A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

[alexk201]

I promised myself that I if survived my Klonopin withdrawal, that someday I would tell my story, so that other people can avoid going through the hell that I had gone through. Well, this day has finally come. Exactly four years ago in July of 2008 I took my last dose of Klonopin after taking it daily for two years..

For the past seven years I have been battling a cruel and unforgiving illness named chronic fatigue syndrome. This illness can be a double edge sword. It takes you to the bottom pit of despair and yet shows you how beautiful and precious life really is. However, nothing could have had me prepared for what I went through with benzodiazepine withdrawal.

I had already been sick for a year before I went to see a local neurologist. One of my most unrelenting symptoms was constant ear pressure on both sides along with tinnitus and hyperacusis. The neurologist was quick to give me a prescription for a benzodiazepine drug called Klonopin. I was always wary of taking medication and asked the doctor about any type of side effects. He assured me that I had nothing to be concerned about, that out of all his patients that were prescribed Klonopin no one ever had any problems, especially if it was at such a low dose like mine!! That night I scoured the internet trying to find as much information as I could about Klonopin and CFS. I ran across an article published by a renowned CFS physician by the name of Dr. Paul Cheney about the benefits of Klonopin in calming down an upregulated nervous system in people with CFS. I was convinced! Next day I went to my local CVS and filled the prescription.

I was finally going to get rid of at least the ear pressure, or so I thought. I started taking 1mg of Klonopin daily at bedtime. Right away, my insomnia improved, now I was able to get a good ten hours of sleep compared to the five I had before the Klonopin. I noticed my anxiety level had decreased as well. Ever since I became ill, I was in a constant 24/7 panic attack. I suppose that as a result of this illness, my HPA axis went completely haywire and cortisol was constantly surging unregulated. However, the ear symptoms stayed the same, no change at all.

After about a year of taking 1mg of Klonopin at bed time religiously, I felt my condition getting worse. Anxiety levels increased back to pre klonopin levels, insomnia came back three fold and all of my other symptoms were getting exacerbated. This was terrifying! I had no clue what was causing this. A thought crossed my mind that it might be the Klonopin but I quickly dismissed it. How could it be the Klonopin? The doc said that this drug does not have side effects, isn?t habit forming or addictive. I kept feeling worse for another three months until I called the neurologist to voice my concern. He did not waste any time to reassure me. He said?.?Alex, what you are experiencing is your CFS illness. This has nothing to do with the Klonopin, if you would like, just cut your dosage in half, wait for 2 weeks and completely stop taking it.?

Well, by that point I was convinced that it was the Klonopin that was responsible for the decline in health that I was experiencing, so I took the neurologist?s advice and cut the dosage in half. Huge Mistake! Two days later I was in very bad shape. I could barely get out of bed, vomiting, diarrhea, inner tremors, hallucinations, fear, dread, OCD thinking and about a dozen other very disturbing symptoms. I started searching the internet on anything I can find about benzo withdrawal.

My search led me to a website called BenzoIsland. It looks like this site does not exist anymore but I am sure that there are many like it. Well, this site to me was a miracle. I pretty sure that if I did not find this site and learn the PROPER was to taper of benzo?s I would be long gone by now.

At this point of I am going to sum everything up. Initially I was thinking about writing a long version of my story but that?s not what you need to hear! You need to hear the meat and potatoes baby

So, I learned about the ?Ashton Manual?. Right away I switched to Valium as it has a longer half life and withdrawal is more tolerable on it. I went through sheer hell for about 7 month. That is how long it took me to taper down. There were many times that I did not think that I was going to make it. Thank God I did not own a gun because I probably would of used it on myself. However, as many people have told me during my darkest days of despair, I would like to tell you the same, ?Keep going, don?t stop!! There is a light at the end of this dark tunnel!?

