Dr Ameisen got addicted again

[TX Git Slinger]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

Seems to me that if DR A had relapsed, as Dr L says he did...DR A would have issued a warning about titrating down, which he hasn't, to my knowledge.

Clearly there is some misinformation goin round!

[Otter]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

I have been in regular contact with him recently and he seems fine to me.

I think everyone should read the experiences of top doctors prescribing to 1500 patients in France which is reflected in the Prescribing Guide thread. It is not a case of baclofen not working. It is a case of it working and sobering people up to a reality of 1. what they have done to their lives and have to do to fix it and 2. other conditions which were masked by alcohol consunption. Balcofen is not a cure all. It "cures" or treats the craving response centered in the limbic system of the brain which is an automatic response. That is why craving is so overpowering. But, alcohol messes with all the brain systems, corrodes nerves, destroys brain cells etc etc. and then the cognitive part of the brain sobers up and depression sets in over the mess of it all. I mean, really, Dr. Ameisen relapsing? Who cares? What would it matter even if he did? What he has been doing with this treatment from the beginning was experimenting. So, he pushed the envelope out by reducing. That is good medical practice as no one should take more medication than they need. The Prescribing Guide says to do that and go down to a point where the cravings return and then go back up again until they go away. How else to you find out what the lowest effective level is?

There is so much stigma and ignorance towards alcoholism that it is completely understandable that some idiot in France decided to ssay he had relapsed. When the French film maker who came here tried to get someone to back her film she was told by the production company that they wanted her to portray baclofen users as a bunch of cranks and fools so she gave up on the project. There are a lot of seriously unpleasant people out there who laugh at the mentally ill, addicts etc. My experience with baclofen is a lot of people just don't give a flying f about it so I would take anything you hear about Ameisen with a huge big lump of salt.

[COSGringo]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

Well put Otter.

[jim65]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

Hello again. I have my bac, and if was funny watching the pharmacist reading Dr. L's hand written faxed instructions. She was like "what?" shaking her head and asking if I had taken this before. I smiled and said no. It,s a good thing I hadn't read the instructions yet because it said it is to be used for alcoholism and Has a 99.4% success ratio. I might of well of raised my hand to these people whom I have been a customer for 10 years and said - " my name is Jim and I'm an alcoholic".- Oh well. She shook her head again and said it will be ready in about 15 minutes. Dr.L comes thru! I received 178 pills at 20 mg each for 5.00 bucks. Insurance is covering it for now , I'm sure as they review that fact that it is being prescribed over the FDA recommendations , I'll be on my own. This should be a little over a month and a half's worth of medicine. "I think". I started yesterday. Jim

[StuckinLA]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

Weird, Jim. My script said nothing of the sort, and Dr L prescribes it for anxiety I think. Mine doesn't even have a diagnosis, and the pharmacy assumed it was for muscle spasms.

Probably definitely don't want your insurance labeling you as having a problem, so maybe revisit the pharmacy? There's no reason for this to be listed under AL. Anyway, best of luck!

[jim65]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

Hey Stuck, Perhaps it was because my pharmacy said they don't call the Dr, The Dr. needs to call in the prescription. How did you do it? The label only informs to to take as directed per printed sheet. I don't know if the printed sheet will make to the insurance co. Hope not.

[StuckinLA]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

My pharmacy (Walgreens) would not fill an As Directed script. They put a 60 mg/day on it, not sure where they go that, and then would only fill 3 months of the script. In other words, they F-ed me. But nowhere on anything was anything related to AL.

Was going to call Dr L, but he called to check on me first. He gave me the # of the pharmacist he uses in Chicago, and said the guy would fill whatever Dr L wrote and mail it to me. Which sounds really weird, but I'm calling on Monday. I'll let you know how it goes but will probably forget so remind me.

[COSGringo]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

Yes, it's fun bringing in written instructions to a drug store. It is amazing how some of us managed to get it filled.

What a long, strange trip it's been.

[desperados]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

TexasAg;1362578 wrote: I just got off the phone with Dr L for our weekly call. I was kinda freaked out because of the title of this discussion and the first few posts. I probably should have read through all the posts before I spoke to the doc, I would have calmed down. It's probably best to heed the Bac Veterans advice and not waste more energy on who said what but I asked Dr L direct questions about Dr A and dosage. Hopefully it'll allay some fears. I'll try not to misquote him but I just got off the phone and will try to be as accurate as possible.

Q: There are rumors that Dr A fell off the wagon and is addicted again.
A: Dr A is fine. He tested going down in dosage years ago like any good doctor researcher would but found himself in trouble and quickly titrated back up.

Dr L didn't go into detail of what trouble meant and I didn't ask. I trust the good doctor would not talk about my details and I'm sure he respects Dr A and won't give out his details. I forgot to ask if he titrated back up to his switch dose.

Q: There is a lot of confusion about whether to stay at the switch dose or titrate down.
A: You should stay at your switch dose.

