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    Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

    I am a 45 y.o male and have been drinking for about 30 years. Tried Topomax for 2 months and was very excited until I realized I would lose my job if I kept taking it. Too much confusion and difficulty thinking clearly. I switched to Baclofen. I have a physician who I talked into a script despite his reluctance. I have been taking Baclofen for almost 3 months now. I am currently at 170mg per day. My dose is split evenly at 6am, 10am, 2pm and 6pm. I may change that to 6 times a day soon. I have titrated up roughly 10 mg every 7 days (2.5 per day for 4 days starting on Thursdays) but recently that proved way too fast for me and I have had to slow it down to 5 mg every 7 days. My alcohol consumption seemed to go down slightly but since I hit 140 I have been drinking more like normal again. No switch in sight yet.

    I have almost quit Baclofen 3 times but stuck it out. The worst was yesterday which may be why I am finally posting rather than lurking. I was driving 70 MPH in a 70 MPH zone on the interstate and fell asleep at the wheel. I ran off the road and almost lost control of the car. I am convinced the rumble strips woke me up and saved my life just in time. Had I not been on the interstate with rumble strips I may have been dead. I have to frequently make long trips for my job and I have no way around that short of quitting. I pulled off and got coffee and even smokeless tobacco hoping the nicotine/caffeine combo would help. Strangely it did not. I did make it back to the office with a few more stops to walk around and jump up and down. I have to drive a 5 hour trip next week and I am scared to death now. I will not be going up in dose at all until after that trip. I may take some of my Daughters Concerta. I hate stimulants like caffeine, nicotine etc because they worsen my Baclofen induced anxiety. I have never in my life fallen asleep at the wheel. I thought that kind of thing could never happen to me.

    The other problems I have had are severe panic attacks (started at about 70 mg) and I have never had panic attacks in my life until I started taking Baclofen. I am required speak in front of groups for my job, been doing this for 15 years without incident. Now I have severe panic every time I am speaking. Other times I panic for no reason. Once my blood pressure shot up to around 190/120 with a pulse of about 120, I could not slow it down. 10 minutes in a warm bath with wine finally helped a little. It is very scary and at work I have no way out of it. Terrifying. I stopped all caffeine but that did not help. Benzodiazapines knock me out. Alcohol is the only thing that reduces my anxiety. Last week I got pulled over for speeding and my BP shot up so high I could not see. My eyes were flashing white with every heart beat. I got an extreme pain around where my kidney is located that pulsed hard with every heart beat. I thought I was going to pass out. Crazy.

    The other almost deal breaker for me was post nasal drip. I have heard some people refer to “choking” at night and that is how it feels. The mucus closes up my throat and I wake up unable to breath about every 5 minutes or so in a panic. This prevents sleep all night when it happens. I have tried every decongestant and antihistamine on the market along with constant neti pots to no avail. This past week it lessened somewhat by itself? maybe because I slowed the titration.

    Other negative side effects which I have never before experienced include: Severe anxiety all the time except during those times it knocks me out and makes me sleepy. I have no fingernails left because I chew them up like crazy from the anxiety. Insomnia, many get this so it’s no biggie to me, I just get up and drink till I pass out. I am very lazy despite the anxiety, I used to work out all the time but now I cannot get off the couch. Related to the previous one is weight gain. Recently heart palpitations began on and off. Extreme startle response, when the phone rings I jump out of my chair. Social anxiety, I have not even posted on this forum because I am too scared to meet people, not sure why I am doing it now? Perhaps because I almost died and that changed my perspective a little bit. Anhedonia is another effect, my family also says I don’t show emotion any more. They say I seem depressed yet I don’t really feel depressed.

    Positive side effect: I have not measured specifically but I think I am drinking somewhat less than before Baclofen. The most positive side effect of all NO HANGOVERS! Even if I drink 12 beers and a whole bottle of Chardonnay and only sleep 3 hours, I wake up feeling great! I cant explain it. This is also a negative effect because I have no real incentive to stop drinking now.

