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**AmyC** · August 31, 2012, 11:46 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

Hi Louis. I can only tell you from my experience which is similar to yours. My drinking was never during the day and only after 5pm until about 11pm or so depending on what day of the week it was. Weekends it always went to about 1am or so. I always thought that because I didn’t drink during daytime hours that I had it under control. It wasn’t until I consciously tried to control the nighttime drinking that I knew that I was dealing with a problem. I have also gone in the past for a few months at a time AF but was never able to shake that AL monkey off my back. As far as Ritalin, I have no experience with it so I cant give any advise on it but I am taking Baclofen and I can say that I don’t have any cravings. The SE's are a struggle for me but it’s different for everyone. As far as your age, it really matters how old you are. Alcohol dependency can affect anyone at any age. It does not discriminate. I like you can fill my day with work and other activities but as soon as I head home it hits me every time!!! Without fail. I’m not a Dr. so I cant give medical advise but only go off of my own experience.I would say give Baclofen a try, especially since you have it. One thing I can say for sure is that its definitely quells the cravings without a doubt. I don’t know if I have given you anything to work with but I hope I’ve helped a little.

**jaddyday** · September 2, 2012, 02:34 PM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

Hi Louis,

I relate a lot to your current predicament. I was 25/26 (I'm 29 now) when I first got into 'recovery' and when I finally managed to stay sober for 18 months I found that there were two major problems. Firstly, even after 18 months my cravings got increasingly worse until I was thinking about alcohol pretty much constantly. The other big problem was that I had absolutely no social life whatsoever. I used to try to go out and not drink but I just spent the whole evening thoroughly miserable and resenting everyone around me. It suffices to say that it is not an experience that I would ever want to repeat! In the end I just realised that I was simply trading one type of misery for another and decided that if I was going to spend my life as miserable as sin I'd rather be drunk!

Motivation will avail you nothing with regard to the cravings and it was not my experience that they diminish over time. There is a chemical imbalance in the brain of an addict which needs to be addressed. I had the same advice as you about filling my time with other interests which is fine but it won't stop the cravings.

I didn't drink during the day. I didn't drink every day. Most alcoholics I've met don't. I have been taking Baclofen for about three months and while I haven't yet reached 'indifference' I'm now at a point where I can go out at the weekend and then put a stop to my drinking and function 'normally' through the week not bothered by cravings.

With regard to taking Baclofen for 50 years, the drug has been around for 60+ years and has been shown to be very safe. There is loads of information on here and other sites and I suggest you do as much research as possible on the subject. Whatever you decide, good luck and keep us informed!

Justin

**Louis** · September 3, 2012, 08:01 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

jaddyday;1372735 wrote: Hi Louis,

I relate a lot to your current predicament. I was 25/26 (I'm 29 now) when I first got into 'recovery' and when I finally managed to stay sober for 18 months I found that there were two major problems. Firstly, even after 18 months my cravings got increasingly worse until I was thinking about alcohol pretty much constantly. The other big problem was that I had absolutely no social life whatsoever. I used to try to go out and not drink but I just spent the whole evening thoroughly miserable and resenting everyone around me. It suffices to say that it is not an experience that I would ever want to repeat! In the end I just realised that I was simply trading one type of misery for another and decided that if I was going to spend my life as miserable as sin I'd rather be drunk!

Motivation will avail you nothing with regard to the cravings and it was not my experience that they diminish over time. There is a chemical imbalance in the brain of an addict which needs to be addressed. I had the same advice as you about filling my time with other interests which is fine but it won't stop the cravings.

I didn't drink during the day. I didn't drink every day. Most alcoholics I've met don't. I have been taking Baclofen for about three months and while I haven't yet reached 'indifference' I'm now at a point where I can go out at the weekend and then put a stop to my drinking and function 'normally' through the week not bothered by cravings.

With regard to taking Baclofen for 50 years, the drug has been around for 60+ years and has been shown to be very safe. There is loads of information on here and other sites and I suggest you do as much research as possible on the subject. Whatever you decide, good luck and keep us informed!

