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    Fred's Bac Thread

    Hello.

    I've dipped my toes in here a couple of times, but I have been paying close attention to baclofen progress threads and wanted to contribute something.

    Rather than write a long, meandering story I will give a timeline of the past week and go from there:

    9/18/12: Waiting for bac in the mail. I was sober for most of day in anticipation of a date. The date went ok, but the anxiety of meeting her and not drinking until 4:00 sent me straight to the bar. I had 3 margaritas and a confirmed blackout- I do not remember sending texts to my friends that I saw on my phone the next day. Thankfully, I live in a city and walk to my drinking spots.

    9/19/12: Horrible hangover, guilt and disgust consume me. My resolve never to drink again lasts, as usual, until 12:00-1:00 as it has been in my unemployed days. The first beer goes down slowly- maybe I can leave it at one to stave off the hangover. Then, the first beer gone, I feel NORMAL again! The guilt and shame from earlier in the day seem so distant as not to be real. A second, third and fourth beer are gone in the next two hours and I am once again drunk on a weekday afternoon. The bac arrives in the mail.

    9/20/12: Time for a second stab at bac. Having touched 70mg when my last batch ran out, I decide to start at 100mg. Not having a job, I don't exactly care if I pass out all day or not. An email comes in asking for a phone interview, which I accept. No drinking until after then. I quickly surmise that the person interviewing me is the owner of the small company, and he asks very loaded questions. He sympathized with me leaving my sales job because my personality (and, between us, sobriety) weren't cut out for it. "I'll give you a shot" he says. "You start Saturday, we're not making enough progress on this project so be prepared to work weekends." I jump at the chance. This sounds like an excellent opportunity to get my ass in gear, build a better career path and quit drinking. And what better way to celebrate than 7 beers?

    9/21/12: I awake as if from a coma. The combination of the alcohol and bac really did a number on me, and I feel so miserable that only more alcohol will make me feel better. But not before downing 150mg of bac. I journey down to my favorite Mexican restaurant for a margarita. The bartender looks somewhat surprised, this is the first time I've been there on a weekday afternoon. So now, not only do they know I'm an alcoholic but an unemployed alcoholic. No matter, I am far past the point of feeling pathetic. I return home and pass out, the bac has significantly reduced my tolerance and I go into another coma like sleep.

    9/22/12: I awake at 2:00 am. Work starts in 7 hours. There is too much anxiety to go back to sleep, so I spend this early morning as I've spent many others- planning for the future with excel sheets. It's usually some financial plan to get my student loans paid off, but now it's bac dosages. 150mg was clearly too much, as was 100mg. However, I think that 50mg would be a good starting point. Since my tabletten (get it?) are 25mg, I could ramp up by 25mg per week until I hit 150 again, which I should be able to do by Halloween. Anecdotally, the switch seems to occur around this point so I'll plan for that and keep ramping up otherwise. I go to my new job. My boss, a foul mouthed old Jew dressed in denim (and, coincidentally, an MIT grad), quickly lays out that this project is of such major importance that I must sign a secrecy agreement. I can't talk about it anywhere, not even on here. I work 8 straight hours and presented my results. He likes my progress and invites me to come back Monday. I arrive home thinking that a six pack and a pizza are exactly what I need. Six pack picked up and pizza ordered, I open my first Sierra Nevada. It disagrees with my stomach slightly and I put it down. Maybe when the pizza arrives it will taste better. But even with the pizza the beer doesn't taste the same- I drink half of it and put it down. It sits, half full, on my desk as I write this the next morning. Granted, I was so nervous and tired that neither food nor alcohol seemed appealing, but I have NEVER not finished a beer before. Time will tell if this is an ongoing trend.

    #2
    Fred's Bac Thread

    Hi Fred

    Not finishing a beer - that's great!! I'm at 130mg and have had 2 Sunday nights where I've had hardly anything to drink (small glass wine or few sips of hubby's beer) and been able to stop there. Unfortunately it's not like that every time I drink and I really struggle to get thru the next day when I drink a bottle of wine or more. Here's hoping this works for us.

    Cheers
    Sticky

    Comment


      #3
      Fred's Bac Thread

      Best wishes to both of you with it!

      Comment


        #4
        Fred's Bac Thread

        9-23-12: 50mg bac, 2.75 drinks. I found it difficult to finish 3 beers, which is strange. Another strange thing is that I got sick of surfing circles on the internet and picked up a book, which I haven't done in forever.

        9-24-12: 50mg bac, 1.5 drinks. Very tired from work, but my appetite was larger than usual. I ate half of a large pizza despite only having a beer and a half to calm my nerves and settle my stomach. Being able to eat so much is very unusual for me.