    I do want to quit drinking. The main reason I want to quit is so I can stop taking Baclofen. There are times I have felt in the moment that this is far worse than drinking. There was a brief moment that I kinda wished I had run off the road completely. Strangely however, I don’t really care, none of this negative stuff really bothers me all that much, neither does the positive. Right now I feel indifferent to the idea of achieving indifference. I just feel very blah.

    I feel like I have been too lazy to quit. I feel like it is once again time for ME to quit rather than waiting for the magical indifference switch. I have quit many times on my own. I always did it by working out every single day. That might last for a year or two or a week or two and then I would relapse. I have quit for 30 days more times than I care to admit. I guess this time I was too lazy to do the work. Quitting has always sucked. I hate it worse than anything….or at least I used to. Now I think I hate Baclofen worse than quitting. If that is true and I am being honest with myself then why don’t I just quit? I wish I could answer that. I think I want to give it a try. I just lack motivation for some reason. Now that this has started interfering with my job and my life the only way I see it working is to go up EXTREMLY slow like 2.5 mg a week to see if that takes away the falling asleep at the wheel thing. The other way is that I can hope that 170 is my maintenance dose. Then I can quit white knuckle and skip the trip up in dose to the switch and back down to 170. The crazy thing is the whole reason I took Baclofen was to take the easy way out and avoid white knuckles. We will see what happens. I will keep you posted. Thanks for listening.

    #2
    Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

    Oh Yin..
    how awful and scary for you
    I tried Topa and Bac and could not tolerate the side effects. I quit on my own...wait...let me rephrase that....I have been sober almost 90 days with no help........I was desperate to quit destroying my family
    there are many , many meds fans here and I support all of them, bit that was not the path for me
    Have you considered Antabuse???
    Love and strength to you
    I love my family more than alcohol.:h
    Live in the Solution....not the problem

    Comment


      #3
      Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

      Thats awesome! great for you. I hope it works for you long term. I feel pretty sure Antabuse would not work because I am the type that will just stop taking it to plan ahead to drink later. When topomax did work welll I would stop taking it so I could drink on the up coming weekend. That is the one great thing about Baclofen I guess. You can not just stop taking it. I am so scared to stop taking it I have a note in my wallet on my drivers license that says if I am injured and in a coma please make sure I get my prescription 170 mg of Baclofen a day 42.5 mg Q.I.D. to avoid serious medical complications!

      Comment


        #4
        Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

        Naltrexone may be a better fit for you with The Sinclair Method.

        Comment


          #5
          Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

          yeah...that is a problem with AB...you HAVE to take it
          feel better friend
          and Nal is a good thought
          I love my family more than alcohol.:h
          Live in the Solution....not the problem

          Comment


            #6
            Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

            :welcome: To MWO Yinyang

            Very glad your here & that you reached out!.... Your not alone!!!! Very glad you didn't get in a worse accident!.... :l :h

            So many of us have been there, regardless of meds or not. After trying so many ways out for decades, I finally went the meds route back in 07-08. Don't think baclofen was the big med then. I chose Topa. It was on the Nat news, thelancet (leading medical journal) & here @ MWO.

            I went off of it & well you know. I also have PTSD & GAD, bouts of depression, my PDr is treating me off label much lower dose with Topa then & now & so it also does help some for alcohol cravings, but not entirely. There are other things I need to work on to!... Same PDr who's board certified in addiction as in 07-08. Just wasn't done drinking & am now. Maybe this is why I don't have the SE's like some do. I also went 4 yrs in between trying it again. I read quite about Baclofen & the SE's scared me. Now it appears from what I've read most re-habs are jumping on Naltroxeone, tho it's been out there a while.

            I do know that with the Topa it's easy to drink over it & once you stop taking it, then start up again, it can lose it's effectiveness. Along with in the US, there's generic verses brand name, having filters being issues for some. There are some people on Topa that achieve efficacy on low doses. Also playing around with dosage times, not titrating up to fast, & supplements can really help with tiredness & loss of words. They go away with patience.

