double dose naltrexone

[spuddleduck]

hi. ive not been here for a while but i could do with some advice/input please.for those who dont know my my drinking history is.... when i came here i was drinking daily and in a complete mess, had a 3 month af (wonderful) and slowly drifted back to drinking. i have since, for quite some time been drinking once a week (always in a bad addicted out of control way) sometimes twice a week.

anyway earlier this year, after reading lots and hearing some success stories got myself some naltrexone. i was hoping beyond hope that it was gonnna be the answer for me. for about 13 weeks i followed the rules religously. nal (with food) at least an hour before drinking, every time i drink. i think (and mr spud agrees) that my first few drinks were slower but all in all the end result was the same.... me pissed, black out, awful times

i havent had any nal for a couple of months now. my question is has anyone had any success with taking double dose nal....or an earlier dose, maybe 2 hours then another dose later.
i am always quite scared of taking non prescribed drugs, partly because im diabetic and partly cos im just like that.
any advice greatly app.

[spuddleduck]

double dose naltrexone

sorry, just bumping this up in the hope of a response. (no disrespect, i know there are not a lot of folks out there on nal)

[mama bear]

double dose naltrexone

I don't know anyting about nal...sorry Spuds

[redhead77]

double dose naltrexone

Hi Spuddleduck,

I'm sorry it doesn't appear Nal is working for you. I'm doing TSM at the moment too. I accidentally took a double dose once. It was the second time I took it. I mistakenly thought I was taking modafinil since they were both in foil packets. I attended a party that night and barely finished a glass of wine. I also was a little nauseous and felt wired. It wasn't a great feeling.

I'm not sure it's a great idea long term, unless you were going to skip days. My understanding is naltrexone is mostly metabolized through the liver. It seems like a double dose (which would be 100 mg) coupled with alcohol, might be extra hard on it. But I did read somewhere (and it's driving me crazy because I want to read it again) that some people might take 100 mg every 2 days, or 150 mg every three. Don't quote me because again, I can't remember where I read this. It was here somewhere in an article. I believe Cassander posted the article and it was written by Jonathan Chick. And maybe I'm just imagining it.

Anyway, this isn't medical advice. It's just my thoughts.

[redhead77]

double dose naltrexone

Maybe I'll try to go through Cassander's posts and see if I can find it.

[spuddleduck]

double dose naltrexone

thanks redhead. i could handle feeling wierd and nauseas if it meant i only had one glass of wine. im not drinking daily (seem to have got stuck on once a week) so it wouldn't be quite so bad but i do worry about my liver (for obvious reasons). i may go try my luck on the tsm forum and see if anyone has tried it. im starting to think i may try it once, with mr spuds on guard for any wierdness. thanks again and good luck with tsm, i presume its working for you

[moglor]

double dose naltrexone

Hi spud, from my experience with Naltrexone, and generally based on the way it works, doubling the dose probably isn't going to improve your experience. Any benefit would likely be placebo, or just the extra dose making you feel ill enough to not want to drink.

Using TSM with Naltrexone is a long-term approach. It can take months or years for "extinction therapy" to take hold. TSM also basically requires that you continue drinking, as the whole point of it is to de-establish the endorphin "reward" system in your brain that associates alcohol with good feelings. For me, this was a non-starter, as my goal was to stop drinking completely ASAP.

You might consider campral or topamax, or even antabuse. If moderation is your goal, you may want to reconsider that goal. It doesn't seem like people who binge drink in an alcoholic way have much success with moderation even with pharmaceutical support.

[redhead77]

double dose naltrexone

moglor;1375826 wrote: Hi spud, from my experience with Naltrexone, and generally based on the way it works, doubling the dose probably isn't going to improve your experience. Any benefit would likely be placebo, or just the extra dose making you feel ill enough to not want to drink.

Using TSM with Naltrexone is a long-term approach. It can take months or years for "extinction therapy" to take hold. TSM also basically requires that you continue drinking, as the whole point of it is to de-establish the endorphin "reward" system in your brain that associates alcohol with good feelings. For me, this was a non-starter, as my goal was to stop drinking completely ASAP.

