just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

[joanna_d]

hi all,

i'm happy to have found this forum as i was getting a little desperate and feeling lost about how to use the baclofen. reading all your comments here gave me new hope and made me feel less alone in my struggle.

i've started taking baclofen a few weeks ago. increasing the dose up until now has been a bit messy, as i had no idea how to increase and up to what level (my gp has never prescribed baclofen in higher doses than 50 mg, but is willing to go along with me, although i don't know how far).
last week i read dr. Ameisen's book, and it gave me some more info on how to use it.

what got me a little desperate, is that i've been taking 50 mg, then 70 mg the last two days, but i'm still drinking heavily (i've stopped a bunch of times over the last years, but right now i can't get myself to quitting, so i'm hoping to decrease my alcohol (ab-)use while taking baclofen, to a point where i'm free from it). from what i read here, i understand i just have to continue increasing the dose until i hit some turning point.
is there anyone that can tell me a bit more about this?

i really hope this will work out for me. i've tried campral, naltrexon, antabus/refusal, all without (lasting) success.

kind regards,

Joanna

[ifulovelife2]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Hi Joanna

Welcome . yes, you're right, you have to keep increasing the dose until you get to what some people refer to as 'the switch', where you become indifferent to alcohol. The switch point could be an number. There are some who hit it at fairly low doses, close to what you are already on, while others need to take several hundreds of mg/day. Trying to stop or reduce while you're titrating up is a good idea, it can help in 2 ways: reduce the effects of any side effects you might be having and also to stop you drinking through the switch i.e. allowing yourself to recognise when you've hit it, which can be overlooked if you continue to drink heavily. That said, many people find themselves actually increasing their alcohol consumption during their titration but manage to switch anyway.

I'm glad you found us, Joanna. Please keep updating your thread, let us know how you are doing and make sure you read as much as you can on this site, particularly the longer threads (go to the colomns on the side and hit the words 'replies' or 'views' to see which baclofen threads were popular, these usually contain an awful lot of information.

Good luck.

Mx

[Xadrian]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Switch dose

Hi there, Joanna

The moment you hit the switch (you called it turning-point) is when you are in control of the alcohol and not the other way around.

Although I could feel that I was near the switch, because I didn't enjoy the alcohol so much anymore and was drinking slower and less, i've seen a lot of people on this forum drinking heavily all the way up and passed their switch without even know it.

They are still drinking because they are used to and not because they NEED it anymore.
Remember, Baclofen does not prevent you from drinking, but makes you indifferent to alcohol.

You could test it (try) staying sober for a day. Best if you don't have access to alcohol that day.
If you can do without it and without heavy cravings (not when you would like to drink but you HAVE to drink) and can repeat that for several days, you've probably hit your switch and should stay on that dose for a while.

If you still HAVE to drink, you didn't reach your switch yet and should increase slowly and test it again after a while.
It can help trying to reduce the amount of alcohol intake, so you will be better aware of the effects of Baclofen.

Anyway, try to avoid going over 2 mg Baclofen per kg of body weight. You would not be the first who experienced severe side effects above that dose.

Wishing you success.

[Xadrian]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

LoveLife,

You just won me, replying sooner than me, but I'm glad we both agree on the right method. H?h

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Hi Joanna and welcome!

Yep. What they said! And yes, increasing the dose in regular increments is the way to get to the point that you don't want to drink anymore.

Reading as much as you can around here would probably benefit you in the journey.

I would offer a word of caution and a suggestion: Messy is not something you want to be about how much and how often you take baclofen. It can make the experience really difficult. Planning ahead and keeping a diary of sorts of what you take and when may be really helpful.

Mind you, my titration was very messy! I tried to be really organized about it, and kept a journal of my doses. I can't understand much of what I wrote in it because I was usually very drunk by the time I wrote down the day's doses, but I understood it then.

It takes a while for most of us, Joanna. Maybe 6 weeks, maybe 4 months. It takes what it takes, in terms of time and amount of baclofen. It took me four months, and they were pretty unpleasant, but I am extremely grateful that I stuck with it. It's nothing short of a miracle. I don't think about alcohol anymore, much less crave it. The only times I find myself relating to who I was bac(k) then are when I'm reading here, or sharing with someone from here!

Keep reading and posting! If you've tried all the other meds I'm guessing you've tried the more traditional approaches, too. There is some wisdom to be found in having a support network (mine was here at MWO) and having a way to stay accountable. And also a way to get answers to questions!

Keep the faith, too! It works!

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

thanks so much for your replies. it helps me to not feel so alone with this!

i am finding i'm drinking more the last couple of days. this can also be caused by me reading so much about alcoholism.
i'm glad i have work for two days a week that gives me the need to keep my life at least a bit structured and not dive into a lake of alcohol (the other days i work in my studio as an artist. i'm almost reluctant to visit my studio right now, 'cause it's a trigger for drinking: i tend to drink to 'loosen myself'. very frustrating, that my life's passion now feels like a dangerous and depressing thing to me)
i'm going to set my alarm for the baclofen doses from now on, 'cause i tend to forget to take them when i've been drinking... i'm really afraid of screwing this up, i feel it's perhaps my last chance to get out.
i'm doing 75 mg today.