        9-25-12: missed dose. 2 drinks. I've been taking my bac in the evening to avoid somnolence during the daytime, but since i didn't feel like cooking or ordering out I went to a bar and had 2 beers. I got home exhausted and went straight to bed, forgetting to take my dose. Something will have to be done about my energy level, because it is not normal to drink so little and still be so tired all the time.

        9-26-12 50 mg, 4 drinks. Intense cravings on the way home from work. I bought a six pack with plans to demolish it, moderation plans be damned. I got through 4 beers before deciding to call it quits and go to bed.

        9-27-12: 50 mg bac, 2 drinks. Long day at work, though my boss has given encouraging signs that I'm doing a good job. i planned to down 4 beers again, but my exhaustion and the fact that I would have to drive off to overpay for a six pack (PA has really stupid alcohol laws, you can't just buy beer at a grocery store or gas station) was enough to keep me in for the night with my two remaining beers from yesterday.

        This update was cobbled together from notes on my excel progress sheet. One thing that's becoming clear is that reducing alcohol intake to a "moderate" level isn't doing anything for other aspects of my life. I KNOW the bac is working- even from the beginning of this log my consumption has gone way down. But it doesn't change the fact that I only eat once a day, don't exercise, don't talk to anyone and am slowly developing a beer gut (a year ago, despite drinking heavily, I actually had abs).

        I think this is what differentiates an addiction from a problem- it's become clear that I center my entire day around having two beers to the exclusion of everything else. Now that I'm sober enough to face down the void, a very ugly picture is emerging:

        I am completely undateable. If my drinking weren't enough to derail any potential relationship, the emotional instability brought on by the drinking would get me at some point. My isolation is spiraling deeper and deeper into a pit I don't know if I'll ever crawl out of.

        Despite having nice career potential, I am constantly broke. I say career potential because I've drank myself out of my last two jobs. The first time I was downing a margarita (or two) every night and started getting horrible anxiety attacks when the hangovers set in. I quit before it caught up to me. The second time I drank myself into such a deep depression that I refused to function at my assigned task. I was put on a probation period and quit before they could fire me. Now I'm working for much less money as an "intern" with no benefits. I can't afford to blow it again.

        Not to be too down on myself, there are too many things to fix at once. My first priority is to make this job permanent. Then I can sort out my financial mess and MAYBE I'll be in shape to start dating again. Time will tell...

        Comment


          #5
          Fred's Bac Thread

          I'll just mention a few things briefly that I have noticed myself, and with my friends who drink heavily.

          Firstly, a majority of women do not want a relationship with a guy who is not employed, so to keep your dating hopes up, keep in mind how important it is to have a stable job. It doesn't have to be a top career or carry a big title, but it does have to be a steady job (even if just casual or part time). This may be unfair on guys who can't find work through no fault of their own, but it exists, whether fair or not.

          You already know the second point...drinking that is not controllable or which results in behavioural problems equals no job and no relationship sooner or later. Also, if you live in a small or even medium sized town/city, the drinking problem and associated lifestyle gradually becomes known by more and more people. This happened to me anyway.

          A third point involves depression and social isolation. These two problems existed for me even before I started drinking too much, but drinking only made both problems worse (despite making everything SEEM better for a short time). If you are shy by nature, I'd urge you (very strongly) to do anything and everything you can to address this problem, because it can really ruin your life if it goes on for years without improvement. All I can say is that I wish I had found a way of overcoming my own shyness/social anxiety many years ago, because it has never gone away and even alcohol didn't give me confidence like it does with more average people. Depression can also become entrenched without any solid treatment, and limit your life similarly to social anxiety.

          I hope I didn't sound like a preacher, as I just wanted to comment on a few issues you raised and say how they have affected my life.

          Comment


            #6
            Fred's Bac Thread

            9-28-12: Missed Dose. 3 beers.

            Stressed out and exhausted from work. The beer shop's card reader wasn't working, so I went to the bar and had 3 beers. I then went to a Chinese restaurant and ordered a fourth beer with my dinner, but only had one sip.

            The Baclofen has had a definite effect on my volume of alcohol intake, but the frequency and habit of cracking one open first thing after work remain. Time for some tweaking. Until now I've been taking my Bac in the evening about an hour or so before bed so the somnolence won't interfere with my job. Based on other accounts I've read here, this does nothing to stave off the "witching hour" which, for most of us comes in the late afternoon. Today I took my dose in the morning to experiment and see how it would affect me on a day off. If this works (I feel tolerably woozy as I type this), I will hopefully be able to avoid cravings later in the day and put off drinking anything until I get some exercise/guitar practice/reading in first.