Now, below are some final points I would like to leave you with:

1. Keep going, you will come out of this on the other side smiling, happy and health!
2. Follow a SLOOOWW taper plan based on the Ashton Manual. Do not go cold turkey under any circumstance.
3. DO NOT increase your dosage after going down. This will needlessly extend the time of withdrawal and might make you feel worse!
4. Find a competent doctor who is open to learning about the Ashton method and helping you through out the process.
5. Make sure to receive support from administrators and other member of this site! This is very important. You are not alone; people are going through exactly what you are at this very moment. Stand together and support each other.
6. There is such a thing as protracted withdrawal but I HIGHLY doubt that it goes beyond two years. You might have an underlying problem that has nothing to do with benzo withdrawal. Do not blame everthing on bezo withdrawal, research all other possibilities. As in my situation, a severe case of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.


So remember, Do not give up on yourself! You will taper of the benzos and in time your brain chemisty will go back to normal, you will heal. You will feel NORMAL once again and go on with your life

[Ne/Neva Eva]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

There's a BIG difference here!

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. I have had watched two friends withdraw from the long term use of klonopin and it's a horrible process. The depression was the most frightening for those of us who watched them go through it. The insomnia and incredible anxiety were the most difficult things they had to deal with, I think. Your story is a very important one for several reasons. Many of us (dealing with alcohol addiction) have been prescribed long-acting benzos to deal with our underlying anxiety. Many people, when they start taking baclofen, abruptly stop taking them. This is a baaaaaad idea. As you know!

However, there are some things I'd like to draw attention to, for those thinking about using xanax, or even valium, in order to take baclofen to the point of indifference. Klonopin does not equal xanax. Or valium.

Short term use of benzos, (Edited and deleted) do not have this effect. There is ample (lots and lots of) evidence to indicate that it does not lead to withdrawal, abuse or addiction. Xanax is one of the most prescribed medications in the U.S. If it were the addictive, dangerous medication that we tend to think it is, we'd have reports all over the news about it. (Most recently there was an blurb on Yahoo news about the rising use of adderall, and the resulting abuse of it, in middle-aged women. Did anyone see that? If xanax, or any of the short acting benzos were in this category, we'd know about it. They aren't.)

(Edited and deleted)

So for those thinking about using a short acting benzo, for a short period of time (less than a month) please do the research. For those who have been taking a benzo for a long period of time, PLEASE DO THE RESEARCH. (Edited and deleted)

I'm so glad you made it out, Alex. And thanks again for sharing your story.

[baclofan]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

Ne/Neva Eva;1354084 wrote:
However, there are some things I'd like to draw attention to, for those thinking about using xanax, or even valium, in order to take baclofen to the point of indifference. Klonopin does not equal xanax. Or valium....agreed 'comparing apples to oranges'.

Short term use of benzos, particularly xanax and valium for some reason you still compare 'apples to oranges'...one is very short term acting with fairly quick onset, the other one very long half life with remarkable anticonvulsant properties.
Xanax is one of the most prescribed medications in the U.S. If it were the addictive, dangerous medication that we tend to think it is, we'd have reports all over the news about it. (Most recently there was an blurb on Yahoo news about the rising use of adderall, and the resulting abuse of it, in middle-aged women. Did anyone see that? If xanax, or any of the short acting benzos were in this category, we'd know about it. They aren't.)

heads up! xanax use could form a habit sometimes within two weeks or so...tons of xanax addiction info on net, people hooked telling horror stories about sheer hell trying to quit!!!...and just when you thoght AL addiction was bad...

After all there must be a reason that in some countries all benzos are classified as narcotics, good luck getting xanax script in Canada...there's no doctor in the right state of mind that would issue it unless it's for extreme panic attacks and if anything else failed.

Ask benzo addicts what's their most favoured drug of choice...betcha 8-9 out of 10 woud say: Xanax!...well I'd take subligual lorazepan/ Ativan over Xanax anytime but never as a combo with anything else...I've learned my lesson the hard way!



