just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

(it just struck me again how weird it actually is, to be writing about me me me in public like this)

[soberwannabe]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Congrats Jo! Enjoy the wonder of it all!

I found it quite interesting the first time I walked down the beer aisle with no 'sparks' going off in my head.

I can say I can't believe I am decorating the house for Christmas and I have NOT thought about beer. No cravings, nothing.. actually, I have to force myself to think about it, because I don't.

I am still in awe that this tiny little white pill is the dragon slayer of my alcoholic demons.

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

thanks Sober! so happy you're doing so well yourself!!!
don't know yet, what i'll do this christmas... last year i stayed in my studio and just worked through the whole thing. nice and quiet everywhere around me...

my tummy is making noises like a little piggie that's rolling in the mud after being in a tiny dark worn out stable for all of it's life

feel much better today, after a strange night, don't know if i really slept or only just laid there and rested, but even then, laying awake and realizing i'm free (FREE!!!?????? how can this be?????!!!!!!) i enjoyed it thoroughly.
i'm starting to imagine all the things i can do with my time and energy now. i'll HAVE to start drawing again, otherwise i'd be just utterly bored and unhappy and still not alive. and that's incompatible with how i feel right now, which is: like waking up after years and years of half sleep, seeing through a haze that thoroughly altered my perception.
it's quite a challenge for me: drawing SOBER.... iiiiew will i start drawing fluffy bunnies and blue clouds now? - no i guess it will take some time to get into the creative process again, but i guess then it will only get so much better.... concentrated, not with one eye on the beer, and every time running to the liquor store... i'll have to face my anxiety and perfectionism sober, and i think in the end i'll find i can.
CURIOUS ABOUT THAT!!!!
and for the rest: writing papers, studying, model drawing with befriended artists (i haven't seen for months and months now, some of them: years), long doggie walks, going to exhibitions, whatever! i can just jump in the car at night and go see a performance in Antwerp or something!!

and now already: all this shame i feel dripping of of me. i don't have to feel ashamed anymore! instead of stumbling in there every day, already half (or totally) drunk trying to keep my head up high, i can walk past that night shop, waving and smiling!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

I am so happy to read your post this morning and sorely needed the smile.

Bunnies and blue clouds? I haven't seen any of your work, but I'm guessing not. Who knows, though? They could be the baddest-ass bunnies ever seen, slaying demonic octopi that envelop brain cells. (That's sometimes how I think of the beast called alcoholism. And that is a picture I would buy. Well, probably not. I'm frugal, and a student. Both of which I can be now that I don't drink against my will. [WAIT until you see how much money you have! You won't believe it!!! ] But I would admire it.)

Gotta go. Hope it's a good day!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Hullo?

[cookinghappy]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Are you ok? I've been quietly following your story and have appreciated your input on my post. I haven't contributed because I don't yet feel i have any wisdom to impart. but I'm so thrilled for your success! You have come so far! I live in Brussels so feel close to you when you talk of Duvel etc! I've found this week that rather than finish a bottle of wine a night, i've been stopping after 3/4 of a bottle, and it's been easy. However, tonight i happily sunk a whole bottle and know I'll feel shitty tomorrow. Sometimes I feel teased by Baclofen. Just when i think I'm moving towards the 'switch' I go back to a whole bottle. I hope that's not why you are not posting tonight. I just wanted to say I'm thinking of you.

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

hi Cooking, and Ne

i haven't been posting, 'cause the situation is quite confusing and i'm feeling so much, in all kind of directions. guess i don't want to trouble you with all that.

don't worry Cooking, i couldn't finish even half a glass if i wanted to
i found that high dose baclofen is in the end (for me: 225mg) basically incompatible with drinking. no more, no less. it's just incompatible.

to be honest over the last week (3 days AF now, not counting the few sips i tried on tuesday to discover it was still to disgusting to drink) i sometimes wanted to drink (mostly around my usual witching hour), and thought "alcohol tasted so good, and i enjoyed it so much, do i have to miss this for the rest of my life??"
but after thinking these thoughts for a while, i concluded "yeah, it was so great and enjoyable right, all these years of feeling ashamed, drinking myself to death, losing so much and so much lifetime".
i thought this is like the stockholm syndrome (you know, what people sometimes have when they've been held captive and have been tortured for a very long time: the victim develops sympathetic feelings towards their torturer, and even tends to defend him).
so after that, whenever i get into thoughts like these, i know "stockholm syndrome", and by that put them into perspective (not to suppress those feelings and thoughts, as i think suppressing isn't helpful)