            Speaking of exercise, I bought a scale this morning and discovered that I weighed about 20 lbs more than I thought i did. My suspicions that I was becoming overweight have been bolstered by my increasing beer gut and chin fat. This is on a guy who's only 5'7" with skinny arms and legs- very unappealing to the ladies. Enough's enough! In addition to the bac regimen I'm going to start tracking weight and exercise as well as Moglor did in his thread. To get my weight down I'm going to adopt the following rules:

            - No more Sierra Nevada (175 calories) around the house, I will only keep Miller 64 (64 calories) in the fridge and drink stiff beers when I eat out
            -No more regular consumption of Mad Mex Big Ass Margaritas (800 calories). Last year I was drinking these on a nightly basis, and, although it took a while to pack the lbs on it eventually caught up to me. They're expensive too and this will be a money saver.
            -100 20lb kettlebell swings a day. I chose this as a starting point because it's a highly efficient compound exercise that I can get over with in a short amount of time. I hope to ramp this up to more reps and other types of kettlebell exercises like snatches and squats.

            @Greg:

            Thanks for your post, speaking the truth isn't preachy and I won't perceive it as such. The social anxiety issue has been an elephant in the room for my entire adult life. On one hand, if not for alcohol i would probably still be locked in my room playing video games alone which is all I did before I drank. On the other hand, the small, shallow social life alcohol afforded me has cost me dearly elsewhere. I'm hoping to come out of this with a sober, meaningful life.

            Comment


              #7
              Fred's Bac Thread

              9-29-12 75mg Bac, 100 kettlebell swings, 153 lbs, ZERO drinks

              Yesterday was my first day of exercising. 100 swings (in 4 sets of 25) left me completely exhausted. I was planning to drink with some friends, but for some reason I kept putting it off. This is strange, because usually I would go to the bar and pre-game before hanging out with them. It may have everything to do with the fact that taking 75 mg of bac at once knocked me out for a few hours. I won't claim to have no desire to drink (yet), but I find it quite odd that I didn't drink because I "just didn't get around to it".

              Comment


                #8
                Fred's Bac Thread

                Hi Fred. It's awesome to see a daily log here. It helps--helps you and helps everyone else who's kind of charting their own way and looking to see where they fit.

                Thing is, bac fixes one thing and really one thing only, from what I can tell. You'll stop drinking, but then there's everything else. Looks like you've got an eye toward all that other stuff. Just try not to get frustrated, k? It took a long time to get where you are, and it'll take as long as it takes to get out. But that's all right. It's just a process, and you're on the right track.

                All the best.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Fred's Bac Thread

                  Thanks Stuck.

                  I was in a treatment program for anxiety/depression over the Summer, and one thing I came away with is that fighting anxiety, depression, or in this case, an alcohol problem, is not a passive process. My therapist said that older approaches tried to address the underlying causes of depression, and that the result was a very well-informed person who was still depressed. In contrast, focusing on behaving in the face of depression/anxiety was found to get much better results because non-depressive behavior is rewarded and reinforced externally.

                  I think that keeping a log here is beneficial in that we have to hold ourselves accountable enough to keep track of things. It also puts one on the spot and forces a behavior that otherwise wouldn't get accomplished.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Fred's Bac Thread

                    9-30-12. 75mg Bac, 4 beers, 100 kettlebell swings, 153 lbs

                    Mixed day. On one hand, taking my dose in the morning works to stave off cravings later in the day and I plan to do that from now on. On the other hand, other issues such as my loneliness have come to the forefront now that I'm not sedated all the time and have thrown me into a state of panic. The amount of indifference my dating profile has met makes me very anxious that I may be alone for the rest of my life. Today was a rough day on that front and I went straight for the bottle. Interestingly enough, my urge to drink was pushed back to around 8:00 instead of 1:00. As has been kindly pointed out, I've got lots of other issues to work on besides drinking. At least I go back to work tomorrow and that will keep me occupied enough to not obsess over being lonely.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Fred's Bac Thread

                      Hi Fred

                      I love your picture. I struggled to get one up myself and gave up.
                      Good on you with your detailed updates. If bac works for you (& it sounds like it is already) then I'm sure you'll be datable in no time!