Xadrian, your remark about not going over 2mg per kg of body weight gives me the uneasy feeling that i'm already close to the limit...
but i know i'm not the first one to deal with this, and reading all the success story's here, i think i'll just have to keep faith

i'll keep on reading here, great to have a resource with so much information. and i'll keep trying to diminish my drinking while increasing the baclofen.

thanks!

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

left a beer in the fridge last night and switched to tea!

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

one question: in your experiences, is it preferreable to take the baclofen in small doses throughout the day, or better 3 times daily? or maybe it doesn't matter.
i'm taking 5 times 15 mg now.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Hi again, Joanna!

I would respectfully disagree with X about the weight and dose correlation. I weigh about 130 lbs (~27k) and I went up to ~320mg of baclofen. My husband weighs a lot more, and also stopped drinking against his will at 320mg. It's been pretty firmly established that weight has little to do with it, though I know that Ameisen stated that in his book.

It's just a matter of time. Well, that and willingness to jkttdp! (just keep taking the damn pills!) I found that splitting my doses up into small increments really helped. I also drank more, or less, at various times in my titration up. The more hurts, though, so be aware. If the SEs get really bad and you can take a night or two off, that should help. (Did I say that in my last post? I didn't look. anyway...)

Hang in there, Joanna.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Oh, and two more things:

Congrats on leaving the beer in the fridge! That thrilled me when I woke up to find I hadn't finished the last little bit. It's very encouraging, isn't it?

And the side effects I experienced were the worst when I was at the lowest doses. I don't know if that was anxiety, or fear, or what. But it took me about 6 or 8 weeks to get up to a place where I was comfortable, about 70mg, I think? So you just can't tell what level is going to be difficult.

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

ah thanks. i'm really cheerfull today because of the beer that's STILL in the fridge

i feel a bit drowsey and sick in the stomac now, i think from the baclofen, but it's quite doable and will probably dissappear in the next couple of days. i'm sticking to 75mg until friday, and then i'm going to see about increasing the bac.
this weekend i felt really depressed, 'cause i was drinking really heavily while taking the bac and i got fatalistic. yesterday i somehow managed to keep thinking "do i really need another beer, or is this just because i'm used to keep on drinking until i drop?". and i decided i really didn't need or want that last one.

okay, let's not get too extatic now, and just continue like this.

(as i understand it, it's different for everyone, so i'll just follow my own carefull path. i'm going to have a talk with my gp this afternoon, to tell her what info i've found about using baclofen. i hope she will agree that i should try it like this, and not stick to the max dosage of 50mg that she wanted to give me)

[Xadrian]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Side effects

Dear Ne/Neva Eva,

I mentioned that the (undesired) side effects probably have a relation with the dose/weight index. Not the main (desired) effect.

Anyway, one should be careful with very high doses and preferibly be under supervision of a doctor.

[Xadrian]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Maximum dose

Dear Joanna,

If the 50 mg wasn't your switch dose, it seem pretty useless to me to stick at 50 mg and your GP should understand that too.

Although leaving the beer in the fridge at 75 mg and still not HAVE to drink that damn beer, is a pretty good indication for reaching your switch very soon, or maybe already reached it.

Here's some personal advice:

Wait if the moment comes until you really HAVE to drink that beer. If so, take an extra pill (10 mg) immediately at that moment. If the craving disappears within half an hour, that's good and you are really near your switch. The next days you then stay at 85 (75 + 10) mg, but divide it evenly over the clock.

If you don't HAVE to drink that beer, you've probably already reached your switch and should stay at that dose for a month or so, before decreasing to find your maintenance dose.

P.S. It helps if you have some alcohol free drinks in the fridge that you really like, so you can see if you want the beer for the taste and the effects, or just because it is chilled.

[ifulovelife2]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Xadrian;1393419 wrote:
I mentioned that the (undesired) side effects probably have a relation with the dose/weight index.

Says who? Where has this dose to weight thing come from all of a sudden? I thought that was discounted years ago.

[Xadrian]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Discounted

Dear LoveLife,

Same question to you: Discounted by whom?

If you weigh less, then you generally have less blood than heavier people (women have even less blood, because generally they have a larger percentage of body fat). Since Baclofen is distributed by the blood, the levels per liter of blood will be higher in people with less blood.
This has probably influence on (some of) the effects.

It's the same principle with alcohol: If you give half a bottle of wine to a man of 100 kg and the other half to a woman of 50 kg, the woman gets far more tipsy than the man

Same principle with rat poison (don't try it at home).

Regardless of anyone's opinion about the dose/weight relation, I would underline the importance to stay at the safe side (even when we did't stay at the safe side with alcohol and still survived).
Like alcohol is a hard drug and not a soft drink, Baclofen is a medicin and not candy.