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My Experience with Baclofen

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    My Experience with Baclofen

    Hey Folks.

    I read this website a great deal, and I felt I needed to add my experience with baclofen (most recent medication tried) and other meds as well. Maybe this will help someone else. I ordered bac and titrated up to 65 mg per day. This proved to be quite challenging for me as I experienced significant side effects with this medication. Somnolence, pruritis, dazed affect, "interesting" dreams, etc. Read other threads for this information. I have posted a couple of times about my surprise that bac ( being a GABA-B agonist) is disturbingly similar to GHB, a recreational and highly addictive drug I took back in the day.

    Like others here I've read, there are two types of alcoholics I guess: those who drink out of some "craving" or biologic need and those, like me, who seem to drink because its a powerful, powerful habit. My habit starts to kick in around 4 PM and I can try to get around it, but it grabs me powerfully around that time. I feel like the alcohol is my reward for getting through a day. I share my life with a partner who is quite infirm and needs much care. He's in bed much of the day so I have way too much time to myself.
    It's very clear that alcoholism (god, I hate saying that word!) is an emotional and spiritual disease as as much as it is a physical disease. It is a disease (for me) of loneliness as much as a physical disorder.

    For those who are looking for purely anti-craving meds I can give you several suggestions of meds that work. Here goes. Baclofen at a certain dose (apparently varies with each individual) reduces the physical craving (but not the habit of desiring) alcohol. Topomax definitely decreases the desire for large amounts of alcohol. With topomax there was the standard dazed, out of it feeling combined with the fear/suspicion that I was losing some hair, so I titrated down from it. But, as always, I tritrate down because no pharmaceutical reduces my habit of drinking, even though there are clearly several that reduce the physical desire. This distinction is critical, at least to me.

    Ok. Memantine (look it up) combined with kudzu extract works also to reduce physical cravings. I have (with some difficulty; bac is a demanding mistress) titrated down my bac daily dosage to 35 mg taken 3X per day (10, 10, 10). I will try (out of academic interest more than hope) start at that level to combine it with the GABA-A agonist topomax at 25 md per day (taken as 12.5 mg X 2).

    If you just biologically crave alcohol, it seems to me there are a number of meds that work. However, if you, like me, drink out of a powerful habit, none of these meds are of any value. It's not, unfortunately, a med problem. We need to find a way to change our habits, our way of living. 3-7 PM is my enemy.

    Peace,

    Krill

    #2
    My Experience with Baclofen

    Hey there Krill,

    It sounds as if your alcohol dependence is very similar to mine these days. My initial problem with alcohol began when I started using it at the end of each day in order to get a few hours of respite from loneliness and depression, 20+ years ago. I had tried antidepressants and seen a psychiatrist back then, but nothing worked. After seeing what alcohol could do for me back then, I settled into a routine of drinking from 8 PM or so every night until bedtime. I felt able to get through each day, just by knowing that alcohol was there for me every night.

    Fast-forward 20 years and it has become a living hell, an obsessive-compulsive ritual that I am compelled to perform each night, even though it now no longer does anything at all to help my depression. It is like having a very selective form of OCD now. I don't want booze at all during the day, in fact I would refuse a drink even if someone shouted me one any time before about 8.30 PM, but after that time I just "have" to drink. If this is not a severe habit, I don't know what is. I feel this need to drink at that time no matter what my emotional state or life events now.

    I can't tell you what to do about your own situation, but will tell you what I think can help me. First of all, I do need a medication regime as part of my escape, because my mind just cannot find enough stability to resist the return to drinking after I have had time off it. Even though it is a strong habit, I also believe it has turned into a biological and brain chemistry problem in my case, simply due to all this time I have spend drinking huge amounts at night.

    I also believe I will probably need supervised Antabuse treatment every day, at least for a year, to stop my devious alcoholic mind from wanting "just one more night of drinking". Antabuse is not for everyone, but it did help me keep off the booze for 1.5 years at one point, and helped me keep off it for periods of 2-7 weeks after I relapsed. Antabuse, for me, helped stop the daily argument in my mind about whether I should drink or not each night. Unfortunately, using it alone can just cause me to decide to quit taking it and wait until it has worn off so I can drink again...hence the need to have a close relative or friend to supervise my taking of it.

    Finally, for me, alternative activities at the time I have usually spend drinking are going to be essential. This is the only way I can think of to finally break the habitual side of this addiction. I may have to drive to activities after dark in places that are 1 hour or more from my home, but I cannot see any other way, as the only night social activity in my home town is the pubs and clubs. I have been thinking of nightly AA meetings in nearby places as one alternative, but I don't exactly see eye-to-eye with AA in many ways.

