Colin, 65

[Colin]

Colin, 65

October 30 - November 4

Oct. 30: On 150 mg throughout this period. Less irritating somnolence as days go by but still unacceptable in the long-term.
Oct. 31: Met the addiction specialist as described in an earlier post. I expect to remain at or just below 150 mg until the next meeting in a month's time. If I can achieve this without the SEs I will be satisfied.
Nov. 4: Woke to a clear blue sky and a 2/3 white moon. Great weather combined with Baclofen is a powerful mood elevator. At the gym during a trance-like pause between sets I noticed the beginnings of an erection. Both my age and Baclofen are conspiring to make me forgetful and I wondered what it might be like in 10 years' time. Now I remembered where I was, that this was not a good place to exhibit such behaviour and began thinking of something else. I can imagine a 75 year-old fart with a hard-on might not be considered seemly in a gym. Still, at that age I might be grateful for any appearance of salacious intent.

[Colin]

Colin, 65

Baclofen somnolence and Supplements

Baclofen seems a good way to suppress or eliminate cravings so that kudzu, l-glutamine etc. are less useful when combined with Baclofen. Is there any experience of ways to beat the Baclofen somnolence with additional potions or pills?

[Xadrian]

Colin, 65

I never tried it for baclofen somnolence, but could Red Bull be beneficial? Anyone who tried it? Did it help?

[kuya]

Colin, 65

Colin;1405638 wrote: Oct. 30: On 150 mg throughout this period. Less irritating somnolence as days go by but still unacceptable in the long-term.
Oct. 31: Met the addiction specialist as described in an earlier post. I expect to remain at or just below 150 mg until the next meeting in a month's time. If I can achieve this without the SEs I will be satisfied.
Nov. 4: Woke to a clear blue sky and a 2/3 white moon. Great weather combined with Baclofen is a powerful mood elevator. At the gym during a trance-like pause between sets I noticed the beginnings of an erection. Both my age and Baclofen are conspiring to make me forgetful and I wondered what it might be like in 10 years' time. Now I remembered where I was, that this was not a good place to exhibit such behaviour and began thinking of something else. I can imagine a 75 year-old fart with a hard-on might not be considered seemly in a gym. Still, at that age I might be grateful for any appearance of salacious intent.

You are too funny Colin, I know this is just your diary but your dry observations have me rivetted!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Colin, 65

Colin;1406924 wrote: Is there any experience of ways to beat the Baclofen somnolence with additional potions or pills?

Yep. There are lots of different potions and/or pills. I used some that I wouldn't recommend on an anonymous internet forum, but there are plenty of thread related to the subject.

When you get to the place where you don't have any urge to drink, and you can start to play around with your dosage (slowly, carefully, and with forethought) you'll find somnolence to be less of an issue.

[Colin]

Colin, 65

November 5 -11

Nov 4: On 150 mg throughout. The SEs are still on the wrong side of acceptable. In the next couple of weeks I'll either make a run up to the controlling dose (switch) or go back down to an acceptable level (+- 120 mg).
Nov 6: Another great start to the day - we're having an unusually pleasant autumn. Off for a walk in the woods at 10 am. As the route follows the A1 motorway I am overtaken by a flock of geese on their way South - the silly buggers missed the turnoff to the South on the A50 about 5 kilometers earlier. Now they are heading West - maybe they are taking the route followed by the army helicopters which also continues along the A1 before taking the A28 South.
Nov. 8: Paid a ?16 bill at the cafe where I had my last few drinks, some excellent Scotch whiskys, more than 6 months ago. No untoward urges surfaced during the visit - later I wondered wistfully if a couple of good malts might be OK but quickly banished the thought.
Visited the GP who told me that my leg and foot complaints were probably due to alcoholic polyneuropathy. Bad news since it is usually irreversible. If I had been told 10 years ago that this might be the result if I continued drinking it wouldn't have made much difference.
Now it looks as if I will be reliant on pain-killers if I want to go skiing or long cycle rides. Oh well - shit happens.
Nov 10: Another great day and it is expected to stay like this for most of the week. Today's Doonesbury http://assets.amuniversal.com/ee4eb6...52001dd8b71c47 puts my leg problems into perspective.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Colin, 65

Colin;1409553 wrote:
Visited the GP who told me that my leg and foot complaints were probably due to alcoholic polyneuropathy. Bad news since it is usually irreversible.
...
Oh well - shit happens.