Justin

ty for reply.

I just don't know if it's "worth" to take high dosis baclofen just for the craving in the evening. On which dosis are u now?

**Louis** · September 3, 2012, 08:03 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

AmyC;1371794 wrote: Hi Louis. I can only tell you from my experience which is similar to yours. My drinking was never during the day and only after 5pm until about 11pm or so depending on what day of the week it was. Weekends it always went to about 1am or so. I always thought that because I didn?t drink during daytime hours that I had it under control. It wasn?t until I consciously tried to control the nighttime drinking that I knew that I was dealing with a problem. I have also gone in the past for a few months at a time AF but was never able to shake that AL monkey off my back. As far as Ritalin, I have no experience with it so I cant give any advise on it but I am taking Baclofen and I can say that I don?t have any cravings. The SE's are a struggle for me but it?s different for everyone. As far as your age, it really matters how old you are. Alcohol dependency can affect anyone at any age. It does not discriminate. I like you can fill my day with work and other activities but as soon as I head home it hits me every time!!! Without fail. I?m not a Dr. so I cant give medical advise but only go off of my own experience.I would say give Baclofen a try, especially since you have it. One thing I can say for sure is that its definitely quells the cravings without a doubt. I don?t know if I have given you anything to work with but I hope I?ve helped a little.

ty.

What SE do you feel? And you helped me, everyone who just tells a story and tries to help is a help.

Louis

**Louis** · September 3, 2012, 08:14 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

I also read that a lot of people suffer from anxiety en that baclofen helps with it etc. But i never have anxiety, i didn't start drinking "because ...", no i don't have a "because". I was just a student like the other students but i think i just started drinken to soon en to much en ma alcohol problem IMO is just a result of drinking a lot every day the last 5 years. But anxiety i don't know how that should feel.

**StuckinLA** · September 3, 2012, 10:21 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

Hi Louis.

I haven't had the time to check out your story in the link, so please forgive me if I'm making incorrect assumptions, but your situation already sounds familiar. I began nightly drinking in college, and continued it after. The fact that in my mid-20s I followed a career path that had me working multiple days straight--sleeping at work on the clock at night--saved me from a quicker downward spiral.

Once I left that career, though, and had my nights free, I very quickly fell off a cliff. Nightly drinking became light afternoon drinking, to tide me over until the heavy evening session. Then even this turned into "hair of the dog" morning drinking that would lead to weekend-long benders, and finally week-long benders.

As to the anxiety, I'd had an anxiety attack in college, but I always thought I was drinking because I wanted to be a writer, and because it was fun. But the anxiety got a whole lot worse recently. Even if you don't have underlying anxiety, alcohol withdraw will give you anxiety, and possibly even panic attacks eventually. There are people here who've cured underlying anxiety that they didn't realize they had until after it was cured.

Though I understand your trepidation when it comes to a very long term medicine. You might consider checking out naltrexone, and specifically the Sinclair Method. It works for some people. Be careful about getting a prescription for nal, though, as I think it's always prescribed for alcoholism, and you absolutely, under no circumstances want that on your medical record. So if you can find a doc, or a psychologist, willing to prescribe it for something else maybe go for it. Nice thing about nal is that you only take it when you're drinking...

Cheers.

**jaddyday** · September 3, 2012, 10:28 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

Hi Louis,

I'm currently on 375mg/day but I'm a pretty big chap! Most people hit their switch at a ridiculously high level then find a maintenence level much lower. When I was your age alcohol had already cost me my business (a bar, somewhat ironically!) and a house. It still took me a year or so to accept that alcohol was an issue!

One of the problems with this treatment is that it is so new, there is no set protocal and we are all really just experimenting on ourselves. The effects of taking Baclofen at high levels for decades is simply not known although from the extensive research I've done I'm not unduly worried. I just decided that in all probability 15/20 bottles of wine a week was likely to do far more harm than Baclofen was ever going to! Also, having already done the 'abstinence thing' I had no motivation to go back there for the reasons already discussed. I've done the lot; AA/NA/CA, counselling, hypnosis, acupuncture months in The Priory etc. The only thing that has actually eliminated the cravings (which are the root of all addictions) is Baclofen.

