of what I was doing. (sorta.) I insisted on drinking like a fish, though, which made the process that much worse...But I knew by about mid-November that something good was happening. So I kept going. Each time with new self-imposed limitations. (I am GREAT at self-imposed limiting of all sorts. )
And then I decided I couldn't be bothered to drink one night. The rest is...my history. I was free. woop!
I've been on bac consistently since then, though the amount hasn't been consistent. I'm thinking about titrating down some more, but I figure everything is working out quite well, and I don't need to...But I also, well, I don't like taking more pills than I have to!