Ne wrote in some other thread i think that she didn't immediately reach indifference, but that is was first disgust. i feel the same way.

like you, i tended to drink even more while on bac. most days, up to the switch, i drank the beer equivalent of at least 2 bottles of wine (and a lot of days: 3). i strongly recommend everyone to try NOT to do this, it's really horrible. (i'll write an overview of my bac upbuild later). for me, it seemed impossible to do it any other way though.
and what's the most important: it still worked.

Ne/Neva Eva;1425738 wrote: I am so happy to read your post this morning and sorely needed the smile.

Bunnies and blue clouds? I haven't seen any of your work, but I'm guessing not. Who knows, though? They could be the baddest-ass bunnies ever seen, slaying demonic octopi that envelop brain cells. (That's sometimes how I think of the beast called alcoholism. And that is a picture I would buy. Well, probably not. I'm frugal, and a student. Both of which I can be now that I don't drink against my will. [WAIT until you see how much money you have! You won't believe it!!! ] But I would admire it.)

glad to have given you a smile Ne
and yes, i'll definitely do drawings based on all of this.
do you know Monty Python? there's an inspiring bunny in the Holy Grail (great movie): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg[/video]]Holy Grail - Killer Bunny - YouTube

[Jessy]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Hello Joanna, so glad to hear from you! And you are doing so well. I'm so glad with your story, i'm just a newby, only introduced myself 2 months ago. But reading here everything i can find. I am on Bac now also for about 14 days. Now 45 mg a day (3 doses of 15 mg). No prescription of a doctor, ordered it at Andalusien Shop online. A little bit scared for the SE. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

I am also from Holland (Arnhem),

Jessy

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

hi Jessy, good to hear from you! i found your thread (sorry i didn't see it earlier. there's just so much going on at this forum, and also in my own life apparently...) and will follow it from now on. if you ever want to speak in dutch, you can send me a private message and i'll be happy to.
i've also found a few articles in dutch, explaining the chemistry related to baclofen/gaba b and alcohol.

great that you found and started baclofen!
is there no gp/doctor in Arnhem that describes baclofen?
i have no experience with online ordering. in some threads i read that baclofen strength can differ, and that they sometimes got very heavy baclofen from online sellers.
for me, the regular addiction care centers over here (Rotterdam) where of no use what so ever, as they were very reluctant to prescribe baclofen and even if they would have, they'd handled it totally wrong (i knew that then already, cause i'd been reading about baclofen myself). they insisted i first go completely AF, which wasn't an option for me then (and now), and only wanted to prescribe it in low doses.
i guess it'll be the same in Arnhem.
but fortunately my doctor was willing to go along with my experiment ("she said, well, we're both intelligent people, so why not try it?" i was baffled! in all the regular addiction care i had it was rare to be treated as an intelligent person)

anyway, try not to worry about the se's too much. they're different for everyone, and also different per dose. sometimes you feel sick on one dose, to find you have less problems on a little higher dose. what's your tiration schedule?
just listen to yourself very carefully when going up a dose, don't rush it, and while you're getting in the higher doses, try to drink less, cause drinking combined with high dose baclofen is pure horror.

try to consider this time as a very precious time for you and give yourself as much space as you can for this. Ne somewhere said "it's like chemo for alcoholics", and although she didn't mean it should be total suffering, it kind of helped me to think of it that way. 'cause what would you do if you'd be in a cancer curing treatment? you'd be taking gooood care of yourself, giving yourself all the comfort and rest you could find, cause you'd know after this, you'd have a promise of life. (and alcoholism is a disease as deadly as cancer, only surrounded by idea's of how it's you're own fault, you should get a reality check, you have to work on your motivation and stop denying and so on) the difficulty about this treatment is that the people around you mostly don't understand what you're going through, you don't have a doctor telling you what steps to take, a nurse holding your hand and taking care of you and comforting you saying it'll be fine, just go through it for now. use this forum as your doctor and nurse!! it's so great, don't know how i'd done it without these people!!!! :l:l