You might consider campral or topamax, or even antabuse. If moderation is your goal, you may want to reconsider that goal. It doesn't seem like people who binge drink in an alcoholic way have much success with moderation even with pharmaceutical support.

Moglor, thanks for your input and I agree that naltexone is a long term approach. But there is something called the "honeymoon period" in some who do TSM. It's when you initially start the drug, you find your drinking to be dramatically decreased. Apparently experiencing a honeymoon can be a good sign TSM will work in the long run. I experienced a honeymoon period. It was definite and almost shocking. It lasted for about 2 months, I think. I'm a terrible record keeper, and I wish I'd done better with keeping track. I believe (and I haven't read Dr Eskapa's book, this is based on what I've read second hand) that most honeymoon periods last around a month. I hope another will correct me if I'm wrong. So from what I've read, an early and noticeable response isn't necessarily placebo. I only mention this because we don't talk about naltrexone or TSM much here. I want to get the info out, for anyone who has an interest in trying it, or is trying it.

Spuddleduck, it doesn't sound like you experienced any kind of honeymoon. Is that right? It would be better if you had from my reading. I would think (again, no medical advice here :l) that taking 100 mg once a week wouldn't be that damaging. It might be worth it to try a few times, and see what happens and how you feel. I wouldn't bother doing it more than a few times, if you don't notice a major difference. I would think you definitely couldn't drink until blackout if it were going to work for you. Especially on 100 mg. Good luck, and keep us informed!

EDIT: I'll correct myself. The honeymoon period usually lasts a mere 4-8 days. Why did I have such a long one? I'm not sure, but maybe it's because I was high doses of bac when I started it. I can't imagine that could have been placebo for a couple of months.

[spuddleduck]

double dose naltrexone

thanks for your input. i understand the theory of tsm, the extinction therapy, and that you continue drinking. ive managed to get my drinking down to once a week (from daily drinking) so i obviously dont want to go back to drinking more than that. I did take nal everytime i drank for about 2 months and didnt seem to get any result. i feel i wasnt going to have the extinction of the reward/endorphins as i wasnt feeling any different. I do understand that effort is required on my part as well and i assure you i tried. I was violently sick/ill a couple of times the next day which is quite unusual for me, so maybe that was an effect of nal. I have read that it simply doesn't work for some people or maybe im just drinking through any effect it has. I think i will try, just once, taking extra, maybe 75mg, and see how it goes. I will post back the outcome. fingers, toes and flippers crossed.

[LadyLush]

double dose naltrexone

Spudds,

You sound so much better wherever you are in this battle. The war is horrendous; if we can just get a battle under our wing we can move forward! I just came on for the first time in awhile and saw you; I will read up.
Glad to see you my friend!


Love ya,
LL

[spacebebe01]

double dose naltrexone

Hi spuds, I have never taken nal so Im only going by what I read on here. Waiting to exhale (I think) mentioned that there is a brand of nal that has a coating which makes it extended release and that brand may not be any good for TSM unless you chew it up, I think she got it from a pharmacy used in US, if you are taking this one then that might be why its not working.

Also from what Ive read the extinction works gradually as you take nal before drinking, so maybe the fact that your doing this only once a week, whereas some people might be taking nal and then having a drink everyday then it may take longer to work.

I have no scientific proof of this and no medical training its just a thought after reading about it.

Good luck x

[redhead77]

double dose naltrexone

spacebebe01;1378916 wrote: Also from what Ive read the extinction works gradually as you take nal before drinking, so maybe the fact that your doing this only once a week, whereas some people might be taking nal and then having a drink everyday then it may take longer to work.

That's an interesting thought, Bebe. You may be on to something there.

Spuds, I read that for TSM to work, it takes at least 50 mg before drinking. It sounds like some people might need a higher dose, but I don't know enough about it to know for sure. I read this on the TSM board. I also have read that liver issues occur in the 300 mg range. I wouldn't think 75 should be a problem at all, and even a dose a little higher, since it's only once a week.