I wonder about that? The leg pain, I mean. First of all, neuropathy is not really untreatable or irreversible. I mean, that's what conventional wisdom says, but conventional wisdom also says that we can't recover from alcoholism. And I know for fact that isn't right.
Second of all, StuckinLA has also had leg pain. Directly related (apparently?) to baclofen. He had some blood work done and they found that his vitamin B level was too high. How that is related to leg pain, or to bac, I don't know. But it may be something to look at. Unless the leg pain started pre-bac? ***Also, gabapentin is used to treat neuropathy, but also depression and perhaps would help with the somnolence in some way? We don't really know how all this stuff works, and I've found that sometimes things that are supposed to work one way, simply don't when HDB is taken into consideration. (Adderall for instance.)

I tried modafinil, but was generally hesitant to add another thing to the mix (I hate taking pills! :H) There are things other than that, btw. They can be difficult to obtain, however. A stimulant (adderall/ritalin type stuff) works. Not pleasant, but it will definitely keep you awake. A sympathetic doctor might be willing to prescribe for short term use. Mine was. Also ephedrin, which is available over the counter in the states. (With a driver's license because it can be used to make meth, I think.) There might be something similar in the UK, but I can't remember.

And of course, there's just the time factor. It all sort of levels out, I think.

I'm curious about your thoughts related to having a pint. Was it craving? As in drinking it felt like it would make the world right again? At what point will you know what's what?

And as far as the gym experience...Perhaps you're suffering from ifulovelife's problem? Actually, there was a period of time when my husband struggled with having a 17 year old's response to things...Like the wind blowing a certain way, or his wife (and I would assume any other woman) entering the room. It wore off. Which was a little sad. It was a bit of a relief, too. That was an exhausting couple of weeks.

[Colin]

Colin, 65

Ne/Neva Eva;1410353 wrote: I wonder about that? The leg pain, I mean......
I'm having blood tests for vitamins and sugar but these are unlikely to have much effect on the problem. The pain might be helped a little by gabapentin and/or other pain medication. This is all a matter of degree - decreasing the muscle pain might then bring the knee cartilage problem into the forefront. I'm hoping that a bit of clever pain-killing can get me onto a ski-slope this winter but it won't be the end of the world if I don't manage it.

With the modafinil and other stimulants all working in the same area as baclofen, like you I will be careful about trying them out.

The thoughts provoked by the cafe visit were (1) the pleasant warm glow and fine taste of the malt whiskey six months earlier and (2) the fact that a couple of hours later I was paralytically drunk.

EDIT: Next physical forward reference is
Colin;1418471 wrote: It seems that cannabis ...

[Colin]

Colin, 65

November 12 - 20

Still at 150 mg per day throughout. Sleeping well, up to 10 hours a night. Usually a 1 - 3 hour period of somnolence during the day.

Nov. 14: Becoming forgetful - I went upstairs and when I got there I'd forgotten what a went for. Baclofen? Age? Alcohol damaged brain? A little of all three?
Nov. 15: Got the results of some blood tests. Vitamins and blood sugar are OK which means that alcoholic polyneuropathy is the most likely cause of the muscle pain. The pains are symmetric in the thighs and calves but absent above the hips. The jury is still out.
Nov. 16: The blood pressure measurements are confirming a large drop (10 mg Hg)in both systolic and diastolic pressure around the period that I swallow a baclofen pill.
Nov. 19: A whole day without a really dozy moment.
Nov. 20: Blood pressure 140/80 and pulse 67 half an hour after a pill is surprisingly high. Perhaps I am getting used to the baclofen? The GP called and advised amitriptyline for the leg pains. He also asked for more blood tests to discover whether my heart was a problem considering the baclofen intake.

[Colin]

Colin, 65

Matters of degree.

Small changes in water temperature below 100 degrees centigrade don't lead to any physical change other than a slight expansion and an associated small decrease in density. Taking the temperature above 100 leads immediately, at sea level, to the remarkable change from water to steam. A small change in the quantity of heat leads to a big change in the quality. Ameisen's controlling dose, a.k.a. the "switch", seems to be another of these natural changes where a small dose increase below the controlling dose leads to a small increase in the sense of well-being and the small increase through the controlling dose leads to an almost euphoric improvement.