    I even considered hypnotherapy, with the idea of planting in my mind the thought that I don't really need alcohol or drugs at night to feel calm and contented, but most don't find this therapy helpful for alcoholism.

    Anyway, I have probably not helped you very much, but I just wanted to say that I understand your situation. I am currently chasing up a new treatment idea here in Australia, and if it doesn't work out, then I may end up simply using drugs as substitutes for alcohol. I definitely don't recommend that idea to anyone, but it kind of shows how desperate I have now become (especially as I have not been a drug user, apart from alcohol, for most of my life).

    By the way, I don't currently believe that baclofen works exactly the same as GHB in the brain. GHB attaches to recently discovered receptors, not surprisingly called GHB receptors, which baclofen has not (to my knowledge) been found to attach to. Yes GHB does also agonize GABA-B receptors, but baclofen does not seem to show the same addictive properties of GHB. People here who have used it as an alcoholism treatment report no desire to use it compulsively, and in fact most (myself included) have a lot of trouble getting up to high doses. Baclofen, to my knowledge, has zero value as a street drug..another sure fire indication that it is different to GHB. Even the "experimenters" on forums such as drugs-forum and bluelight seem to give up on baclofen after a few tries, which is very different to the way people take GHB.

    Sorry, I tend to ramble on in my posts, but only out of a desire to chat to fellow sufferers. I wish you all the very best.

    Comment


      #3
      My Experience with Baclofen

      Krill, that's exactly the sort of drinker I thought I was, and baclofen worked perfectly. There's not much difference between a craving, and what seems to be a really good idea. It doesn't have to gnaw at your insides for it to be a craving.

      Comment


        #4
        My Experience with Baclofen

        krill,
        interesting post. have you tried the sinclair method. i believe it erases the neuronal pathways of a particular habit such as alcoholism. would be an interesting experiment for you to try.

        Comment


          #5
          My Experience with Baclofen

          gratitude;1351152 wrote: krill,
          interesting post. have you tried the sinclair method. i believe it erases the neuronal pathways of a particular habit such as alcoholism. would be an interesting experiment for you to try.
          I was thinking the same however most report there does need to be some motivation required to kick any residual 'habitual' drinking, TSM helps with the cravings leaving you with the ability to break the habit if you wish.
          I used the Sinclair Method to beat my alcoholic drinking.

          Drank within safe limits for almost 2 years

          AF date 22/07/13

          Comment


            #6
            My Experience with Baclofen

            Hullooooo everybody!

            I'm sorry, Krill, that you are still suffering so much. I wonder if you read the other threads you started related to this? Anyway, I just thought I'd pop in with some information I found related to this discussion. There's a Harvard professor/psychologist who has written a couple of books about addiction and has a blog. While I fundamentally disagree on some level with just about everything he says, there are others that agree and (seem to) have found help with his approach and from his thoughts. Plus there is a bit of validity (even from my perspective) for some of his thoughts.

            Lance M. Dodes, M.D. - Welcome

            (And Krill, just because you believe this thing to not be related to an underlying chemical cause does not mean it is not fundamentally chemical. There is no question at all that brain chemistry is altered by addiction, and perhaps before addiction happens. But that is much beside the point. The point is, treating the brain chemistry AND the psychological dysphoria are not mutually exclusive. Take really good care of yourself, Krill. :l)

            Comment


              #7
              My Experience with Baclofen

              Hi Krill,

              I'm sorry that you haven't found your solution yet but you make a very important point. Baclofen has given me the ability to stop drinking against my will. I can go out for an evening with my friends and not have it degenerate into a week long alcoholic binge. I no longer crave alcohol daily as I used to.

              However, it would be very easy for me to override the medication. I don't have an awful lot on at the moment and am quite bored a lot of the time. In the past, whenever I have been bored, my solution has been to go to the pub. I could quite easily waste my days sat in the pub, getting hammered and trying to pull the barman.

              Balofen has given me the means to live my life the way I want to but only I can change my behaviour; I forget that at my peril.

              Good luck, keep us posted and I hope you find your solution soon.

              Justin.

              Comment


                #8
                My Experience with Baclofen

                jaddyday;1351966 wrote:

                Balofen has given me the means to live my life the way I want to but only I can change my behaviour; I forget that at my peril.
                YES!
                That deserves to be repeated. Repeatedly.

                Comment


                  #9
                  My Experience with Baclofen

                  Thanks everyone for your interesting posts. Antabuse is the only drug that seems to help me As Greg said it takes away the decision to drink or NOT! I find that helps. I am about to start again on them today. stopped about 2 months ago and I am back drinking again,so obviously, I need to stay on the drug for much longer.

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