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Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

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    #46
    Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

    Congrats Mary! That's great news.

    I think the vast majority of us rush back down that bac ladder the minute we feel like the goal has been reached. I think I went from 320mg to about 100mg in about a minute and a half. Of course, then I went back up again promptly. I also drank again soon afterward. My husband was still drinking alcoholically at the time and it was easy enough (ha!) to have a beer or two with him in the evenings. While I don't think I have had an "alcoholic" drink since indifference, just drinking relatively regularly freaked me out and I quit for 30 days. The 30 days turned into many more, because by the time it was up, I realized I didn't care.

    I also had a whole range of emotions. What I remember most clearly is being happy and carefree and pretty much gung-ho. But the reality was a lot more tumultuous than that. My mood even depended on the time of day, honestly. At one point I decided to participate here only in the mornings, because I usually woke up (pre-dawn) cheery and eager but by the end of the day, I was often overwhelmed, unsure and fearful about everything going back to being hellish. I think I was probably just exhausted, you know? 4 hours of sleep and very full days will do that...

    It wasn't just the time of day, though. That summer was a period of euphoria interspersed with general malaise. I had so much TIME. Even now, when I'm busy all is well. When I'm not? oy vey. I need projects and things-to-do-lists to be happy apparently. And also some short term-ish goals. I can't just lay one brick on top of another. How boring is that? Neither can I focus on the cathedral when I've just started the foundation.

    I just planted a garden. I have some master gardeners who freely offer advice, which is wonderful. I had to stop asking/listening, though. They keep encouraging me to plant all this stuff that will come to fruition years from now. pffffft. Dude, I want it big, and pretty, Right Now. Or at the very least by the end of the summer. I couldn't care less if the tree I just planted will die in ten years, or if they consider it a 'scrub' tree. It has pretty leaves and flowers and it grows more than a foot a year! I'll leave the acorn planting to someone who has the time and patience to wait for the oak.

    There's a great article that I think I posted in the General Discussion area (a long time ago) about the mind of the person who has ADD. I won't digress into all of it, but the gist is that there is benefit to seeking out instant gratification, the quick high, the new challenge. Getting those dopamine receptors fired up in whatever positive way possible is important! And can be hugely beneficial, not just to stay off of the booze (though that is a big benefit) but also for success. It's been nice to accept that I will never be the kind of chick who plants acorns, you know? Or stores them away for the cold hard winter.

    Btw, I know quite a few people who jumped around in terms of dosage after the fact. It's probably a good idea to stay mindful that one consistent dose is probably best (and what the docs would recommend, should they ever get around to recommending anything). But sometimes that just doesn't cut it, and you have to do what you have to do. EDIT: I don't want to be a hypocrite, or post that as though I'm suggesting that going up and down dramatically is something I think is a good idea. Good God, no. Please don't do that. I've seen some people who get seriously high and/or depressed doing that. This IS actually neuroscience, and brain chemistry is not to be trifled with. At least not my brain chemistry, anyway. Sorry for the clarification, but wanted to be...clear.

    Hope the job interview went well! I would imagine a new job is certainly a ripe opportunity for dopamine rushes. If not, I highly recommend sex.

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      #47
      Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

      Neva -I continue to learn something everyday reading these posts. The apparent honesty is helpful beyond measurement. A snip-it of your post (below), is almost an exact replica of what I am experiencing now:

      "What I remember most clearly is being happy and carefree and pretty much gung-ho. But the reality was a lot more tumultuous than that. My mood even depended on the time of day, honestly. At one point I decided to participate here only in the mornings, because I usually woke up (pre-dawn) cheery and eager but by the end of the day, I was often overwhelmed, unsure and fearful about everything going back to being hellish. I think I was probably just exhausted, you know? 4 hours of sleep and very full days will do that..."

      I only got about 3 hours sleep last night, and yet, I was ready to take on the day early this morning. I'm still at work now, feeling that overwhelming fear and being just overwhelmed in general.

      Thanks for the post.

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        #48
        Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

        Hey Wolf,

        As you continue on, you'll figure out which hours of the day are OK and which aren't. It's just part of the process. And you'll manage to do more than you could've in a whole day in those hours. And then you'll (hopefully) let yourself off the hook for the hours that you aren't so good.

        Keep in mind, though, what Ne would say: you are curing yourself of an incurable disease. You are right now doing what most of the world believes is impossible. :l

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          #49
          Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

          StuckinLA;1503078 wrote: Hey Wolf,

          As you continue on, you'll figure out which hours of the day are OK and which aren't. It's just part of the process. And you'll manage to do more than you could've in a whole day in those hours. And then you'll (hopefully) let yourself off the hook for the hours that you aren't so good.

          Keep in mind, though, what Ne would say: you are curing yourself of an incurable disease. You are right now doing what most of the world believes is impossible. :l
          Hey Stuck - just damn..I needed to read your post. I "NEEDED" to read what both you and Neva wrote. I think I will go post on my "I need help" thread. And, I am going to move on up (a little more slowly) on the BAC. This late evening craving damn near sent me backwards -it hit me blindsided. Tonight, I chose to visit MWO and try to calm down. I did not and will not pick up a drink tonight.

          Thank you both.