                      Cheers
                      Sticky

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Fred's Bac Thread

                        10-1-12

                        75 mg bac, 3 beers, 0 exercise

                        This is going to be a somewhat disappointing and complicated entry. I have neglected to inform you that I am also on zoloft and abilify since a nervous breakdown three years ago that left me in a permanent psychotic state. Not coincidentally, that was the beginning of my drinking problem. I will get into that incident in due time, but since my head is not clear right now I must focus on the present- being that I have been off of my meds for a week now and the horror is setting in.

                        Noises in the background threaten my existence like gunshots. Every conversation I hear in the distance is about me, they're conspiring to humiliate me and take me down a notch. I constantly feel as if I'm in front of a firing squad and that my soul is on the verge of being ripped out of my body and bashed against the sidewalk. This unending state of terror leaves a Charles Manson like glare in my eyes that unsettles and terrifies anyone I speak to or look at. I hide in my cubicle and nothing gets done in my pharmaceutically induced hell.

                        It has to be like this- I'm uninsured and what insurance I can afford has all kinds of hoops to jump through because abilify is $500 a month. There is no generic. Bristol Meyers Squibb has a patent on the drug that doesn't expire until 2014, and until then they can gouge me as much as they like. Finally, I break down and buy a week's worth on my credit card for $150. Hopefully my insurance application will be complete by then and it might be cheaper.

                        As I type this I am consumed by a deep sense of rage. Rage that a pharmaceutical company can reap an outrageous profit and allowing me not to live a life of horror and torment. Rage that insurance companies can take your money and contrive ways not to provide you with what you're paying them for. Rage that the monstrosities of another person can leave you with permanent psychiatric damage that requires a lifetime of medication.

                        So I'm drinking now. It is far preferable to enduring the mental equivalent of being skinned alive. Anyone who has gone through a psychotic state or anti-psychotic withdrawal knows what I'm talking about.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Fred's Bac Thread

                          I don't know your history or what medications you have tried, but are there any anti-psychotics you can tolerate and which work for you but are not extremely expensive? Are you able to see your doctor at short notice to discuss alternatives to Abilify? I haven't been psychotic so won't pretend to know what it is like, but switching to an affordable antipsychotic would seem a logical step, if there is one that helps you. Try and talk to your doctor ASAP if that is at all possible.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Fred's Bac Thread

                            The affordable antipsychotics are crap. That is why, in times past, you would hear of so many stories of schitzophrentics ending up on the street because they refused to take their medication. The side effects are just that bad. Abilify is the first such drug that doesn't make you feel like you're mixing LSD with antihistamines. If I were taking one of those such as Geodon, I guarantee you that I wouldn't be able to work. Abilify is the ONLY drug that works with tolerable side effects. In fact, when my psychiatrist made the conclusion that I had psychosis, he tried to start me on Geodon rather than Abilify. I hated the Geodon so much that I concluded that the psychosis was preferable to the side effects. He then started me on Abilify, but with the warning that he'd held off because, despite being the better drug, insurance companies would not pay for it.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Fred's Bac Thread

                              Fred_The_Cat;1386566 wrote: The affordable antipsychotics are crap. That is why, in times past, you would hear of so many stories of schitzophrentics ending up on the street because they refused to take their medication. The side effects are just that bad. Abilify is the first such drug that doesn't make you feel like you're mixing LSD with antihistamines. If I were taking one of those such as Geodon, I guarantee you that I wouldn't be able to work. Abilify is the ONLY drug that works with tolerable side effects. In fact, when my psychiatrist made the conclusion that I had psychosis, he tried to start me on Geodon rather than Abilify. I hated the Geodon so much that I concluded that the psychosis was preferable to the side effects. He then started me on Abilify, but with the warning that he'd held off because, despite being the better drug, insurance companies would not pay for it.
                              The insurance issue is ridiculous when a drug could help people but they can't afford it. A mate of mine has been in our local psychiatric clinic 3 times in less than a year, and they have never offered him Abilify. It has always been either Zyprexa or Seroquel, both of which have caused him bad side-effects. The Zyprexa caused him both extreme tiredness and extreme restlessness (akathisia I think it's called) at the same time, which sounds a bit like what you were saying about feeling like you took LSD and antihistamines at the same time. Seroquel wasn't as bad but his dose was fairly low compared to his Zyprexa dose (they had him on the 20 mg/day maximum Zyprexa dose but only around 300 mg/day of Seroquel).

                              This guy was also briefly tried on haloperidol and found it to be very helpful and tolerable, but for some reason they didn't let him stay on it. There is also a fairly new antipsychotic called amisulpride (Solian) which sounds quite beneficial without some of the side effects others have, but you may have already tried it.

                              I wish I could offer some constructive advice here but I'm sure you and your doctor would have already thought of all the possibilities, so I will be only going over things you have already though of.

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