Update on my Baclofen progress

[RedThread12]

Update on my Baclofen progress

Wowsers, y'all . . . Ig, bleep, Greg, Ne, Space, Reggie, Jaddy . . . especially love bleep's "ray of sunshine" to Ig!!

Don't have much to contribute here, except to say this: I have been sober with baclofen, I have been sober with AA, and I have been sober, for more than a decade, with dedicated mental training via meditation. The former 2 options came AFTER the latter fell apart in the face of emotional trauma.

I think Bill W was seriously onto something real when he said that alcoholism is a spiritual disease. My own path is not secure. Whose is?!?! I actually earn income from helping people understand their place, in time and space. And I very, very humbly suggest that this disease is also an invitation. Beyond that, I have no idea what is right and good for anyone continuing to struggle. Except to say that I know, without a doubt, that your efforts are not in vain.

[StuckinLA]

Update on my Baclofen progress

Hi Greg,

I'm not great champion of AA, though I probably sound like one with some of my posts around here... Either way, the nice thing is that, of course, the only requirement for membership is a "desire" to quit drinking. Don't even have to actually quit, technically, just have to want to. And no one can say you're not a member of the club. So sure, you're supposed to get a sponsor and do the steps but no one should judge you if you don't.

Anyway that's my take on it.

[startingover]

Update on my Baclofen progress

Iggypop! Its great to see you back!
I know you have taken a bit of a trip over to the dark side, but you will be in the light again soon. I have every confidence in you

[Greg]

Update on my Baclofen progress

StuckinLA;1346980 wrote: Hi Greg,

I'm not great champion of AA, though I probably sound like one with some of my posts around here... Either way, the nice thing is that, of course, the only requirement for membership is a "desire" to quit drinking. Don't even have to actually quit, technically, just have to want to. And no one can say you're not a member of the club. So sure, you're supposed to get a sponsor and do the steps but no one should judge you if you don't.

Anyway that's my take on it.

I have encountered some AA meetings in which members have been scathing because I hadn't stopped drinking magically after one or two meetings, but others that do adhere to the rule that the only requirement for membership is a desire to quit drinking. I definitely have that desire, and am utterly sick of alcohol to the point where I don't even want to try and be a controlled or social drinker if I get out of this mess. I'd be happy never to drink again. The funny thing is, when I have asked judgmental members if they themselves quit drinking after their first or second meeting, they have nearly always admitted 'no'! Some people seem to quickly forget where they came from, and come down hard on newcomers who are struggling in the same way.

Having said that, I have also met many wonderful people in AA who just want to sincerely help others get off the booze and stay off it.

[ignominious]

Update on my Baclofen progress

Hi Spacebebe - just reading back over this thread and I must have missed your post first time. I remember seeing your name but I didn't get into your plight. Hope you're doing OK.

Hey Mrs Starts, how are you doing? Good by the looks of your byeline, which reminds me that I should modify mine. Your introduction to the pleasures of drugs was so perfectly orchestrated, I'm humbled by your sobriety.

Hey Greg. Stick with it. Maybe Bleep's right - he often comes up with some refreshing takes on old trains of thought. AA can be beneficial. I would join in a flash if there was a group nearby. Can't really give you any direction as I am , not yet out of the mire myself.

To update. Feeling fairly hopeful. It was a strain to drink 2 bottles of beer yesterday and today I took my staff to a nightclub andd had no trouble limiting myself to a couple of drinks. Quite interesting really as one of my most responsible guys was itching to start some trouble when he was tanked up. I had to step in and stop 3 bouncers from teaching him a lesson. Complete role reversal for me that I'm proud to say I handled admirably.

Maybe for me its the aversion to drinking that stops me. On the whole its becoming more like imbibing poison than a quick route to getting high.

[COSGringo]

Update on my Baclofen progress

Hey Ig,
Sounds like you are on the right path. Sometimes it winds around ya know.

[ignominious]

Update on my Baclofen progress

COSGringo;1347238 wrote: Hey Ig,
Sounds like you are on the right path. Sometimes it winds around ya know.

Very true

I went up to 240 a couple of days ago and feeling fairly imbecilic with the SEs:H

But I'm close. I had a bottle of beer that was at home last night and was a little dismayed that I enjoyed it. If I had been at a bar I would have had more but I didn't fancy making a forage through the rain to buy some.

I know some people would consider this to be as easy a time as ever to "just say no". But I've lost the plot and I have experience that Bac can take me back to ground zero where I am just not addicted any more. Its from that point that I want to learn self control again.

[RedThread12]

Update on my Baclofen progress

Looks like you're getting "warm," Ig, in terms of finding the plot, again. I am so happy . . . and excited about what this unexpected detour in YOUR journey offers as ALL. As Ne used to say, JKTTDP! And keep us posted.

[ignominious]

Update on my Baclofen progress

RedThread12;1347918 wrote: Looks like you're getting "warm," Ig, in terms of finding the plot, again. I am so happy . . . and excited about what this unexpected detour in YOUR journey offers as ALL. As Ne used to say, JKTTDP! And keep us posted.

Its nice to have the possibility to be reborn and work it all out from scratch again. Its also a lot of childhood tantrums, adolescent rebellions, loves lost and found, hard facts of day to drudgery day living, to be experienced again! To top it all I've got middle age crisis to add to that list aswell:H

A toast to: "All of us finding a reality that we are comfortable with and doesn't make others uncomfortable."