So for those thinking about using a short acting benzo, for a short period of time (less than a month) please do the research. For those who have been taking a benzo for a long period of time, PLEASE DO THE RESEARCH. There is only one way to come off of that stuff. A very long slow taper down, coupled with the use of a short term benzo, is the only way to avoid the chemical chaos of withdrawal.

...guess you meant "A very long slow taper down, coupled with the use of a long term acting benzo, is the only way to avoid chemical chaos "


Ne, please don't get me wrong but the consensus on this side is: HDB + AL = OK..?

HDB + AL + Benzos = a potential diseaster waiting to happen...in my books/ doing my math

[COSGringo]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

They are all addictive and have serious w/d effects. Simple.
Everything listed above does except baclofen in the addictive sense.

Valium has a longer half life than Klonopin. In the past it was considered more dangerous that Klonopin for that fact. Matter of fact it has some of the longest half lives of any mainstream benzos. It was considered dangerous because it was easier to O/D on it due to that half life.

I think drugs in general are bad and I am rethinking all of this mess lately.

Here's a link to Ashton if you need it - benzo.org.uk : Benzodiazepines: How They Work & How to Withdraw, Prof C H Ashton DM, FRCP, 2002

[StuckinLA]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

You OK, COS?

[Ne/Neva Eva]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

hmmm...

Thanks, Baclofan!
I am actually going to edit my original post and remove anything that might sound like a suggestion on how to taper off of benzos. I know very little about benzo addiction. I DO know enough to be very cautious about how, when and why I would take them or recommend them.
That said, I think it's often the case that we jump to incorrect assumptions based on the fact that some people have problems managing them. And I'll give you a correlation: Some of us get addicted to alcohol. Right? And there is a HUGE continuum, a GREAT BIG wide spectrum of what that means for individuals. Some people drink a glass of wine, or two, every night. They would be really uncomfortable without the glass of wine. That constitutes dependence, for sure. (Not the kind of dependence that would bring someone here, and get them taking a drug, off label, in 3 times the recommended dose. :H But still dependence.) The vast majority of alcohol-dependent drinkers fall into this category. The other end of the spectrum is addiction, defined as escalating use without positive reward and in spite of negative consequences. (Needless to say that's where I fall into the bell curve! At the tiny end with about 6 other people! [kidding, of course. There are at least 60 of us over here in my little world. ])*

I'll be back later with a bunch of convincing (I think) science-type stuff and articles from medical people about how addictive (or not) this stuff actually is.

baclofan;1354250 wrote:

Ne, please don't get me wrong but the consensus on this side is: HDB + AL = OK..?

HDB + AL + Benzos = a potential diseaster waiting to happen...in my books/ doing my math
hmmmm. That I take an exception to, for many MANY reasons.
Suffice it to say, (because I'm running out of time) that I would never suggest benzo use to someone who was not looking for a way out of alcohol addiction. (It's ironic, I know.) But there is sound evidence, and not just anecdotal, that it can be (and should be!) a medicinal tool for that purpose. Plus, baclofen...changes the rules in some really important ways.

(Generally, I would support all of this with the stuff that I've read that helped me devise my own opinion on the matter. It is very dangerous, and personally I find it extremely annoying, when people do what I've done. Which is to say put a bunch of stuff out here on the www. that may harm more people than help them. So I'll be sure to be back soon with more.)

COSGringo;1354358 wrote: They are all addictive and have serious w/d effects. Simple.
Everything listed above does except baclofen in the addictive sense.

hmmm. I'm not so sure about that one, COS. But more importantly there is this:

COSGringo;1354358 wrote: I think drugs in general are bad and I am rethinking all of this mess lately.

How are you and what's going on? I certainly understand the sentiment! Some days it grates every nerve I've got to just keep taking the pills. Then I remember what life used to be like.
:l

[COSGringo]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

Fine here. Just taking pills for everything sets us all up for certain disaster.

Messing with our brain chemistry. I think we know more about theoretical physics than our own brains.

