Baclofen hell - please help

[ClearHead247]

Hi there,

I have been visiting this forum a lot since I started taking Baclofen in April 2012. I hope that someone can offer me some much-needed advice.

At the start of the year I came off an antidepressant (Venlafaxine/ Effexor) - that I had been taking for several years - because I got fed up with the side effects. My mood was good for about four months. Then I decided to give Baclofen a try as my drink problem had got worse over the last few years.

I read OA's book as well as The B4a Baclofen Handbook by Dr Philip Thomas before starting Baclofen and did a lot of research on this forum and other sites. I went to my GP to ask to be prescribed it - I live in London in the UK - but she refused, as I expected. So I ordered it online and titrated up very slowly, starting at 10mg to reach 150mg early last week.

The good effects: markedly reduced cravings, less desire to get drunk, a calm, relaxed feeling, less anxiety. I never got to the point where I couldn't touch alcohol but where I would have drunk a bottle of wine at least before starting Baclofen I was having one or two small G&Ts (total 3 units) and finding it hard to finish the second.

The bad effects whilst titrating up to 150mg: somnolence - especially in the early days, a bit 'out of it' and not completely engaged in conversation. But no serious bad effects.

I was pleased that Baclofen appeared to be working. However my depression had reemerged over the last few months - I was hoping that Baclofen would have an anti-depressive effect but it doesn't appear to with me. I have been avoiding people, isolating, having very dark thoughts - a lot of suicidal ideation, no hope for the future, etc.

Having suffered from depression all my life I know when it's time to get professional help as there have been a couple of times in the past month where I have been close to trying to commit suicide.

So I decided to go to the doctor to get a different anti-depressant to the one I was on before and got a prescription for an SSRI - Sertraline (Lustral/ Zoloft). But all hell broke earlier this week. Whilst getting up to the 150mg dose I was waking up early in the morning with a growing anxiety. But I was still getting a decent night's sleep. I should probably point out that I was taking 30mg at 8am, 40mg at 12, 40mg at 3pm and 40mg around 6.30pm.

But that all changed on Monday. I went to bed with a growing sense of anxiety and doom and could not sleep a wink. I had a horrendous feeling that I was about to die - like one long sustained panic attack, there was a loud ringing in my ears, my heart was pounding and I was sure I was about to have a heart attack. I made it into work the next day but was anxious and stressed all the time. I had one G&T to try to calm my nerves in the evening which helped a little but the same thing happened on Tuesday - no sleep, complete panic and anxiety.

On Wednesday I was in a bad way at work - I don't like my job at the best of times as my boss can be difficult - and actually considered handing in my notice as I couldn't cope at all. Which would have been a disaster as I have just bought a flat with a huge mortgage. Luckily I managed to get through the day without resigning.

I reduced the Baclofen by 10mg - to 140mg - and bought lots of natural supplements supposed to help you sleep: Kalms & Valerian Root. Again I had a G&T to try to relieve the terror I was feeling. Same thing happened on Wednesday night - I was close to calling an ambulance but I have read on this forum that it's likely that hospital might not be much help with doctors not knowing much about high-dose Baclofen for alcoholism. And I really don't want to scare my family by going into hospital - I haven't told anyone about my taking Baclofen for wanting to deal with my alcohol problem myself.
>I reduced the Bac by 10mg again yesterday - to 130mg - but it's made no diffference. I have now had four nights of no sleep, am exhausted and very scared. The anxiety is heightened at all times, my heart is pounding, I have ringing in my ears.

Being depressed already this situation is starting to get life-threatening. Suicide is becoming a very real option if I don't get better soon. I simply can't cope and I have no-one to confide in/ offer support. My doctor is useless and will just say I told you so - that you shouldn't have tried Baclofen in the first place.

THANK GOD I have the day off work today as I don't think I would have made it in. I intend to stay in bed and on this forum to try to work out a plan.

I need this anxiety and insomnia to go as soon as possible. I have been on Baclofen for around 5 months and am currently on 130mg. Is it ok to reduce by 10mg a day until I reach a dose where I don't have anxiety and can sleep normally?

I'd be really grateful to hear from other people who have had this problem and who can tell me at what dose the anxiety and insomnia disappeared?

Or do I need to get off Baclofen completely?