            The owner of this website RJ took Topa as part of her plan, she originally intended to moderate, but ended up going AF. Under Best of boards ~ meds section there is a short 6 pgs where people discuss, but there is talk of Campral too. Then under AL long termers pg #13, How long do I take Topa? Started by Paddy, also New Hear Starting Topa, in this forum. If you find you want to give Topa another try later, lower dose. Also I like crazymeds.us

            Know it's hard as you drive & speak in your job. Can you take time off from work? You may need to decide what is most important here, your health, your family. I really wish & hope the best for you & your precious life & family!!!...... Maybe be honest with your Dr. about recent events, if you already haven't.

            I feel very bad for you! Hopefully later some other Bac people will be here to help.

            Take Good Kind Care, :h

            Wildflowers :l

            Comment


              #7
              Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

              YinandYang;1374042 wrote: I am a 45 y.o male and have been drinking for about 30 years. Tried Topomax for 2 months and was very excited until I realized I would lose my job if I kept taking it. Too much confusion and difficulty thinking clearly. I switched to Baclofen. I have a physician who I talked into a script despite his reluctance. I have been taking Baclofen for almost 3 months now. I am currently at 170mg per day. My dose is split evenly at 6am, 10am, 2pm and 6pm. I may change that to 6 times a day soon. I have titrated up roughly 10 mg every 7 days (2.5 per day for 4 days starting on Thursdays) but recently that proved way too fast for me and I have had to slow it down to 5 mg every 7 days. My alcohol consumption seemed to go down slightly but since I hit 140 I have been drinking more like normal again. No switch in sight yet.

              I have almost quit Baclofen 3 times but stuck it out. The worst was yesterday which may be why I am finally posting rather than lurking. I was driving 70 MPH in a 70 MPH zone on the interstate and fell asleep at the wheel. I ran off the road and almost lost control of the car. I am convinced the rumble strips woke me up and saved my life just in time. Had I not been on the interstate with rumble strips I may have been dead. I have to frequently make long trips for my job and I have no way around that short of quitting. I pulled off and got coffee and even smokeless tobacco hoping the nicotine/caffeine combo would help. Strangely it did not. I did make it back to the office with a few more stops to walk around and jump up and down. I have to drive a 5 hour trip next week and I am scared to death now. I will not be going up in dose at all until after that trip. I may take some of my Daughters Concerta. I hate stimulants like caffeine, nicotine etc because they worsen my Baclofen induced anxiety. I have never in my life fallen asleep at the wheel. I thought that kind of thing could never happen to me.



              The other problems I have had are severe panic attacks (started at about 70 mg) and I have never had panic attacks in my life until I started taking Baclofen. I am required speak in front of groups for my job, been doing this for 15 years without incident. Now I have severe panic every time I am speaking. Other times I panic for no reason. Once my blood pressure shot up to around 190/120 with a pulse of about 120, I could not slow it down. 10 minutes in a warm bath with wine finally helped a little. It is very scary and at work I have no way out of it. Terrifying. I stopped all caffeine but that did not help. Benzodiazapines knock me out. Alcohol is the only thing that reduces my anxiety. Last week I got pulled over for speeding and my BP shot up so high I could not see. My eyes were flashing white with every heart beat. I got an extreme pain around where my kidney is located that pulsed hard with every heart beat. I thought I was going to pass out. Crazy.

              The other almost deal breaker for me was post nasal drip. I have heard some people refer to “choking” at night and that is how it feels. The mucus closes up my throat and I wake up unable to breath about every 5 minutes or so in a panic. This prevents sleep all night when it happens. I have tried every decongestant and antihistamine on the market along with constant neti pots to no avail. This past week it lessened somewhat by itself? maybe because I slowed the titration.

              Other negative side effects which I have never before experienced include: Severe anxiety all the time except during those times it knocks me out and makes me sleepy. I have no fingernails left because I chew them up like crazy from the anxiety. Insomnia, many get this so it’s no biggie to me, I just get up and drink till I pass out. I am very lazy despite the anxiety, I used to work out all the time but now I cannot get off the couch. Related to the previous one is weight gain. Recently heart palpitations began on and off. Extreme startle response, when the phone rings I jump out of my chair. Compulsive masturbation, I think it is an anxiety reduction thing, It is interfering with my life and I simply can’t stop, plus it can take 1-3 hours because of the ED. Also ironically as just mentioned, erectile dysfunction, also related to the anxiety I think. The wife and I have not had sex in 3 months, yet I have to masturbate every day to go to sleep but I am too anxious to involve her. Social anxiety, I have not even posted on this forum because I am too scared to meet people, not sure why I am doing it now? Perhaps because I almost died and that changed my perspective a little bit. Anhedonia is another effect, my family also says I don’t show emotion any more. They say I seem depressed yet I don’t really feel depressed.

