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**RedThread12** · October 14, 2012, 09:26 PM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Hi CH: Welcome to MWO. And to the incredible opportunity that baclofen MAY offer for you to come out from drinking against your will. I say may, only because I've been here for a while (4 years, this month was my bac-freedom), and I've seen what was a freakin' miracle for me is an impossible path for others.

My first question is: have you read Dr. Ameisen's book? My second question is: have you read as much as you possibly can, from 2009 forward, in the bac threads on this forum? In all things, and baclofen especially, knowledge is power. It's beyond awesome that your gp prescribed it for you. But unless he/she has gone through the protocol, it's doubtful that your physician will know as much about what to do, when, as you can discover from reading and posting here.

Dr. Ameisen's book AND these threads address, extensively, daily dosage suggestions. Baclofen has a very short half-life in the body, and MUST be taken in doses divided throughout the day in order to maintain a level amount in the bloodstream (well, unless you're LoOp, or another member or two who have done otherwise). From what you've written, it sounds as if you are already titrating up too quickly, and that you need to spread your dosage through the day. Dr. Ameisen started at 10 mg, 3x/day. But that was AFTER he had been taking higher doses for a while, with no real plan in mind. What has appeared, here on MWO, is that wherever you start - 5 mg/day, 10 mg/day, or wherever - I, personally, did what Ameisen did, 30 mg/day, divided into 3 doses - it is best to spread it out through the day; and actually, avoid taking it close to bedtime, if possible. One of the more horrid side-effects is insomnia. That particular devastation never came my way, but I had my sleeping "ducks in a row" before I started taking bac.

You don't mention if the amount you've been taking has made any difference in your craving for wine. For many people (most?), it takes a while, or a long while, to find indifference. I felt it right away, and quit drinking against my will pretty much immediately. But I'm not "normal,"

; and the bac path has proven successful for quite a few folks who faced enormous challenges with the side effects as they titrated up.

From what you've written, I would suggest that you try 5 mg, 3x/day. Or even go back to 10 mg/day, but divide into 2 doses - one in the morning, and one in the late afternoon, at whatever time is a little bit earlier than your normal wine-bottle-opening time. If you want to take 15 mg/day, take 5 in the am, 5 in the early afternoon, and 5 a little before the aforementioned critical time. Taking it all at once, at night, doesn't really make much sense. Not knocking you're doc. I'm a huge fan, just because you have a prescription. But for those of us who have been there and done that, or are there, and doing it, this seems to be the most successful approach. Especially when someone has to go to pretty high levels, reducing the dosage and taking it more frequently throughout the day seems to work best.

Baclofen saved my life. And it wasn't a huge struggle, and I have no idea why that has been true for me and not for others. And even so, if I had not had ALL of the information that I gleaned from reading, reading, reading here at MWO, I could have been in serious trouble a couple of times. I certainly don't think it is time for you to get discouraged, yet! Slow down a little, space your doses out and avoid the bedtime thing. And read, read, read. You will be amazed at the wealth of information here; and at how crucial it is to know as much as you possibly can to traverse the bac path successfully. I wish you the very, very best!

**Ne/Neva Eva** · October 15, 2012, 02:49 AM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Hi, Cooking.
Increasing by 10mg every 3 days is a pretty big jump. General guidelines are 10-20mg/week.
Drinking makes the side effects more pronounced. If you can lay off the sauce, you'll feel better. I couldn't and didn't. It still worked.

There is a protocol around here written by French doctors that has been translated. You might want to print that out, read it and take it to your GP.

Baclofen is not a short term solution for the vast majority of people. Redthread has some really good suggestions. You may find initially that you don't relate to a lot of what's been written. "Happy" is not where many of us start out on the baclofen journey. I thought I was relatively content with life, and maybe I was--so long as I could ignore that I drank wine every night until I passed out. What I know now is that the cycle of drinking and being generally miserable meant that my moments of happiness were relatively fleeting. My expectations for life were pretty low, and the happiness bar was even lower.

I am guessing that you might be in a similar situation. Bulimia and drinking alcohol when you don't actually want to probably negatively affect everything, and to do it despite having a loving family must be painful. I so get that.
Baclofen is definitely one solution. It's not easy or effortless, and it's not quick. But it gave me a life I couldn't have dreamed of. I don't drink against my will anymore, and I haven't in more than a year and a half. I hope you have the same results!