That said, I'm glad you're aware of your response to it. It changed how drinking felt to me from the get go. My units have been up and down (very, very down at this point ) but how I've responded to alcohol has been different from the start.

[spuddleduck]

double dose naltrexone

thanks again for your advice/info.
I have had my first experiment with a higher dose and I am quite excited by the result. a semi-success i would say.
I took 50mg at around 4pm followed by another 50 at around 6pm. I had my first drink at 7.30pm (as i had planned). I did continue drinking but - i definately drank slower, i actually left half a drink (unheard of, i normally would gulp it down), i drank quite a bit less than usual, i didn't blank out (another first in a long time) and actually remember going to bed. The next day i felt the same as i usually would after drinking (pretty damn awful). im not sure how long nal stays in your system, i have read different info on this but ive been feeling a bit nauseaus and generally yukky today, it could be something quite different..... perhaps my cooking!!!
The best thing about this was how i felt when i was drinking. i didn't feel the great panic/emergency/urge/desperation etc that i normally feel. i would normally be filling my glass up when it is only half empty. I could actually wait between one drink and the next. this is huge for me. i felt the effects of alcohol without other feelings that go hand in hand for me.
i'm going to try this again next time i drink and see if the results are the same. ok, this is still a long way from where i want to be but i feel like i have had a glimpse of something better than i have been.

[YouKayBee]

double dose naltrexone

Spuds

Sorry for the late reply but I've been away without internet access.

I am so glad you have given TSM a go and pleased to see you posting again.

Firstly this liver thing with Nal, I've been told it's a bit of a myth. Nal doesn't damage the liver in the sort of doses we are taking(25-100mg). Having thought about this I've come to the conclusion that the liver tests are recommended BECAUSE you carry on drinking ie it's the boozing that's more than likely the biggest risk.

I've had two liver tests in the 18 months I've been doing TSM and both came back lowish to normal.

Right dosing.

I usually use 50mg but have been known to accidently take a second 50mg dose because I couldn't remember if I'd taken the first. Secondly I have taken doses earlier in the day, either because I didn't trust myself to wait the hour, then taken a second one because I've not drunk until much later than the 4 hour half-life(hours 1-4 have the most nal on your receptors). For instance last weekend I felt as if I wanted a drink, it was mid afternoon so I took 50mg. I didn't actually get chance to drink until after 8pm which was longer than 4 hours after, so I took a 25mg dose.

I think dosing has been discuss on the TSM forum, and some people do think some people need more nal because they are such endorphin junkies they need a bigger dose to knock that system out.

Hope this all makes some sort of sense!

Quick search found this but I don't know how reliable it is;

http://www.doctordeluca.com/FAQ/DopeyDocs.htm

Honeymoon.

Presence of honeymoon does indicate you'll be a 'responder' ie TSM will work for you, and it's a good sign. Can take up to 12 or 18 months for some people to achieve success, it took a long time to build the addiction, and will take a long time to break the addiction. Rats respond quicker in my opinion because they don't have our complex thought patterns, or conflicting behaviours. Research subjects are in a very controlled environment.

[spuddleduck]

double dose naltrexone

thanks ukb, and thanks for the link, i know you are now quite an expert with nal. im feeling less anxious about taking extra nal now and quite positive. ive been researching some more and one prescirbed way of taking nal is 3 times a week 100mg twice and 150mg once so i feel more comfortable with the idea of taking extra. if .... and i know its a big if i get some success with nal i will beg my doctor to prescibe it, i would much rather be under some kind of supervision or at least liver tests (ha ha if im so worried about my liver i should stop bloody drinking)
as i mentioned earlier the most interesting thing for me was how i felt when i was drinking, i was much more aware.... almost aware that i was feeling a bit drunk and not wanting more and more as quickly as possible. i hope it wasn't a one off. ill keep posting with my progress