[Greg]

Update on my Baclofen progress

ignominious;1347187 wrote: Hey Greg. Stick with it. Maybe Bleep's right - he often comes up with some refreshing takes on old trains of thought. AA can be beneficial. I would join in a flash if there was a group nearby. Can't really give you any direction as I am , not yet out of the mire myself.

Hey Ig, thanks mate, yes I am sticking with it as I can't hack being back on the grog anymore. I'm still mainly relying on Antabuse, low dose bac, and occasional cannabis at the moment, also very low dose Valium (trying to get right off benzos however). I have managed to find a few AA meetings that are devoid of preachers and intolerant control freaks, which unfortunately make my local meeting less than helpful. Most meetings however are at least an hour's drive from me, which makes them hard to get to if you aren't sleeping well (which is my predicament whenever I am not drinking, even without baclofen causing any additional insomnia).

I'd like to wish you all the best with your own battle, which I realise is difficult for you at the moment. Keep us posted.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Update on my Baclofen progress

jaddyday;1346076 wrote:

I think it is important to remember that whilst Bac seems to be very effective in treating the neurological root of the illness, the vast majority of us have underlying emotional issues and/or mood disorders. I believe that appropriate medication has the potential to make recovery possible and sustainable for the majority of addicts but it should never be seen as a 'magic bullet' but as an adjunct to a full program of support tailored to the individual. IMHO of course.

Hi, Justin. I've been meaning to respond to this for a little while now.

Your points (and Ig's) are well taken, about the need for other support systems and some insight into how to live well once booze is removed.
I take exception (in general!) to the idea that the "vast majority of us have underlying emotional issues and/or mood disorders."

I am pretty clear that while some of us may fall into that category, the vast majority fall pretty much in the big part of the bell curve that indicates "normal" thoughts and behavior when we're not addicted to booze.
I'd add that while I wouldn't call anything a magic bullet, it is not (ironically!) necessary to deal with one's issues, or get comfortable in one's skin, or even to have access to support or therapy to get sober/clean with baclofen. It's just a matter of taking enough for long enough. The rest? That might make it easier to be content, to be comfortable with sobriety, to avoid boredom or depression or general misery. But baclofen will get and keep one sober, if one continues to take it. Period. It's a strange, strange thing. But true.

Heartened to see things are progressing, Ig.

[jaddyday]

Update on my Baclofen progress

Ne/Neva Eva;1348261 wrote: Hi, Justin. I've been meaning to respond to this for a little while now.

Your points (and Ig's) are well taken, about the need for other support systems and some insight into how to live well once booze is removed.
I take exception (in general!) to the idea that the "vast majority of us have underlying emotional issues and/or mood disorders."

I am pretty clear that while some of us may fall into that category, the vast majority fall pretty much in the big part of the bell curve that indicates "normal" thoughts and behavior when we're not addicted to booze.
I'd add that while I wouldn't call anything a magic bullet, it is not (ironically!) necessary to deal with one's issues, or get comfortable in one's skin, or even to have access to support or therapy to get sober/clean with baclofen. It's just a matter of taking enough for long enough. The rest? That might make it easier to be content, to be comfortable with sobriety, to avoid boredom or depression or general misery. But baclofen will get and keep one sober, if one continues to take it. Period. It's a strange, strange thing. But true.

Heartened to see things are progressing, Ig.

Hi Ne, hope you are well.

In essence, the point I was trying to make was that the majority of addicts that I have met have emotional 'issues'. In some cases (including my own) these issues predated alcoholic drinking. In others, the complete lack of compassion and understanding shown to addicts by society in general has had a very detrimental effect on their prospects for recovery. I was also told, when I was an inpatient at the Priory, that about one third of patients who access treatment for addictions have an often undiagnosed mood disorder - something that my own experience seems to confirm.

What I would advocate moving forward is the establishment of community based treatment centres offering a full package of care including medication, theropy, support groups et cetera. My treatment plan encompasses all of these things but I have to go 'round the houses' somewhat to put it all together. I think that it is so important to look at how this treatment can be made more readily available to others.

Justin

[ignominious]

Update on my Baclofen progress

Greg. There is a way out and you will find it. When I reached my switch the first time it was difficult for me to believe - I think that is the experience of many. We had been fighting this batlee for decades and always lost.

It gets your mind used to thinking the worst and expecting it - its a m@#herF%$#@er in so many ways. Don't worry I'm not going to tell you to start being positive and the benefits of positive thinking. However Bac has helped me and others immensely.

Jaddyday We're on the same page.

I didn't have a drink last night and consequently feel much more 'with it' today. We'll see when the witching hour comes around!

[ignominious]

Update on my Baclofen progress

Ahggg Reg. That's another of the horror stories of Bac - bummer.

So sorry to hear that your back struggling, but at least you experienced some time sober! Don't know how Bacced out you were but at least it was a break from alcohol. I spent the longest time in that limbo state but it was gradually getting more bearable. I don't know any other way to deal with my feelings and emotions than drink. That's what I do. It's in this period that I think we would be most susceptible to some good and understanding psychiatric help. Give me a blueprint of how normal people live and enjoy life - please!!!!!!! It's not easy but its better than than drinking. Now I'm rambling!

I didn't try Nal or Topa or anything else. I lucked into Bac as my first foray into drugs for alcoholism. If I was considering 'drugs to stop drugs' again without any experience I would investigate them all more thoroughly.

Do you think you got anything positive from your time AF? I feel your pain.

[ignominious]

Update on my Baclofen progress

This is my 3rd night without a drink. So I think I'm there!

SEs are ever present and as I believe that it can take weeks to build up in your plasma I have also decided to reduce my dose from 240 to 220 mg today. Maybe able to get some stuff done!