**cookinghappy** · October 15, 2012, 05:05 AM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Have been reading your replies hungrily devouring all the wisdom your experience can give me. I found them so helpful. You do feel very lost on Baclofen, and to be honest, have felt so spaced out that I couldn't even muster up the energy to post online. Today, following your advice, I've taken a morning pill but only 5 mg. Took it 4 hours ago, and can feel its effect but not as strongly as the 10 mg. How many days can it take for the effects to wear off and for me not to feel 'drugged' when I take them. I took 10mg for 4 days and felt as awful on day 4 as day one.
Thank you for renewing my hope. It was the feeling that hope was going that left me desperate. It is hard to think tho' that I may be on this for months before I lose interest in the wine.

Baclofen is playing havoc with my sleep despite the fact I take Stilnoct anyway. Having been on 20mg at night for 2 weeks, plus 10 mg in the morning for 4 days how do you suggest I play it now?

I took the 5 mg you advised this am instead of the 10 mg.
Is it a bad idea to cut down on the 20 mg tonight, and if so, to how much?
Have to admit, although you suggested it, I am hesitant to take 5 mg early evening today as I have my mother coming to stay for 4 days and don't want to be poor company or feel unable to function.
Does my sensitivity to the drug (i.e. poor tolerance) imply that I will be the sort of person who will reach the switch on a low dose? Have to say, my gp isn't keen to put me on a high one.
Thank you.

**Xadrian** · October 15, 2012, 07:52 AM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Dividing doses

Dear CookingHappy,

In my particular case, it worked best to divide the doses in 3 times (not more, not less) a day, as evenly distributed as possible (every 8 hours, 1x when you wake up, 1x eight hours after, 1x before going to bed).
Three times a day to keep the levels as steady as possible.
Not less, because the half life value of Baclofen is only 4 hours (however, the effects will last way longer).
Not more, because apparently the peak levels every 8 hours appear to trigger the switch, at least in my situation. Moreover, it's easy to accidentally skip a dose when divided over more than 3 times a day.

Typically, you start with 15 mg (3 x 5). Maximum titration up would typically be 15 mg (3x 5 mg) every 3 days after last increasement, but if you experience huge side effects, you could wait some longer.

Me myself titrated up 1 x 5 mg every day (you can check out how on "my" thread if you like) and hit the reset button at 90 mg (3x 30 mg), which is very fast and certainly not typical, if I read other peoples story.
By the way, I weighed 114 kg. and I guess you weigh slightly less, so the side effects on your body can be more severe (it's about the mg./kg of body weight)
Some people hit the switch very fast and some take way longer.

In my case, when decreasing after hitting the switch, I experienced effects due to the decrease change till 4 days after decreasing. I think the same counts for titrating up.
So regarding your question about how long it takes, I would say up to 4 days, based on my own experience.

Success and take care

**cookinghappy** · October 15, 2012, 03:28 PM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Thank you. It seems surreal that people i have never met are so willing to help me. I am touched.

**Rosanna** · October 15, 2012, 03:37 PM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Hi Cookinghappy,
I live in Belgium, too, and started using Baclofen 6 days ago. I am seeing a psychiatrist for the prescription, and he knows this medication well. I first tried Campral for 4 weeks, but it did nothing for me. So, I also feel that Baclofen is my last hope. Of course I am doing psychotherapy with the medication, but therapy alone has never helped me. I am 42-years-old woman and my drinking pattern has been for years to drink 2-3 bottles of wine and pass out on the sofa. Not every night, luckily, but 2 times a week. And I am also a wife and a mother, so this is not a good pattern to myself and not to my family.
I really want to stop drinking. I really am trying. But I feel strongly, that I need some medical help for it, even I do not like the medication in general.
I have read lot of articles on Baclofen, and just ordered Ameisen's book. Baclofen is known by some good psychiatrists in Belgium, and with the prescription it costs nearly nothing. So, I really want to give it a try.
But as you, I have felt totally 'drugged' with Baclofen for my first days. Very unreal feeling, out of myself, and weirdly hungry, too (which is a pity, because with Campral I lost weight!). I have had difficulties to understand what others are saying, and I have had difficulties to remember things. But today, on my 6th day, I am feeling better. Only very tired.
My psychiatrist told me to take only 5mg 3 times a day for one week. And then the next week 10 mg 3 times a day. I just feel right now that I would like to still continue on this minimal dose, as it is affecting me very strongly. Don't know what to do, I will probably call my psychiatrist. And anyway, will have an appointment with him in 10 days.
So, I do not feel very fit, but at least I do not miss my wine at the moment. I hope it stays like that. Last time I drank one week ago. I am giving time for this experience, as I do not want to survive alone in my 'wine land'.
Keep on posting how you feel, I would recommend you to check the dose, and not to take it too much too quickly.
Courage!