The other thing is the depression - I need a boost from the anti-depressant now more than ever as I can't face the day ahead but is it ok to take an SSRI on 130mg? I took one tablet of the Sertraline yesterday morning and I am sure the anxiety/ out of it feeling was worse last night so I don't want to compound the problem if the SSRI is going to make the insomnia and anxiety worse.

I would really like to start taking the anti-d now to give me hope that I can get through this hell and boost my mood. Can anyone advise as to whether I can start taking it now (100mg) or if I should wait until I'm off the Baclofen completely or at a low dose.

This whole episode has shocked me so much that I think I'm going to try other things to try and help my drinking too - like CBT and support groups.

Thank you for reading and I really hope someone can help me. I'm at the end of my tether and don't know where to turn.

Best wishes,

Anna:new:

[StuckinLA]

Baclofen hell - please help

:welcome:

Oh boy. You're sounding pretty clear-headed and rational at the moment, and that's a great thing. So I'm not an expert, and even if I were I couldn't say for sure what's going on.

So you haven't been drinking all that much for a while now? I was stone sober up to 150, and it wasn't until having a drink then that I freaked out. I guess kind of like you are now, though without the underlying depression. At 150 I felt kind of at indifference, actually, as I could look at a bottle and not really care one way or the other about it. So of course I tested it. Then I freaked out, dropped into the 130s, and drank heavily for several weeks.

I don't recommend going that route. Though a nip here or there isn't going to kill you, if it helps take the edge off the SEs.

I have no experience with ADs, on their own or with bac. Though I have not heard anything to suggest you shouldn't take them. Someone should please jump in if I'm mistaken, but I say go for it.

Get the depression treated, don't drop too quickly on the bac, and see how you feel. 10mg/day is way too quickly, I'd say. More like 10mg/every 3 or 4 days. But if dropping a little lets you feel a little better, and get a little sleep, then there is no reason to stay there for a little bit and gather your resources.

No reason to give up the fight just yet, in other words. Just my 2 cents. The sleep is important, though. Maybe some benadryl? Melatonin? Sleepytime tea?

You haven't done anything irreversible, so don't worry about that. Just hang in there. Lowering bac too much too quickly can also lead to more anxiety. So just camp out for the weekend, maybe read through some older threads, and be gentle with yourself.

And I'll be around in the morning (for me).

[ClearHead247]

Baclofen hell - please help

Thanks

It's so good to get a reply - thank you!

Yes I do feel clear-headed and am not completely panicking yet - but at 4am this morning it was a different matter. I dread going to bed at the moment.

No, the most I've drunk at one time recently has been two drinks.:thanks:

I'm going to start taking the Sertraline today to see if it improves the depression and gives me a boost, hopefully it will reduce the anxiety. I can't imagine feeling worse than I am at the moment so will give it a go.

I will also reduce the bac more slowly - I had a feeling that 10mg every day was too much, thanks.

I'm glad I haven't done anything irreversible, it feels like I have!

Thanks so much for your advice - it's much appreciated. Today doesn't look quite so scary.

Best wishes,

Anna

[ClearHead247]

Baclofen hell - please help

Update

Well I've taken the second tablet of Sertraline and felt a massive effect just 10 minutes later - it works quickly!

First I felt a huge anxiety rush and complete panic, paced the room and considered calling my mother for help (I always want to call my mother when I'm in difficulty!). I immediately worried that the SSRI was reacting with the Baclofen and I was about to have a fit.

But after a few seconds it subsided and I definitely feel calmer and clearer, the anxiety is still there but I feel more positive - like I can get through this hell and be able to keep my job. My great worry is that all this is going to result in my handing my notice in - which I was very, very close to last week.

I hope the Sertraline works, I really hope I can get some of the anxiety reduced and be able to sleep. I've never gone this long without sleep before.

As I'm all over the place I'm going to stay with my parents tomorrow for the weekend. I figure I need to be around people whilst I get used to the Sertraline being in the system with Baclofen - and also at the back of mind, it means that I won't do anything stupid if I feel terrible :thanks:and that there are people there to look after me if I do have a fit/ breakdown or something.

I'm not going to tell them about what's going on though - my parents worry about me enough without knowing that I am currently taking a drug obtained online and am combining it with an anti-depressant!

Please god can this work, I need some relief and hope.

Thanks for reading and for your advice - it really helps to know that I'm not alone.