Seriously though. All those benzos are addictive and have serious rebound effects.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

I found some really fascinating stuff out about benzos (and more importantly about panic and anxiety) doing some digging around for this thread. It's one of the reasons I love MWO. It inspires me to think and read and research and figure it all out--as much as I can.

I'll say this to sum up what I found:
Benzos, and xanax in particular, are miracle drugs in so many ways it's amazing. There are applications for the use of them in opthalmology, dentistry, gastroenterology and of course neurology. In fact, I can't really think of a branch of medicine that isn't using, in one way or another, benzos to help patients be well. And in many cases it's a matter of a couple of days use of less than 1mg (for alprazolam)!

It was a relief, in a way, to find out why they are some of the most prescribed medications in the U.S. And obviously, and remarkably, it's not just for the 'feel good' or anti-anxiety aspect.

I also found out some really negative things about which I was unaware. There is an increased chance of toxicity with alprazolam over the other benzos. There is also an increased chance of suicide using alprazolam. In both cases it was associated with long term use, or really over-doing it, but that's scary enough to give one pause. Right? Because we can recover from just about anything, but death is pretty damn final for this life...And no reason to suffer longer, or worse, should one overdo it, especially by accident. (Though it's hard to imagine it being an accident if someone takes a benzo for a long time. Or takes a bottle's worth in a short time. You know?)
The other thing I found is that it looks like the negative effects might be more profound for women. Particularly for older women. Particularly if they (we) have a genetic link to alcoholism. (And that one was pretty significant.)

well now I've gone and written a looong post about it, when I could have been working on getting the actual information organized with the proper documentation. So I'm off with more to come soon!


I'm going to compile it all and start a thread and put it all on the main board for people to peruse at their pleasure. (I do realize not everyone takes the pleasure in finding out/figuring out all of this stuff that I do, but anyway!)

[Greg]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

I agree that benzodiazepines definitely have a variety of legitimate medical uses, and they are routinely given to patients at the psychiatric clinic in my local area, as I found out after one of my friends unfortunately had to go there a couple of times. They definitely work to calm a person down rapidly, without some of the serious side effects that can happen when antipsychotics are used for this purpose. Obviously benzos are also the drug class of choice for alcohol detox, and can also be used short-term (a week or less) to help people get off marijuana, although that is an unofficial use (and I'm not sure how effective it is). Insomnia is another obvious application. Most of these legitimate medical uses are short-term only, or maybe longer-term but not daily.

The problems with benzos are said to start happening with daily use over periods beyond a few weeks, especially if there is no clear medical reason for prolonged use. Protracted withdrawal symptoms, especially hideous insomnia, are one thing that I found especially difficult to deal with after taking 1 mg of Xanax daily for many years, as prescribed by my local GP for anxiety (in fact he prescribed me 2-3 mg per day, but I elected to only take 1). Personally I have never once found myself craving benzos, wanting to increase the dose, or wanting to take them to get high, but others do experience these problems. My dependence has only ever been physical, although that has been very difficult to handle at times, and I have only minimized my use so far, by switching over to Valium and gradually reducing to 2.5-5 mg per day (that is well below 1 mg of Xanax per day, which is equivalent to 10-20 mg of Valium). I did get down to zero a few times, but rapidly reinstated at least a small dose, due to the insomnia I mentioned above (and also worsened anxiety and severe tinnitus).

Tolerance is the other obvious issue. Opinions vary greatly on this, and I suspect it is because individual levels and rates of tolerance vary greatly. Personally, I did not experience a huge or rapid tolerance with daily Xanax use, but I know that many people react differently. My 1 mg per day, taken at night for sleep during a prolonged period of abstinence from alcohol (and taken before that in the afternoons when still drinking, to ward off alcohol withdrawal) eventually stopped working as a sleep drug. However, tolerance to the anxiolytic effects of benzos may be far more limited (according to medical opinions I have read), and I didn't find any tolerance happening to the ability of Xanax to keep alcohol withdrawals at bay when I was using it for years for that purpose.