**cookinghappy** · October 15, 2012, 04:05 PM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Thank you all so much, and, rosanna. I hope it goes well for you too. I felt close to you when you describe what you are feeling. If you want to talk some more we could as we both live in Belgium. Is your therapist good?
i know i must stop drinking, for my well-being and for the family i love. It's really a question of how to fill the emptiness of wine free evenings and how to build up a sense of pride when i don't drink. It's hard to keep on track if you don't build up a sense of pride when you achieve.

I am realising that i have expected an overnight miracle. Yet, i didn't become hooked on wine overnight... These side effects are so hard. I think i will step my dosage down and build up slowly. Keep in touch.

**Rosanna** · October 16, 2012, 01:06 AM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Good morning Cookinghappy!
Thank you for you reply, and yes, it would be nice to talk more as we both live in Belgium. Let's see what we can do!
But first, I have to pull back my positive feeling about Baclofen. This morning I woke up with a feeling that I can not breath very well, my heart felt so slow. Horrible pain in my shoulders, my ankles are stiff (could barely walk down the stairs....) and most of all, my back is hurting very much (shouldn't be the kidneys, as I have been drinking lot of water...and NO alcohol). Well, this is not normal anymore, surely. I will call my psychiatrist this morning. I am quite sure he tells me to stop taking Baclofen, and that makes me scared. How am I going to survive if there is no medication helping me. Sigh. Maybe it is just time to learn to cope with myself, with the help of the psychotherapy I restarted few weeks ago. It is the first time in my life that I really want to say goodbye to my wine-friend, so that makes the situation a bit better. The only problem being that this 'friend' is often much stronger than I am. Not a funny friend at all.
I will let you know what my doctor says.
Talk to you soon, have a good Tuesday! Hugs, Rosanna

**Ne/Neva Eva** · October 16, 2012, 02:42 AM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Morning (for me) ladies! (I'm on the east coast of the U.S. I guess technically it's the middle of the night, but I can't sleep so I'm up!)

Bac is a wonder drug in many ways, but it's not an easy one for everyone. I had a pretty rough experience, particularly at the low doses. I'm really grateful that I pushed through that period of time. I think that "thought control" of some sort really helps. Meditation or prayer or imagery.

I also think that increasing slowly and steadily is the key. There are several different protocols to follow, but generally it just takes some time to get used to it. So take it easy! I hope you can be gentle with yourselves, too. This is a tough battle, but one that is well worth fighting. Regardless of how you get here, to comfortable and relatively serene sobriety. For me it was bac, and it was the last resort, my final hope, but I know now that it is really about just continuing to treat the disease with all the tools you can muster. It's a tough one to recover from. But it absolutely can be done and it is absolutely worth the effort.

:l to you both!

Ne

**cookinghappy** · October 16, 2012, 09:36 AM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Thanks Neva Eva. I have gone down to 5mg, and am feeling much better today. Encouraged by what you say about the low doses being harder. I will see how I go over the next few days. If I'm not struck by the desire to stop drinking, do you advise me to try stopping from time to time and see how it goes? I did manage not to drink last Thursday night, but was thinking about it the whole time. Do you have any idea of a minimum dosage I should be on in order to have the odds of success in my favour?
Rosanna -worrying. Please use other people's encouragement of me to help and advise you. What did you doctor say? Let me know.

**Ne/Neva Eva** · October 17, 2012, 04:41 AM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Morning, again!
Boy, I can't help but be a little bit jealous of you guys in those progressive European countries. I swear, it almost seems worth it to live in places that don't get a lot of sunshine but have amazing social programs and a remarkable quality of life. But the Netherlands and Belgium...Those places too.

Cooking, from what you've I can't really tell what you're taking or when. The key is just to keep it relatively steady. It's unlikely that you won't feel it in some way. You know? You're treating a chemical imbalance with a chemical remedy and it's likely to feel a bit uncomfortable. (I used to think of it as chemo for drunkenness. It sucks, but once I was done, I would be done. Which is how it worked out for me.)