for me it was and is one of the most important processes in my whole life (if not THE most important) and it still is.
it's very confronting in a lot of ways, i definitely learned so much about myself. outside i felt i was losing everything (more like: i was confronted with all i'd lost over decades of drinking. i'd always resisted this, 'cause i was always trying to keep my head up high) and wasn't able to do much (also due to my drinking alongside baclofen), but inside soooo much was happening. not only mentally, also physically: i could literally feel all the stuff going on in my brain.

it took me about 2 and a half months (in hindsight that actually doesn't sound like a long time for such a deathly disease to be cured of, but while going through it, it sometimes felt like ages, 'cause i kept on doubting if it would work for me, which kind of got me stuck in some nowhere land).

i may sound a little decisive when i say this, but i actually can't imagine how this wouldn't work for anyone who went all the way with it. it's just physically impossible, in my opinion and experience.

keep going and keep posting Jessy!! i hope in a few months or more, as long as it takes, i'll hear you saying the same things i was saying this week. (like "oh my god it's starting to happen..... what the fuck do i do now???!!!!" :H ) i only hope it'll be less of a struggle for you as it was for me, because of my heavy drinking.

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

one more thing: even while on high dose baclofen, suddenly dropping from heavy drinking to zero for me was very heavy and in some moments i got scared.
even though the baclofen takes away most alcohol withdrawal symptoms (without baclofen i'd have probably ended up in hospital, if i'd have had the awareness to call an ambulance. not that i'd ever gotten to this without baclofen!!) and made me go through it without delirium or worse, i still felt it was on the verge of being dangerous.
if i'd known this before, i'd probably asked my doctor for some benzo's low dose to get through the first days. the strange thing that happened now is that i knew they were alcohol withdrawal symptoms, but i just couldn't drink anymore to soften them! and after about two days of this, i thought okay, i'll probably get through this without help now. and while my body is still in recovery (i've been sleeping my ass off, every night soaked in sweat, even towels in my bed aren't enough anymore), after a few days i started to feel better, and it'll keep getting better every day.

and i've already said it somewhere amidst a lengthy story, but i want you to explicitly know that I'M SO THANKFUL TO ALL OF YOU FOR YOUR LOVING SUPPORT!!!!!!!!!! :l:l:l

i don't know how how would have done this without you all, really, you're amazing....

[TexasAg]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Jessy :welcome:

I'm so glad you found this forum.

Jo! I am soooooo happy for you! You're posto to Jessy made me feel warm inside!

Cheers!

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

hi all,
sorry for not posting. i just haven't been feeling well, physically that is mostly, and was struggling with that.
i was disappointed in myself and angry for reaching the switch and not being able to enjoy it, not being able to go out and do the stuff that's open to me now i'm off booze, to explore this whole new space.
i hope the happiness about sobriety and freedom of AL will still come when i'll feel better.... it seems like such a shame, i've invested so much struggle in this, i could use some feeling of liberation, victory. and damn i deserve some!!

i do think last week the first days after going AF i had alcohol withdrawal symptoms. fortunately since a few days i'm not sweating like a madwoman anymore at night in bed (even towels were no help anymore), although i know some people over here are skeptic about withdrawal symptoms while on baclofen. i know what i'm feeling.

more things: severe headaches over the last few days (different than the headaches i had when i suddenly went AF last week), symptoms of bladder infection, yeast infection, strange things going on in my intestines and what they're producing, trouble eating, i'm cold, i feel very very weak and tired.
over the last few days i found they are all symptoms that fit detoxification. so i think that's what's happening. it's not that abnormal after the life i've had until now, to say the least.

i've been reading about psychosomatic symptoms and their meaning. i think this perspective is useful, though it should always be regarded in a broader concept (it can also be a narrowing view, to deduce everything to something that results from things happening between your ears). these text have given me some really helpful ideas. the descriptions fit me well. (too much hassle to give an impression right now)

so, instead of trying to fight this, and being angry with myself, or worried that being sober will come with a very high price (my joy in life), after a therapy session yesterday (we talked about me being stripped off of all my old beliefs and expectations and image, everything is different now, and i don't really have the words yet to talk about it) i'm just giving in to my need for rest and quiet and a little pampering.