[TexasAg]

Baclofen hell - please help

Hi Clear, welcome!
I'm relatively new here also but I can relate to much of what you've been going through. I'm currently at 160 about to go up to 180. I experienced my second full on anxiety attack this past Monday. In my situation I feel it was brought on by a lack of sleep and a situation that happened that sent me over the edge. I felt like I was going to die. I panicked and also thought it was due to the baclofen. I recognized that my lack of sleep and the situation most likely set off my attack. I was able to get some sleep and my calmness and resolution to see this through returned.

One of my saving Graces is that I'm being prescribed and talking regularly to Dr. L
it has been said that part of our anxiety is that we are doing this on our own. I was doing this baclofen on my own also but Dr L said I should tell someone close to me because I needed support and encouragement. So I told my sister with as much detail and background as possible. I have the email I sent her, you can PM me if you'd like a copy. Initially she was very incredulous but since she's seen the change in me and become very supportive. Since then I've sent that same email to a few family and friends and they also have become very supportive.

I think it's important you reach out both to close family and friends that will support you but also here. The veterans here are great. I recommend you look at NE's, stuck's, redthread, and a few others if you haven't done so already. Newbie's nest for bac thread has also carried me through.

My lack of sleep is brutal but I'm going to push through.

My prayers are with you.

Tex

Day 59 on Bac - 160 mg
Binge free - 28 days
AF - 6 days

[ClearHead247]

Baclofen hell - please help

Hi Tex!

Thanks for the welcome! It's difficult to know what to do as I experienced extreme anxiety on reaching 150mg but am now aware that titrating down too quickly also causes anxiety.

I'm going to stay on my current dose for three days and then reduce by 10mg every three days as suggested on this post - instead of my originally intended 10mg every day. And just pray that the Sertraline reduces the anxiety and insomnia.

I'm glad that you got some sleep - I need some!

Thanks, I'm going to ask my mother for some support and talk to a few friends. I've been dealing with this by myself for too long.

And thank you for your concern and advice.

Best wishes,

Anna

[StuckinLA]

Baclofen hell - please help

I did go through a lot of similar things, Clear, as did many others. Things look great in the morning, by afternoon you're not so sure, into the evening when you're wondering if this will ever work, maybe you've made a huge mistake, then reaching for a drink. Finally at night it's full blown misery and torture. Then the morning is fine.

That was me for a lot of weeks, actually. I came on MWO at all hours. I wrote about what I was going through--not for anybody else, just because typing, and knowing what I was saying would go out there and be read by someone--and writing about it really helped in those midnight hours, and the hours beyond.

Dig up some old threads, look for anything that says "progress," look for the longer (400+ posts) threads. Start reading. You can click on "replies" there in the bar next to "rating," and that will sort everything by the number of posts in the thread. The longer ones are probably daily diary kinds of things. And you'll see a lot of us went through this same thing.

And a lot of people couldn't make it, for whatever reason, and they turned back. There's nothing wrong with that--it doesn't mean they're weak or bad people, or deficient in any kind of way. Bac just wasn't fitting in with their lives at the time.

Then there are a bunch of people who powered through and did make it. I've been indifferent to alcohol for all of 2 weeks. There are people here (still active on the boards) celebrating 19 months.

I really like that you're going to stay with your mom. Because being near someone else sounds like a good idea. But remember: BACLOFEN WORKS. Period. If you take enough of it, for long enough, you will stop drinking and become indifferent to alcohol. And this might be the very most important thing you can do with your life. Or maybe not. I wouldn't want to lose a job, either. At the same time I wouldn't want to remain a slave to a bottle, either.

So it's up to you, and it's not a race. Drop down a little, get some sleep, gather your resources. Maybe don't give up so soon? You're having 1 or 2 drinks! You're already losing interest by the 2nd drink! You can see/feel that bac is working already, yeah? It's going to take as long as it takes. I hung around 130 for a long time, and then hung around 175 for a long time. Then 200 and 210 for a while. I've been at this for 5 months now.

It's totally up to you. But dropping 10mg or 20mg and settling in is pausing for breath on your journey. Dropping 10mg/every 3 days is giving up.

And yeah, I'm writing right now at 3:30 AM because I just woke up after being asleep for an hour, and trying to roll over and fall back asleep just doesn't work. It sucks. The question to you is would it be worth it.