When first reading about Ameisen's experiences and other tales of baclofen I found the notion of a "controlling dose" somewhat far-fetched. Now it seems quite likely that it is just another instance of something like water boiling or a body of nuclear material reaching a critical mass. This all seems like a complicated way of writing that I believe that a personal switch is probable and that it is only a question of increasing the dose.

Another question of degree is raised by the opprobrium being heaped on Dr. Phillip Thomas, also known here as B4A. for charging 150 pounds an hour for his time. A good-looking Dutch whore costs about the same and when I was working my company charged even more for my services. The poor man needs to make some money somehow. If he had only charged $150 would that have been acceptable?

Today I began taking amitriptyline, 10 mg per day and increasing, as a painkiller for my probable polyneuropathy. What is one more drug? it is just another mind altering drug (JAMAD) My soup is now enriched with citalopram, mirtazapine, baclofen and amitriptyline. Just add alcohol and marijuana to taste and I'll take off like a rocket or collapse with a whimper? How far do I go with the amitriptyline? Is there a "critical dose"?

Amitriptyline was originally developed as an anti-depressant and later found application as an effective migraine prophylactic. That it might help against alcohol induced neuropathy is certainly tying all my complaints together. It's hard to believe in so many coincidences.

[Colin]

Colin, 65

I am not B4A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSCemjttDvw[/video]]The Baclofen 4 Alcoholism Handbook - 'Cure' Your Alcoholism with Baclofen - YouTube is a good introduction to baclofen by the devil in question. I will not mention his name again.

[Sticky]

Colin, 65

Hi Colin

I restarted my thread at your suggestion. I've just gone from 150mg to 140mg as SE's were crippling. I only read your last few posts, but I love your humour. Especially the gym story! One thing women don't have to worry about I suppose. We can feel it but it can't be seen. Not that it's happened to me in the gym that I can remember.....

Someone in NZ lost interest in sex on bac and also got very depressed. She ended up taking 120 bac at once and going into a coma, so no more bac for her. At least we are the lucky ones if bac and antidepressants don't dampen our sex drives!

Take care
Sticky

[Colin]

Colin, 65

The Plot Thickens

At the end of this page Amitriptyline ? Pain Concern there is advice to take gabapentin in conjunction with amitriptyline for pain relief. Other drink junkies also recommend gabapentin for other reasons.

[Colin]

Colin, 65

No longer surprised.

Efficacy of gabapentin in migraine prophylaxis. [Headache. 2001] - PubMed - NCBI contains -

CONCLUSION:
Gabapentin is an effective prophylactic agent for patients with migraine. In addition, gabapentin appears generally well tolerated with mild to moderate somnolence and dizziness.

[Colin]

Colin, 65

November 21 - 25

Nov. 21: Started amitriptylene at 10 mg in the morning. Looks like this is slow titration until it hits the diminishing returns. if the pain has been partially helped then the next step might be to add gabapentin.

Nov. 24: Although I rarely suffer from cravings I recognised an old friend, boredom, who in the past regularly dragged me off to the pub.
I have recently been reading poems by Robert Burns, Philip Larkin, T.S. Eliot and Dylan Thomas. All of them paint a dour realistic view of existence and three of them were very heavy drinkers. If they had found Baclofen would we have been deprived of some of their poetry?

Nov. 25: Woke at 5 am and had an early bac before getting out of bed at 8. I was in an unusually calm state of acceptance of my uncertain future.
Having added amitriptylene to my collection I will try to stabilise the baclofen, probably at just below 150 mg so that the possible soporific and anti-depressant effects of amitriptylene can be identified as such.

The biological notion of a half life seems inappropriate in discussions about baclofen. From my own and other peoples' experiences there seem to be four distinct time measurements.
(1) Very short term, 15 - 60 minutes after popping a pill before a feeling of release from some compulsive idea and in my case at least, a noticeable mood elevation.
(2) The increasing soporific effect as the day's dose builds up.
(3) A couple of days after an increase in dosage leads to a lessening of the side effects.
(4) The main reason we are all in this business - how long till the controlling dose is reached?