instead of expecting myself to get up and jump around after decades of half sleep, i could regard this as waking up slowly, the body recovering from all that abuse during the big sleep, and quietly getting ready for the jumping around part, that hopefully will come.

i've started meditating again.
i look i don't know how many years younger after 11 days AF.
i don't have bottles lying around every morning. that's a kick.
did some drawing this week (first time in i don't know how long. baclofen combined with booze were just too much to have any focus left. not that i have any now but i guess i've got a bit of a spark thing going on in there ), on a day with no obligations. forunately, because of the holidays, i won't have a lot to do next week, so maybe there'll be more moments like these, so i can start up my creative process again. that would be so good. i NEED to get some energy out after these months of being so locked inside myself.

i'll just have to be caring and patient with myself. i'm doing lots of herb tea, lemon water, bought ginger for tea, milk thistle tea (good for detoxing and repairing liver cells!), celery and stuff to help detoxification. sauna would be good right now, but it's too public for me right now. will do that as soon a i feel up to it.

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

how the fuck do you eat celery? :H

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Jo!!! I woke up thinking about you this very early morning. It's good to get an update.
Sorry you're feeling discombobulated. Everything you've written is reasonable and rational. (That in itself was a bit of a new experience for me. Not that I am not a relatively reasonable and rational person. But booze made me jumpy. Even in my thought process, and even when I wasn't drunk. Does that make sense? I guess what I'm trying to say is that addiction doesn't begin and end with picking up the bottle. That kind of slavery is a 24/7 affair.)

Your experience may be a bit unusual in that one day you were a rip-roaring drunk and the next you couldn't stomach the stuff even to stave off the physical withdrawal. Many of us taper off more than that. But in most other ways we are all one and the same. It IS disconcerting to wake up one day totally different than the day before. (What a weird thing that is, isn't it? It's inconceivable, really. And impossible to explain to someone who hasn't had a switch.)

I really remember those days as being one huge happy-fest, but I doubt that's true. In fact, I know it's not. And if we continue the chemo analogy, and you think about what it's like for that kind of patient to finally finish treatment, having met the goal, imagine what that's like...It's exhausting fighting for your life. And then you wake up and don't have that specific goal anymore. You go from "Let me just get through this day. Just this day!" to "well, what the fuck now???"

The rest will come, with enough rest. But there are a couple of things that may make or break how well the whole adjustment goes that you might want to watch out for. Many (most!?) people think that once the deal is done the process is over. It isn't. Reaching out to people (here) who get what you're going through--or finding some outlet and support for all that stuff in your mind is a good idea. Lack of that is not a good thing, in general. (Studies show this. Repeatedly.)

I also think there is a tendency for a lot of us to try to get "healthy" all at once. I remember one woman who was doing colonics and epsom salt baths and increased her supplements and was trying to eat really well and exercise and, and, and... She couldn't understand why she had a skin rash, and was totally stressed and strung out when she was doing everything "right". Doing everything right isn't sustainable and it isn't necessary. You know? (I remind myself of this on a regular basis, when I beat myself up for not exercising, or eating an entire family-size bag of MnMs in a matter of days...Whatever, Ne! To borrow from that recovery program, Progress, not perfection.)

You'll draw again and better than ever. I asked Lowcountryman (who was a dear friend and got sober when I was still really struggling) if he thought he lost his creative juice after he quit drinking. He was a musician. He told me he connected with his guitar in a way that he had never been able to before. That makes sense, doesn't it? Because it is a whole New World.

I really wish I had it in me to learn about the visual arts. I'd like to 'see' and be able to portray that beast that was wrapped around the cells in my brain.

Alrighty, I'm off to challenge this day! (That's what my days are like right now. A challenge. ugh.) I think I'll use Stuck's thread to spill all my beans. If I can figure out where I have 15 minutes for that!

xo Jo.
:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

joanna_d;1431012 wrote: how the fuck do you eat celery? :H

With peanut butter. Everything is better with peanut butter, actually.