              Positive side effect: I have not measured specifically but I think I am drinking somewhat less than before Baclofen. The most positive side effect of all NO HANGOVERS! Even if I drink 12 beers and a whole bottle of Chardonnay and only sleep 3 hours, I wake up feeling great! I cant explain it. This is also a negative effect because I have no real incentive to stop drinking now.

              I do want to quit drinking. The main reason I want to quit is so I can stop taking Baclofen. There are times I have felt in the moment that this is far worse than drinking. There was a brief moment that I kinda wished I had run off the road completely. Strangely however, I don’t really care, none of this negative stuff really bothers me all that much, neither does the positive. Right now I feel indifferent to the idea of achieving indifference. I just feel very blah.

              I feel like I have been too lazy to quit. I feel like it is once again time for ME to quit rather than waiting for the magical indifference switch. I have quit many times on my own. I always did it by working out every single day. That might last for a year or two or a week or two and then I would relapse. I have quit for 30 days more times than I care to admit. I guess this time I was too lazy to do the work. Quitting has always sucked. I hate it worse than anything….or at least I used to. Now I think I hate Baclofen worse than quitting. If that is true and I am being honest with myself then why don’t I just quit? I wish I could answer that. I think I want to give it a try. I just lack motivation for some reason. Now that this has started interfering with my job and my life the only way I see it working is to go up EXTREMLY slow like 2.5 mg a week to see if that takes away the falling asleep at the wheel thing. The other way is that I can hope that 170 is my maintenance dose. Then I can quit white knuckle and skip the trip up in dose to the switch and back down to 170. The crazy thing is the whole reason I took Baclofen was to take the easy way out and avoid white knuckles. We will see what happens. I will keep you posted. Thanks for listening.


              Have you read the Prescribing Guide for Baclofen in Alcoholism which is on its own thread here?
              There are a couple of points which your post raises. The first is that your doctor should, as good medical practice, have advised you NOT to drive. The informed consent form in the Guide specifically mentions giving a strong warning not to drive because of the risk of falling asleep at the wheel.

              Secondly, the home use of a drug like baclofen at high dose is not a walk in the park. Baclofen is not a Smartie. It is a powerful brain drug and it is important not to lose sight of that. My experience is that it works but requires a lot of patience over a long time, lots of adjustments in dose and frequency of dose and possibly other medications like mirtazapine or propanelol. It can cause anxiety perhaps because of high individual doses or just taking too much of it. You should read the guide. It surprises me more now after a few years experience with baclofen why anyone would be surprised that it has the effects you mention. Why would it not have side effects and why would you think it would not interfere with your work etc etc? It changes brain chemistry and although it is not a hallucinogen, it is powerful medication and has to be respected and treated with utmost care.

              The advice on the French site is very good. They just keep saying, take it easy and listen to your body. It is an extremely individual thing and, while people here can give advice and support, you have to be very, very careful in taking it, spreading the dose out, taking more before bed and just experimenting until you feel right with it, reducing when your SEs are too much for you. Ameisen says it is effortless but he means it doesn't require a huge exercise of will. Don't interpret that as meaning the dosage is easy because it isn't.
              BACLOFENISTA

              baclofenuk.com

              http://www.theendofmyaddiction.org





              Olivier Ameisen

              In addiction, suppression of symptoms should suppress the disease altogether since addiction is, as he observed, a "symptom-driven disease". Of all "anticraving medications used in animals, only one - baclofen - has the unique property of suppressing the motivation to consume cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine and d-amphetamine"

              Comment


                #8
                Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

                Yin,

                That's a very scary experience and clearly you have every reason to be freaked out. I'm also hearing a lot of anxiety in general about your experience with a number of bac SEs.