If you take too much, and you feel like you need to back off a little bit, then back off a very little bit. But keep in mind that if you continue to do that it will take that much longer to get any results. It's a fine balance, and one that each of us has to figure out. (EDIT: Please don't start and stop taking it. You absolutely have to take it every day once you have been on it a little while. It's not safe to suddenly stop. That's true for most medications, you know?)

Rosanna's experience is also not unusual. Everything is going along fine and then something happens. It's hard to say what, but the result can be uncomfortable enough to think you ought to quit trying. I didn't, and I will be eternally grateful that I stuck with it. I hope you can find the results that I did!

Part of it, of course, is just making the decision and then developing a plan and then sticking with it through all of the ups and downs and all-arounds. It's not rocket science, but it ain't easy to do either. Nothing truly life-altering is, though.

How did the visit to the doctor go, Rosanna?

Gotta run start my day! Hang in there sisters!

**Rosanna** · October 17, 2012, 05:59 AM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Hello ladies,
just a short message to update my situation. I described my bad symptoms to my psychiatrist, and he told me to stop taking baclofen immediately. I had horrible (I mean horrible!) pain in my ankles, I couldn't almost walk yesterday. I still have the pain and swollenness today. Also my hips and shoulders are sore, slight pain in fingers, too. I could support secondary effects, but not if I can not walk and that I am almost crying for the pain! And it is surely coming from Baclofen, because with Campral (I took it small amount for 4 weeks) I had no physical problems, and I haven't drank alcohol in 8 days.
Well, I will see how to proceed. Now I just wish I will get rid of this horrible pain! I know I am not going to drink to get rid of the pain...that would only make the situation worse.
I feel that my experiences with Campral (which reduced my drinking, but did not totally stop it) and now Baclofen have made me think, that I might as well concentrate on psychotherapy alone. Maybe something else (medication), for bad days, difficult situations, but I will see that with my psychiatrist next week. Today I have a good day, and I can stay without drinking. But I am afraid that it does not last and I do not survive this battle all alone.
Sorry, I do not have time to write more just now, but I will get back to you. I am really happy to all of you who have found help from Baclofen or other medications, and who have had secondary effects which are somehow bearable. It was not like that in my case. Courage for you ladies, and all the others in this big battle! There must be a way out, surely there is one!
ps. And, yes, today I am happy living in Belgium (has not always been like that, as I am not a Belgian)! I have found great support for my problems. But main key for that is that I finally approached a hospital which is specialised in alcoholism. The level of the knowledge is great amongst the staff, and the therapy is also concentrating on the drinking behaviour (not too gentle, but enough direct). That's great for me. I used to see some generalists or 'normal' psychotherapists before, and I tried to speak about my drinking problems, but they did not understand me as they did not have the knowledge about the specific aspects of this disease. So, my advise is, if you can, keep on looking for good treatment. And I am sooo grateful that the health care is well reimbursed in Belgium, it definitely should be like that everywhere. I am very grateful.

**gratitude** · October 17, 2012, 03:07 PM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

rosanna,
if your doctor is convinced that your reaction
is from the baclofen and you are no longer going that route perhaps you should consider the sinclair method. i believe that " ukblonde" and others have found their way out of this madness with this approach. plenty of info on these boards about it. give it a shot... or at least research it. take care. grat.

**Ne/Neva Eva** · October 19, 2012, 04:39 AM

Baclofen -feel as if my hopes are dissappearing. Should i carry on?

Hey, Rosanna.
I'm really sorry that you had such an awful experience. I am very glad, though, that you are using other tools and ideas to help you combat this awful "friend". I really, really value my therapist, and am so thankful I have that as part of my toolbox. She's invaluable. And when I am absolutely convinced that it does nothing for me, that I am wasting my time (and hers) or that it's so uncomfortable I don't want to do it anymore, THAT is when it's the most valuable. I hope you have the same results. Like everything else, though, I find that it takes some work.

As Gratitude pointed out, there are several more options in terms of medication that may help. I'm sure that you can explore those with your pdoc (psychiatrist.)

Just out of curiosity, how long were you on bac and did you increase your dose before you started to feel really awful? And did your psychiatrist suggest you stop it immediately rather than taper down?

Are you feeling better?

Cookinghappy, how are you?

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