In terms of side effects, I experience nighttime insomnia and daytime drowsiness from the start and hay-fever-like symptoms and breathlessness from about 300mg/day upwards. Yes, Baclofen is a brilliant anxiolytic.

At the end of the day, only you can make this decision. Just a random thought - have you looked at The Sinclair Method using Naltrexone. It's a much less punishing regime but seems to take longer to be effective.

I'll leave you with this. Probably the only thing that I heard in AA that I agree with was that alcoholism, left untreated, gets worse never better.

Best of luck
Justin

**baclofan** · September 3, 2012, 11:03 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

StuckinLA;1373010 wrote: You might consider checking out naltrexone, and specifically the Sinclair Method. It works for some people. Be careful about getting a prescription for nal, though, as I think it's always prescribed for alcoholism, and you absolutely, under no circumstances want that on your medical record. So if you can find a doc, or a psychologist, willing to prescribe it for something else maybe go for it.

Actually nal is prescribed for opiate addicton issues mainly--AL is kinda secondary...but the LDN (low dose naltrexone)...4.5mg/night max gains alot of attention...just google: LDN

Apparently the best med ever invented...!

Btw, the regular dose or even half of it I find quite toxic...but LDN is so much different 'ball game'

**StuckinLA** · September 3, 2012, 11:17 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

Oh, weird. I hadn't heard anything about all that.

What I meant by the alcoholism diagnosis was that it wouldn't be prescribed for something "innocuous" like anxiety, probably. Not in the same way that bac and HDB can be prescribed off-label for anxiety... or even muscle spasms like it's originally intended. It doesn't necessarily raise any eyebrows. Whereas if you're getting nal it might look like you're an addict of some kind or whatever.

Not sure how it could be "toxic," though, as it's just an opioid antagonist. I think a few people report some upset stomach/nausea issues, but I don't think many discontinue due to SEs.

Anyway, Louis, if you're interested in searching for the nal route, I'd seriously recommend googling TSM or Sinclair Method before that low dose stuff. Or if you've got the time, check out The Cure for Alcoholism by Dr. Roy Eskapa.

**baclofan** · September 3, 2012, 11:39 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

StuckinLA;1373033 wrote: Oh, weird. I hadn't heard anything about all that.

Not sure how it could be "toxic," though, as it's just an opioid antagonist. I think a few people report some upset stomach/nausea issues, but I don't think many discontinue due to SEs.

The larger dose disseminates the human body opiates--called endorphins...the low dose does the opposite.

**AL Fiend** · September 3, 2012, 11:51 AM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

baclofan;1373045 wrote: The larger dose disseminates the human body opiates--called endorphins...the low dose does the opposite.

Are you saying low dose enhances the endorphins?

**baclofan** · September 3, 2012, 12:20 PM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

AL Fiend;1373049 wrote: Are you saying low dose enhances the endorphins?

Exactly! and therefore autoimmune system.

**Ne/Neva Eva** · September 3, 2012, 05:38 PM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Not so sure about the science behind that endorphin/naltrexone connection.

There is also a TSM forum, Louis, should you want to look into that. And some people around here who are or were using it. They mostly end up on the other forum, though, I think.

And, well, there is no line (and really, there isn't) that says, "Cross this and you're a drunk. Stay on this side and you'll be juuuuust fine."
Ever take one of those alcoholism quizzes? I have. Silly little things.

I spent years and years only craving/drinking at night. Except when it was appropriate to drink during the day. (Ball games, parties, brunch etc.)
But I have always been, and would have always remained, an alcoholic of the first order.

Just to throw another wrench at the monkey: I also had NO IDEA that I suffered from irrational anxiety. None. Not at all. Until it was gone.

**baclofan** · September 3, 2012, 05:49 PM

to baclofen or not? 23y old

hmmmmmm

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