[Otter]

Baclofen hell - please help

My advice is stay away from SSRIs and SNRIs. There are a lot of reports of them not being effective in alcoholism.
There are good reports for mirtazpine in alcoholism even as a stand alone treatment in reducing drinking. From personal experience it is very good in combination with baclofen and has a sedative effect. You may be able to reduce your dose of baclofen. Mirtazapine seems to be very effective from quite early on and the dose is about 15 mg mornings and 30 mg at night. I know someone who had huge problems with SSRI's and bac but stopped drinking completely once they switched to mirtazapine, no relapses, and total loss of cravings, able to reduce baclofen from 150 to 60 mg per day. I am not a doctor but this is a combo that others have used and is now being used by our doctor.

[rangiatea]

Baclofen hell - please help

Baclofen can make u amped up in high dose esp.if u titrate up too much to fast.I made that mistake almost a year ago.Took 100mg all at once and had vivid visuals similar to shrooms and 4 aco DMT(google it).It was,at times,scary.Never again!

[RedThread12]

Baclofen hell - please help

Hi Anna: Sorry you're having a rough go of it. The first question that pops up for me is: Is this baclofen hell, or is this Effexor withdrawal/anti-depressant switching hell? Looks as if you "stopped" the Effexor in a relatively short amount of time. And I say that, having both observed a close friend try to quit Effexor, and having read a LOT of stories from a lot of people who, in general, would rather have to face opiate withdrawal than withdrawal from Effexor. I have no real clue what is happening for you, but my antennae pop up immediately, seeing that you had been taking Effexor for years.

I've been quite fortunate on my bacventure . . . I had been taking sertraline/100mg/day for several years before I started taking baclofen. When I quit drinking myself to death, I started taking supplements, amino acids and neurtransmitters in hopes of repairing some of the damage I had done to my brain. I got a lot of that information from the Holistic Health section of this board, and found additional resources. At some point, when drinking wasn't interesting, I had lost about 15 lbs., and had become "addicted" to my supplement regime, I just quit taking the Zoloft. At that time, my bac dosage was pretty high, but I did notice some rather intense "zaps," that I eventually correlated with having stopped the anti-depressant. Again . . . I was fortunate, because not drinking AND giving my body and brain the supplements it needed just made the AD unnecessary, as far as I can figure.

Additionally, and in the interim, I think several baclofentists have used pharmaceutical meds to deal with anxiety. I'm coming to understand that baclofen is a much tougher row to hoe for people who are not so comfortable with "self-medicating," in a good way. I'm not sure an anti-depressant, which even your doctor will tell you might take several weeks to be effective, is the best remedy for immediate anxiety. The internet holds immense resources for figuring out what medications work for precisely what conditions. If I were you, I would look into Otter's suggestion. What do YOU need. And when? What are your priorities? I couldn't even begin to make a list for you, but give it some thought. Stuckin-la is giving some very good information, too. Good luck!

[Xadrian]

Baclofen hell - please help

Hi Anna,

What are you doing girl?
Searched you all over the internet for the past 2 months.
You really scared me to death! Your twitter account didn't exist anymore, now also the blog is out of the air.

I'm really glad you are alive, but sad to hear that things apparently went wrong.
I knew you had some problems, but I didn't realize it was that huge.
I thought you went well, lately.

Anyway, I'm glad I found you.
Please don't leave on me that way ever again, because I really do care.
Send me an e-mail if you want, so we can be in touch anyway.
I posted my e-mail address on the last day of your blog or otherwise you can send me a mail through this forum.

Xadrian

[StuckinLA]

Baclofen hell - please help

Is this really creeping anyone else out, or is it just me?

[StuckinLA]

Baclofen hell - please help

OK, yeah. It's really, really creeping me out. And I do recall seeing a blog link in her signature, but looking back now I see it's been edited out.

So, Xadrian, a lot of people come to MWO because it's a safe, anonymous place where we can get well. I don't know what kind of history you have with Clear, but if she hasn't been in touch with you for 2 months there's maybe a reason.

Now, before you go getting all savior-complex on me, it looks like, from her first post, that she's spent quite a bit of time trying very hard to get well. And now she's here, and we're trying our best to help her get well.

And we need to focus on her, and she doesn't need to be worrying about anything other than what's going on right now. The past is just that, the past. And what she's doing here has absolutely nothing to do with you. If she wants to get in touch with you, I bet she already knows how to do it.

Now for the important part: Clear, don't know what to do to make you comfortable at this point. I'd love for you to check in. How'd your night go? How're you feeling?

A new screen name, perhaps? Or private message somebody? Just check in, please...