                There is a general theme and a couple of specific things you mentioned that stand out in reading your post.

                In general, it seems like you are a smart, highly driven person, and probably successful in your career because of that. Sometimes what works in one area of life doesn't work in another area though. You seem to recognize all of these side effects and yet for the most part you are just blowing past them rather than managing them. You did say you backed off your dose some for the nasal problems and backed off the caffeine some for the anxiety, but when you have that many SEs impinging on you simultaneously, it is going to be crazy-making. And drinking to alleviate the anxiety SEs is understandable but not really a good plan...maybe?

                The main thing I want to tell you is "listen to your body!" If you are suffering this badly it might be prudent to adjust your plan and get some clarity on your go-forward steps. If blasting through the SEs isn't working for you then perhaps consider another approach.

                There are other folks here who will chime in hopefully with more wisdom than I can muster, but I would suggest that one thing you can for sure control is your dose and titration schedule. I encountered some of the same SEs as you did, and managed them by titrating down for a week or so when the SEs got to be too much, and then maintained that dose until the SEs became bearable. When things seemed stable again I would slowly titrate up by 10 mg per week. With that method I managed to hit my switch with a pretty low dose of bac.

                When your panic attacks started, that might have been a good time to slow down the titration or back off a bit. I have had a series of panic attacks once in my life many years ago, which were triggered by a normal dose of a common over-the-counter cough remedy. My experience was that after the initial panic attack, there were a series of "aftershock" panic attacks that took months to subside. They suck.

                The BP thing might really be something to discuss with your doc. Drinking will elevate your BP too. It's hard to tell if its the bac causing that.

                Here's one more area where it seems like you might make a big difference with your SEs and ultimate outcome:

                YinandYang;1374042 wrote: I feel like I have been too lazy to quit. I feel like it is once again time for ME to quit rather than waiting for the magical indifference switch. I have quit many times on my own. I always did it by working out every single day. That might last for a year or two or a week or two and then I would relapse. I have quit for 30 days more times than I care to admit. I guess this time I was too lazy to do the work. Quitting has always sucked. I hate it worse than anything?.or at least I used to.
                Man, if you can quit drinking for 30 days, then why not do it now? Then you would have some space to sort out what is causing the SEs: the bac, the al, or the combo. I was a binge drinker in the last phase of my usage. I was able to abstain for a period of time before doing the bac protocol and not dealing with the confounding effects of a bac/al combo was a major plus for my program.

                Anyway, I am not a doc; there are smarter folks here; and I would not presume to tell anyone else how to do this deal. You sounded like you could use a sounding board, though, and I wish you all the best in the process.

                Ag

                Comment


                  #9
                  Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

                  Hi Yin,

                  I've tried a number of these meds.
                  Baclofan puts me to sleep so the way it affects someones drinking habits I suspect is that they fall asleep and therefore don't drink! Just kidding but really, it's true. I can't stay awake on the drug and therefore don't drink. Nalextone is an odd one. There is much hope there but it didn't do much for me however whenever when I stopped taking it I drank like a fish. Glad thats over. No need to repeat. It didn't work and I'm fine now.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

                    "Baclofen - I almost died yesterday"? Oh for goodness sake!

                    Well, I won't bother going over the reasons why that was a ridiculous title for your thread, just as I won't bother suggesting how you might sensibly approach the use of serious, brain altering medication, just read Otter and Agassizii's posts.

                    Good grief!
                    "My fault, my failure, is not in the passions I have, but in my lack of control of them." Jack Kerouac

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Baclofen-I almost died yesterday

                      I tried high dose baclofen a year ago.I started bacs but during a craving i took way too much at once.I became a mess within an hour.Had vivid closed and open eyed visuals,mood changes,euphoria,anxiety and a spell of paranoia.Sweating,tachycardia and walked funny,eyes were dilated.Worse than any mushroom trip.I now take 10mg TID.Doing fine.AF for months.Yes bacs can be anxiety inducing even hallucinogenic in high dose esp. if u do not taper up slowly.

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