I haven't hit my switch dose, I'm only at 80mg, so I can't comment on whether that is feasible or not. But I agree with the Vets that this is not an exact science and you should listen to your body. I do know that I look forward to hitting the switch (God willing) and having to make that decision.

Up until a few days ago I didn?t have any side effects except when I went up in dosage I would feel tired. But by the next morning I?m fine. I have noticed that my brain is calmer, I don?t feel as stressed anymore. I don?t get the feeling of wanting to disappear. I know it is working because I?m going through a very stressful situation at home and I?m dealing with it in a more rational manner. I?m not getting so many extreme irrational thoughts. I?m not obsessing on things as much.

Dr L is aware of SE's. The past couple of days I haven't been able to sleep more than 3-4 hours a night. This could be from Bac, but it I'm sure it also has to do with the complications at home. He said I need to get through this and JKTTDP. I'm also gonna get a prescription of .25mg of Alprazolam (sp?) to help me push through this insomnia.

I trust the veteran posters. They have helped me tremendously. Baclofen is helping and I would suggest taking the plunge as scary as it seems.

Cheers!

Day 28 on Bac - 80mg
AF - 8/8/12
BBF (binge beast free) ? 8/8/12

WTF ???

[desperados]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

redhead77;1362053 wrote: I'm not in the know anymore, if I ever was. I've been around here for a little while, and I started bac in February 2011. I've had phone appts with Dr L and seen him in his office a number of times. We would spend the times in his office usually discussing bac.

The "stories" I was referring to were specific things you mentioned, Jim, after your conversation with him: Dr A's visit to Chicago, a radio show, and relapse. Since I haven't had an appt with him in at least 6 months (he writes me generous refills and I've gone down, so I haven't had a need to see him), things could have changed. There could have been a different trip to Chicago, a new radio show, ect. The last I heard, and this was over 6 months ago, Dr A was on a dose of like 70 mg or something. That's what he wrote here. He also stated he doesn't believe in staying at one's switch dose. As Ne has mentioned, relapse is the nature of our disease. If that were the case with Dr A, at least he had the option to go back up.

Here's what I do know for sure. Dr L has provided me with a script for bac for the last 18 months. I'm sure he'll continue to do so. I've talked to him about my SEs and I've had plenty. He hasn't denied them. Most don't seem to surprise him. He listens and responds in a kind and gentle manner. Early on, when I started taking bac, I decided to quit my job because I was having so many SEs. I decided to titrate up more quickly than he recommended, and shoot for the switch. I had to take out catastrophic medical insurance. This insurance didn't cover routine doctor visits, it only would pay for hospitalization. I told him I didn't have insurance and little extra money. He told me it was ok, and he wouldn't bill me during that time. I had a number of appts both on the phone (I actually did talk to him regularly for a period of time, it wasn't weekly, but it was often) as well as office visits. He didn't charge me a penny for months. When I got my new insurance, he started billing that insurance then. And he's careful to bill without the diagnosis of alcoholism to make sure the insurance companies don't get a hold of the info. I'm not the only person he hasn't charged, or has charged sliding scale rates to. People have reported it many times. He's clearly not out to make a bunch of money on us. Why he's determined to tell people there aren't SEs and report a success rate of 99.4%, I'll never know. I don't agree with it. But I don't think he's malevolent, either. I think he truly believes in baclofen.

Around the time Dr A came online and stated he did not believe in staying at one's switch dose (I think this was late last fall) I emailed him and tried to get to the bottom of the miscommunication. I'd just had an appt with Dr L, where he told me we should stay there, per Dr A's recommendation. Dr A never directly responded to any questions I had regarding the nature of their relationship and why there's miscommunication. He told me he didn't know why Dr L recommends that. It was obvious they've had, or do have contact (and he stated he helps him with his most difficult patients), but he never elaborated on the rest. I decided at that point, that I wasn't going to waste the energy trying to figure it out anymore. I had what I needed and the rest didn't matter...except with regard to staying at the switch dose.

I tried to stay at my switch dose (or the dose for me that really impacted my drinking) for a couple of months. I did it twice under the advice of Dr L. I couldn't function well, and eventually had to come down. I think that's what happens to most people, but it might also depend on the dose someone switches at. Some people do switch at lower doses. Mine was always in the 200s. If you decide to try baclofen, you can see what happens. If you tolerate the dose that impacts your drinking the most, then you could stay at it for a while. If you don't, you can always titrate down.

....

[Jazi's Mum]

Dr Ameisen got addicted again

I agree there is a lot of good information in this thread, HOWEVER, what is the point of bringing back the original upset when it's been dealt with so thoroughly?

whatever, please read the dozens and dozens of posts here describing personal experiences with baclofen. Nothing else really matters because we do not have our medical communities working with us, for the most part. So why keep bringing up what Dr. A has done, or what Dr. L says. From my experience with doctors each has his/her own ideas and they are not gods.

If you are still unsure about baclofen, don't take it. JMum