:l

[Xadrian]

Baclofen hell - please help

Dear StuckinLA,

I think we all want to help Anna (ClearHead). But only if she wants to, of course.

And indeed, she being here has nothing to do with me.
From what she recently posted on this forum, I pretty well understand why she has stopped blogging for the past 2 months.

But thanks for your concern. If you really want to know, Anna and I started with Baclofen around the same date. She started 2 weeks earlier.

I replied once in a while and shared my experiences with Baclofen.
While she posted every day since she started with Baclofen, she suddenly ceased posting and also her twitter account was inactive.
So I have been very worried ever since.

So please don't be prejudiced or rude, I have no bad intentions, just like you don't.
We only want to help each other, right?

[ClearHead247]

Baclofen hell - please help

Thanks everyone

Sorry I haven't been on here since Friday but the day went wrong in quite a big way after my last post. I felt strange having taken the second tablet of Sertaline. At first it felt good but then, whoosh, there was a huge explosion of panic and anxiety all over my body. I was sweating, confused and my heart was racing.

Not knowing what was going on and extremely alarmed, I called my company private health insurance GP telephone number and explained to the doctor how I started taking Baclofen in April, had titrated up very slowly at around 10mg a week until I reached 150mg around August/ September time. I told him how I then got extreme anxiety attacks on Monday and wasn't able to sleep all week, resulting in my going to the GP to get the anti-depressant Sertraline prescribed.

The doctor at the end of the line sounded very concerned and observed that I seemed very panicky. He thought there had been a reaction between the high-dose Bac and the Sertraline and told me that I must get something to reduce the anxiety or I could have a mental breakdown. I headed straight for the nearest Accident & Emergency at Charing Cross hospital. By this point I was losing the plot - crying, screaming, threatening to jump in front of a bus. I was literally losing my mind with the horrendous panic attack that showed no sign of abating.

They took blood tests and gave me a heart ECG - all fine so it looks like I haven't damaged my body. But I REFUSED to leave the hospital without diazipam/ sleeping pills to tackle the anxiety/ insomnia. Luckily the diazipam worked on the Friday, my mother travelled three hours up to London to take me to my flat, get some clothes and then brought me down to my parents.

Friday night I had the first proper night's sleep since last weekend and yesterday I felt fine - relieved that I had been given some drugs and reasurred by the doctor telling me that the Sertraline had probably reacted with the Baclofen. I threw the Sertraline away on Friday night.

So when I went to bed last night I thought the worst was over. I had little panic yesterday and took 100mg Bac. But at 1pm the horror started again. I have never felt anxiety like it, I couldn't read a book, watch a film, I just had to lie there counting my breathes from 1-10 to keep myself from doing something stupid. I took one diazipam, it did not nothing, my heart felt like it was about to explode.

I took another diazipam two hours later - no relief - I was starting to get very very worried. I took a sleeping pill. No effect. Then I realised this is serious. I cannot function on this level of anxiety and insomnia by myself over the next three weeks whilst I reduce the Bac by 10mg every four days.

I came on this site and discovered an account of a girl who also found it impossible dealing with anxiety titrating down by 10mg every four days and managed to get off the bac in six days - taking small amounts when she felt seizures or anxiety coming on.

So I've decided to check myself into a private psychiatric hospital in the UK - The Priory - hopefully going in tomorrow, and will try the approach of the girl mentioned above. That way if I do have seizures/ psychosis through the Bac withdrawal I'll have doctors and psychiatrists around to help me. It's going to cost me at least ?5k but I will try anything at this point in time.

When I was in the Accident & Emergency department I had two doctors tell me to stop taking Baclofen immediately. I said that I had read lots of accounts on this site and others saying how you can have fits/ seizures/ hallucinations/ anxiety if you stop immediately but both were adamant that those things only happen when you take too MUCH baclofen, they told me they don't happen when you stop taking it. One doctor even checked with the department that uses Bac for spasticitiy and they said the same thing.

So I'm interested to see who is right! I'd prefer six days of hell getting off this drug to 3 weeks. I would quite like to have a job left at the end of this nightmare.

When I'm off Baclofen completely I'll then get one of the psychiatrists to prescribe me a new anti-depressant - not an SSRI. Someone here mentioned beginning with M - thanks, I'll research that one.

I have no desire for alcohol and will always associate it with this terrible few weeks.

Thanks for reading - and posting. Your comments mean a lot.:thanks: