just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

I forgot to ask how much bac you're taking. Have you changed it at all? And what about the AD?

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

i'm still taking 225mg, as i did when i couldn't drink anymore. not sure if i've gotten indifferent yet really, so the idea of diminishing baclofen is kind of scary to me.
but all the same, if these headaches continue, i'll have to do something. go down on the baclofen? go up? (argh!). i've bought several types of pain killers, they just don't do anything.
if the bladder thing continues (i have a homeopathic thing to treat this with, but now it doesn't seem enough) i'm going to have it tested and perhaps antibiotics.

ssri's same dose as when i started baclofen (only went up with that for a few days. fortunately you got me second guessing this Ne. over the last weeks i've been reading that ssri's can somewhat level out baclofen).
when i feel better for a while, i want to try and diminish them and maybe go off of them.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

joanna_d;1431026 wrote: not sure if i've gotten indifferent yet really...
:H No? I'm pretty sure this next part of your post indicates you don't drink against your will anymore:

joanna_d;1431026 wrote: i'm still taking 225mg, as i did when i couldn't drink anymore.

I wouldn't stay at a dose that makes me suffer with things that I can't control, after having tried to manage them. (Somnolence doesn't really count. Not yet anyway. That's just a fact of life for a little while...Sorry.) 10mg makes a difference. And going down (post-switch) is VERY different than going up. Two totally different experiences. It is really weird.

And while I don't want to delve into all of that stuff that goes on between our ears, and whether or not it creates SEs, I have no doubt that there is a direct link. Direct. Which is not to say it's all in our heads. Not at all.

(btw did you see the post on the previous page? I've been so loquacious on your thread this morning I don't know if you would have looked on the previous page?)

Hang in Jo.

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Ne/Neva Eva;1431014 wrote: Jo!!! I woke up thinking about you this very early morning. that kind of gives me such a warm feeling hope they were happy or hopeful thoughts!!

Ne/Neva Eva;1431014 wrote:
Sorry you're feeling discombobulated. Everything you've written is reasonable and rational. (That in itself was a bit of a new experience for me. Not that I am not a relatively reasonable and rational person. But booze made me jumpy. Even in my thought process, and even when I wasn't drunk. Does that make sense? I guess what I'm trying to say is that addiction doesn't begin and end with picking up the bottle. That kind of slavery is a 24/7 affair.)

me sounding reasonable AND rational??? something must be going terribly wrong up there!!! :H
i was thinking about what you once wrote about when you were spending christmas with your family and your father was so amazed that all the drama had gone.
i feel i'm getting rid of remains of drama, by owning what i'm experiencing. there's definitely so much more than only physical process. the texts with the psychosomatic approach made a lot of stuff clearer to me.

Ne/Neva Eva;1431014 wrote:
And if we continue the chemo analogy, and you think about what it's like for that kind of patient to finally finish treatment, having met the goal, imagine what that's like...It's exhausting fighting for your life. And then you wake up and don't have that specific goal anymore. You go from "Let me just get through this day. Just this day!" to "well, what the fuck now???"

The rest will come, with enough rest. But there are a couple of things that may make or break how well the whole adjustment goes that you might want to watch out for. Many (most!?) people think that once the deal is done the process is over. It isn't. Reaching out to people (here) who get what you're going through--or finding some outlet and support for all that stuff in your mind is a good idea. Lack of that is not a good thing, in general. (Studies show this. Repeatedly.)

I also think there is a tendency for a lot of us to try to get "healthy" all at once. I remember one woman who was doing colonics and epsom salt baths and increased her supplements and was trying to eat really well and exercise and, and, and... She couldn't understand why she had a skin rash, and was totally stressed and strung out when she was doing everything "right". Doing everything right isn't sustainable and it isn't necessary. You know? (I remind myself of this on a regular basis, when I beat myself up for not exercising, or eating an entire family-size bag of MnMs in a matter of days...Whatever, Ne! To borrow from that recovery program, Progress, not perfection.)

it's not like i've gone on a complete health trip. i still smoke, drink coffee, sometimes cola is nice. i guess i'll just eat anything i don't feel disgusted with. which isn't much. the teas are quite all right though. and i'm drinking so much of it cause i'm not really into anything else yet, it's good to change flavors (ginger tea, lemon water, milk thistle tea, green tea, sleepy time tea
i just hope to be feeling better physically, so i have some energy to go and do stuff, like going to my studio again. and doing yoga or going for a run.

i found it difficult to post over here, cause i was afraid of disappointing people...
Ne/Neva Eva;1431014 wrote:
You'll draw again and better than ever. I asked Lowcountryman (who was a dear friend and got sober when I was still really struggling) if he thought he lost his creative juice after he quit drinking. He was a musician. He told me he connected with his guitar in a way that he had never been able to before. That makes sense, doesn't it? Because it is a whole New World.

I really wish I had it in me to learn about the visual arts. I'd like to 'see' and be able to portray that beast that was wrapped around the cells in my brain.
i think i'll be a different artist, but i don't see how i couldn't benefit from sobriety. i've been feeding myself excuses like "so many great artists were drunks and addicts", but it never really worked for me. it'll take time to find myself in that again, but i'll get there, and it'll be better and more real (not escaping or diverting the tension anymore by drinking drinking drinking as much as drawing) and more intense.
only thing that worries me a bit sometimes is the leveling out of highs and lows by baclofen. but i think it's too early to worry about that.

and when i'm making AL drawings and like them, i'll show them to you.

Ne/Neva Eva;1431014 wrote:
Alrighty, I'm off to challenge this day! (That's what my days are like right now. A challenge. ugh.) I think I'll use Stuck's thread to spill all my beans. If I can figure out where I have 15 minutes for that!

xo Jo.
:l

you go girl! still those neighborhood intrigues? i'll keep an eye out for updates in Stuck's thread. :h

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Ne/Neva Eva;1431042 wrote: :H No? I'm pretty sure this next part of your post indicates you don't drink against your will anymore:
actually i was at the store this week and put a bottle of beer in my basket to try again. i think if i'd only like it again, i'd go back to drinking. but this sounds kind of funny right?
by the way, i put that beer back in the rack again after walking around with it for a minute. i thought who the hell am i kidding here?!

Ne/Neva Eva;1431042 wrote:
I wouldn't stay at a dose that makes me suffer with things that I can't control, after having tried to manage them. (Somnolence doesn't really count. Not yet anyway. That's just a fact of life for a little while...Sorry.) 10mg makes a difference. And going down (post-switch) is VERY different than going up. Two totally different experiences. It is really weird.

thanks Ne. maybe i could just try half a pill less today (=12.5mg less) and see how it goes...
though i'm a little scared about that. that 12.5mg for me was the difference between binging and going AF...

[Xadrian]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Hippyman;1431077 wrote: What about long term use of baclofen. You just can not stay on it for the rest of your life, or can you? Bac helped me stop but now I'm taking Antabuse to make sure I don't start again! I look forward to a day when I don't need meds to stay sober. I have started exercising and taking vitamins and mineral supps. I am starting to feel healthier...if I could just lose this beer belly! lol

It appears that you can safely use baclofen for the rest of your life. A lot of muscle patients have used it fotr decades.

About the antabuse: Thanks for the tip, I hadn't thought of it. I'm completely off baclofen now. I'm very, very scared that someday I will drink some alcohol and then the bad story begins.
Maybe I could keep some Refusal at hand in the event that I would like a drink.
By the way, I guess that would also make me sick if I would eat cake that has some alcohol in it?

[StuckinLA]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Don't see why you wouldn't stay on bac for the rest of your life. You wouldn't stop taking blood pressure medication after it lowers your blood pressure, nor would you stop taking an anti-depressant, necessarily. I understand maybe wanting to stop taking meds if you can manage without them, but things don't always work out the way we want, right? And what about antabuse? How much longer are you going to take that, Hippy? It's much harder on your liver than bac is... Sorry, not trying to jump on you, just making my point. Welcome to the thread, btw.

And Jo, don't worry about that 12.5mg! It's sooooooooo much different after the switch. It really is, and Ne's absolutely right--now that you've reached the goal there is no reason to stay at a dose that's making you miserable. When I hit the switch I got a little nervous about the numbers, too. And the whole idea of "indifference" is still this weird thing to try and wrap my brain around. Picking up a bottle is something that I can totally relate to--and believe it or not I can relate to putting it back, too.

But bac(k) to my point: the last 12.5mg made the difference between raging drunk and sober on the way up. On the way down to a maintenance dose is a whole new thing. Most folks find a comfortable maintenance dose somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4 of the switch dose. And don't worry about playing around a little to find what works for you (slowly! small changes!). I'm hoping this sounds more like encouragement than a lecture, btw.

For reference, like I've mentioned before, I've been off bac entirely for oh almost 20 days, and with the exception of two glasses of wine on Tuesday, which tasted good but didn't make my brain feel good, I'm AF for 10 days now. And I've been with old friends, in old neighborhoods, in old bars--plenty of nostalgia and triggers abound here, but I know that taking a drink won't give me any kind of pleasurable reward, only the annoying parts of a "buzz," and so I'd say I'm more actively averse than indifferent right now. Being off bac I'm sure that effect will work its way out of my system over the next few months, but I'm saying all of this to hopefully put your worries to rest--you're not going to lose the switch unless you work at it, and certainly not in the short term.

Much love and many hugs, Jo! (And Ne, hugs for you too.)

:l:l:l

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

well, i've taken half a pill (= 12.5mg) less today. no desire to try booze yet, so lets see how this will work out. hopefully it'll make a difference in the headache department. last night in bed felt like the top of my brain would explode, or i'd have a haemorrhage or something. and it's not like i've never had bad headaches before you know, being an drunk and all

it's just that i was clinging to the very little 'definite' information i thought i had about the bac journey, stating you should stay on the switch dose for at least a month.
so thanks you lot again for helping me through this!! again, this will be different for everyone.
if necessary, i can always go back up. i've read the second time can be different.

jeez Stuck!!! so happy to hear you're doing so well!!!! :l:l

actually, last week when i felt so lousy i thought this is hell! it's like on antabus (called refusal in holland): the choice between feeling miserable on meds or feeling miserable on AL. it made me quit antabus three times and finally decide to never try that again. i thought oh my god, will i also have to stop taking baclofen to feel a bit alive again?
i always thought it would be different with baclofen. and i believed i would switch at a certain point, which has happened already. so i've got reasons to also keep faith in the other part. i'll keep you posted on that
i think the baclofen is still working intensively on my brain, and i'm recovering from that trip to the Hades, lying on the floor of the boat back home, panting and too beat to take more than small peaks over the brim of the boat to see what the world out there looks like.
allowing myself to just float for a while has given me calm again. i can just take the time to recover and i'll probably be fine.

and as said before (and not to be a smart ass. whatever works for you is fine, isn't it?!) Hippie: i think antabus is much more straining to your body than baclofen.
(okay, that must sound a little weird, coming from someone who's suffering severe migraines , bladder and other infections, and utter beatness. but i'd like to refer to the boat fantasy here )

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Xadrian;1431096 wrote: By the way, I guess that would also make me sick if I would eat cake that has some alcohol in it?

yes it would Xadrian. you'll feel your face getting uncomfortably hot and red, and you'll feel sick (not as sick as you'd feel when you'd be actually drinking, but still). it's VERY damaging to the liver and other tissues to have any alcohol when on antabus. your body basically can't process the alcohol anymore.
and please mind: it stays in your system for a long time, so you can't drink for some time after taking it. don't know how long it takes if you only have one pill. when you've taken antabus for a month or more like i did, it can take your body over a week to get rid of all the antabus (i certainly never waited that long, 'cause unfortunately, antabus doesn't fix anything in your brain and you're still as addicted as you were before)
i once started drinking too early (and straight away heavily) after quitting antabus, and i almost went into a psychosis. i got librium just in time. but before that, i was banging my head against the floor for hours. pure horror. fortunately there were friends around to look after me. otherwise i don't know how i would have made it.

[Xadrian]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Thanks for the info, Jo. I guess I just have to be afraid enough for drinking any alcohol and don't have to try the antabuse/refusal.

So far, I'm pretty amazed that I'm completely of the baclofen now and don't even have thoughts about beer (other than very scared that 1 beer might bring me back to alcoholism).
Am I really cured? Without needing the baclofen for the rest of my life?

It feels a little like swimming for the first time without floating aids.

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

man i hope it'll work out for you X...! and saying that: an experiment can never really fail, can it? it's just good to try this when you feel you want to. playing around in life and trying out.

at first i didn't really know how to respond to your going off bac, cause i'm in such a different place right now!
and i must say that remarks about how baclofen levels out you moods make me worry...

meanwhile: my migraine has gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whaaaaaa that's a relief.........
last sunday it started to travel around in the middle of my skull, yesterday it started to get diffuse. now i only have a humming in my head and a strange fuzzy feeling (fuzzy could be a completely wrong word in this context, but it'll have to do). still bladder infection and other stuff. the doctor is out because of the holidays, but if i can manage without antibiotics i'd rather do that. still pretty tired too, but i think that's also improving a bit. man i hope to be up and going again soon!!!! wrraaaaah!!

oh, and since sunday i'm on 12.5mg less than the weeks before and still no craving!
sometimes i'm thinking about trying a drink, but it's more a wanting to test it, than craving. yep Ne, i guess this must be indifference.
so strange. i'll write more about this strangeness later.

oh, and my feather filled blanket (comforter? eiderdown?) has a leak and now it's snowing inside my bedroom!

[Colin]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

joanna_d;1432077 wrote:

sometimes i'm thinking about trying a drink, but it's more a wanting to test it, than craving.

That thought is never far away from me. Does this damn stuff really and truly work for me?

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

well Colin, i know how my last beers (two weeks ago and a day now!) tasted, and i can tell you they were disgusting.

and right now, when i'm thinking about booze, there's two types of thoughts:
one is booze as how it used to be for me. i can still remember that very well, the craving, the feeling, the taste. it was the most important thing in my days.
the other is something i'm still getting used to. it's completely different now! and that's hard to wrap my mind around, unimaginable. it's just gone! evaporated! the craving, the feeling, and the taste. and much more than that.

so when i think about testing it now, it's because it takes some time to realize that this feeling of no desire to drink is real. unimaginable, but real!

this is utterly surreal, and like i said before, the past decades seem surreal now to. i feel like i'm in shifting realities or something.

[joanna_d]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

ehm.... i'm on the verge of saying "i'm sorry", but that would be projection i guess.

i'm going up to 225mg again starting tonight. i feel confident in trying that again, cause maybe my system has cooled down some. today i actually felt quite good at times, and this time it'll be better on that dose.
i'm sitting here with a beer next to me....
yesterday, after a rather depressing christmas gathering with my mother, brother, sister in law and their kids, i bought one 8.5% beer. didn't drink it, didn't feel like it in the end. but an hour ago, after a troubling sms, i suddenly craved it, opened it, and although it didn't taste that good, it was doable. got me some takeaway food and bought another one at the night shop (right now still at the first though). don't know if i can keep it at this (in the meantime i bought 4 more, so no chance of keeping it at this, as i expected).

this feels utterly sick. on the first day that i for the first time since my switch have energy again (dosed. i had a work appointment this afternoon, after that i had to lie down for half an hour, and then was ready to do stuff again! that felt kind of great), feeling quite all right at times, peaceful: i'm drinking again. knowing i'll have a teenage ninja hangover again tomorrow. fucked up!!!!
okay, totally to be expected of an alkie.

i'm confident though, not desperate. i know i'll just have to go up again, and it'll be there. this pill works, and i have proof of that already.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

just started with baclofen, a bit desperate

Hi Jo!

As usual you've given me a grin. Ninja hangover indeed.

I got drunk last week. Haven't posted about it because of time and I didn't feel like it. But here's how it played out...

I opened a bottle of wine to have a glass with dinner. Ed made dinner. (He's so great about that.) I was in a zone, doing some stuff that needed to be done.
First glass was good. Second glass was really good. Then I had a third. I haven't had that much wine since I don't know when. I drank it alone, too.

And look, I'm not saying this doesn't make me cautious or even a bit worried. It does. Sort of. And for goodness sakes, I am not suggesting other people drink. Or that drinking is good. It's not. It never is. Ever.

What I am suggesting is that I had it. It's over. Move on. I have. (I read on another thread that this idea threatens someone's concept of their own sobriety. And so it should! There aren't any examples of people on bac with a normal relationship with alcohol for a decade. Ameisen, I suppose, but I haven't heard directly from him in a while and I have no idea what his relationship with alcohol is, because last he said, he doesn't drink at all, ever. So it might be a really bad idea. Point taken. But mind you, I moved on the minute I woke up the next morning. That's all I'm saying.)

I am alone, blissfully!, today and tomorrow. Ed's out of town, family is gone, no one and nothing to be accountable to. House full of booze from all the company. It didn't cross my mind until I was writing this that this is the perfect example of what used to be my perfect day--because I could drink with impunity. Today? I made a bunch of healthy food and then curled up with my dog and a good book and read the whole damn thing. God, this is a great day. Now I'm going to finish painting my office (high-gloss mustard-yellow. Yow!) And then I'm going to...I dunno. Organize something, I think. Or read another book?

Maybe you don't have to go up? Maybe you can just sit tight and let the medicine do it's not-magic and settle into a comfortable place? It's a whole spectrum of experiences...And it's the whole tapestry that makes the full picture.
Or maybe you should go up? You know best. But don't be scared. It takes a while to get used to not drinking. And the whole point about that whole story is that maybe you'll wake up and not want to drink for another month? Or six or 18? But I'm gonna bet the obsession is gone. Lemme know what you think, will you?

xxoo