Recreational use of benzodiazepines on a regular/daily basis is the most certain way to end up having severe problems with them, in my opinion. I have read stories of ridiculous amounts being consumed, and I once personally watched a woman who was a poly-drug abuser swallow six 2 mg Xanax "bars" (long white rectangular tablets) in one go...yes that's 12 mg in one dose. Her boyfriend was also a heavy drug user, and after seeing her do that, I drove back to their house to check on her within the hour, in case her boyfriend was also out of it on something and unable to monitor her condition. Upon arriving back there, I was amazed to see her answer the door, although in a groggy state. She said thanks for being concerned, but not to worry, as she had a huge tolerance and only needed to lie down on her bed!

While we have to always keep in mind the dangers of benzos, I also think we have to keep in mind the drugs that the benzos replaced for anxiety and insomnia treatment, and realize that those were even more hazardous. Before Librium, Valium, etc., the main medications used were the barbiturates and a number of other drugs that worked similarly to the barbiturates...things like chloral hydrate, meprobamate, methaqualone (the infamous "Quaaludes"), and other similar ones. These shared all the dangers of the benzos, but with the added danger of lethal overdose. They were very much like alcohol in a pill, even more so than benzos due to being more general central nervous system depressants.

[Greg]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

P.S. Sorry for such a long post, I get too carried away once I start writing about a subject of interest to me!!

[COSGringo]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

All good points.

The barbs were definitely a bad thing. Well at least that's what I hear. A lot of overdoses on those.

Guess each gen has to be some sort of guinea pig.

[baclofan]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

"What surprises me about this is that all of the benzos, Xanax is the most often criticized by the psychiatric community for its addictive potential and severe withdrawal effects."...

...and yet being the most prescribed in its category in States...go figure......guess can only happen in States...

http://www.cchrint.org/2010/05/3/psy...icked-to-hell/

[Bruunhilde]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

Greg, thanks for your story. My brother has CFS and my sister has some autoimmune disease too perhaps in addition to her fibro. They were both on klon. I never heard this story from them but they may have not attributed the issues they had to the klon. They certainly both have had the depression/panic/pain issues.

Now that you're off klonopin, what are you taking for the CFS? Elavil, neurontin, ? Curious always to learn and perhaps help my siblings.

I am glad you're done with that horrible withdrawal!

[Cashregister]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

Doctors in Australia will seldom if ever condone long term use of ANY benzo for a period longer than two weeks. They are incredibly addictive and long term use can lead to irreversible changes in brain chemistry. I have been prescribed Xanax short term and that was still a little difficult to stop abruptly. I was (incorrectly with hindsight) prescribed clonazepam ( klonopin) for a neurological vocal cord disorder called spasmodic dysphonia by my ENT specialist. Nine years on I could kick him as I am having to taper off sooo slowly and each taper means a couple of days of hell. If I stop taking it suddenly (ie I forget ) I get sweats, shakes and massive agitation. Once I had a fit. If you can bypass these meds do so - there are some antidepressants that have a calming effect at low dosages such as Luvox ( fluvoaxamine) which is often used to treat OCD by targeting the anxiety component of the disorder. And yes I know it can be tough to come off an antidepressant ( have done many times - I am bipolar type 1 and they can make me manic so only take when v v depressed and then come off them again) but that's NOTHING compared with clonazepam(klonopin). I would advise to not take anything with an active ingredient ending in "Pam" for longer than a month maximum.

[Cashregister]

A Warning to those who are thinking about trying Benzodiazepines

And the new atypical antipsychotics - would choose them over the benzos any day - if you are in a highly agitated state, or manic, they are fast and effective - I take the lowest dose possible of quetiapine (seroquel) for anxiety and insomnia (I dont have psychotic episodes thank goodness) and its brilliant. Mind you I am talking from the perspective of a person with a chronic affective illness who has to take medication. If I didn't have to take anything I wouldn't - believe me I've tried several times (oh I'm cured now I'll stop my meds!! Next week back at the hospital....ho hum!). If you can get by without drugs go for it!!