          Comment


            #50
            Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

            hi Mary, congrats!!

            next to the obvious se's that go with bac, for me the whole process of curing myself and getting aquainted to being free of al has had a massive effect on, well, every aspect of my life & system. it's a process. i'm still feeling more and more alive and free from within.

            the se's keep on diminishing in my case (now 5 months post switch), only somnolence remains (which doesn't equal numbness).
            and everytime i go down on bac (finding my maintenance dose) i have to rebalance some.

            :l

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              #51
              Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

              Hi Mary

              Congratulations on your success! That's awesome. I'm hoping I've reached my switch at 210. didn't drink for a week, then struggled to drink 1 1/2 glasses of wine last nigh. Didn't actually enjoy it or like the taste.
              Keep up the good work.

              Cheers
              Sticky

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                #52
                Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

                Thank you all for your feedback and kind thoughts.

                I just planted a garden. I have some master gardeners who freely offer advice, which is wonderful. I had to stop asking/listening, though. They keep encouraging me to plant all this stuff that will come to fruition years from now. pffffft. Dude, I want it big, and pretty, Right Now. Or at the very least by the end of the summer. I couldn't care less if the tree I just planted will die in ten years, or if they consider it a 'scrub' tree. It has pretty leaves and flowers and it grows more than a foot a year! I'll leave the acorn planting to someone who has the time and patience to wait for the oak.
                I so agree with you Ne! I have a yard with "seemingly" endless flower beds. It was the reason we fell in love with the house but the gardening never stops. My advice, plant the beautiful annuals for the instant effect that you can enjoy now AND mix in perennial plants that come up year after year (if your lucky). You get the instant satisfaction this year along with long term achievement of building a garden that keeps giving. Just don't forget where the perennial plants are and hastily pull them up as weeds the next spring I do that every year.

                I am depressed. I am sure it is the Bac. The last three days I bumped up to 240 to edge away nagging AL thoughts. At the same time I am dealing with depression that is new to me. It has been a part of the equation for awhile as I have been going up. I feel like I want to stay up here as long as I can so I can make sure it "sticks" but at the same time, I want to feel better, so I have thoughts of going down.

                The depression is really bizarre. I know things are not really that bad. I should be glad of my progress. I will get a job. We are financially OK...

                Then I think, I will never feel normal again, I will be lucky if I get a job at half my pay, my husband could lose his job, etc.

                I know this is the depression speaking and I know it is related to Baclofen. At this point, it is my most pronounced SE. I know not everyone gets this particular SE but it also seems a large group has gone through this same issue.

                I also have some of the weight issues. My weight gain is directly related to eating more :H It has not been that bad because I have been forcing myself to exercise at a good clip (average 6-7 classes a week). Most of this classes are yoga sculpt...mixture of yoga, weights, and cardio bursts. While I have gained some pounds I know where the fat ones are because I have good muscle tone. I know, when I stop eating, I will be glad I worked hard at the exercise. I force myself to go to exercise, even when I feel down and depressed, and I am always glad I went.

                I mention this point because I am trying to convince myself to keep pushing through and recognize that the short term problems with HDB (as much as they suck!) are helping me build strength to deal with a very long term problem. I have heard others say these types of effects subside over time and slowly going down will help. I rely on these stories to provide me long term motivation.

                I have had pink cloud moments in other stints of AF days but the clouds seem grey at the moment. I would love to get the pink clouds I had before when I quit for awhile without medication but then I remind myself they never lasted and I was back to the booze.

                If I could have quit without medicine I would have done it years ago. So this is my story for now...

                Comment


                  #53
                  Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

                  Wow, there are a lot of people here who like toiling in the hot sun. It's no wonder you are depressed.

                  Mary, it sounds to me like baclofen has done what is required of it, it is now up to you to take full advantage of it. Baclofen doesn't actually stop you drinking, it gives you the choice. It sounds like you are indifferent, but habit is maintaining your drinking, and making you think that going higher will help. It probably will, but now that it is bringing depression into the mix, is it worth it?

                  You may be surprised at how simple it now is to stop, even for a little while, and that may well lift you out of your depressive funk. Congratulations for getting this far!

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                    #54
                    Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

                    When you spend everyday drinking, sobering up and sleeping you have no time to notice depression. Baclofen might just be providing the extended sober time in which to notice an underlying depression.

                    In retrospect I was probably clinically depressed from age twelve until I was treated with citalopram by a psychiatrist. All that time I thought everybody was like me and depression was just something for neurotic wimps. If the depression stays around for an extended period consider anti-depressants.

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                      #55
                      Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

                      Colin-

                      I do wonder if there is an underlying issue. I have been on ADs to help with Sleep (calm me down). They only seemed to work when I wasn't drinking- and that didn't usually last long :H

                      I was really down this past weekend when I wrote the Post. The next day, all I wanted to do was lay in bed and watch TV. I did force myself to do other things so I was not completely unproductive. Finally, I took my temperature and I had a fever of 100F. What a relief! i was just sick and feeling down.

                      I still have the depression but not like those few days. I will watch it and I may call in an AD for temporary use.

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

                        MaryGoRound;1505481 wrote: Colin-

                        ...The next day, all I wanted to do was lay in bed and watch TV. ...
                        Wow, Mary, you really have to be depressed to watch daytime tv

                        I used to get mired in depression. I got some relief from ADs but what really works for me is regular cardio. Atleast a half hour a day, at least 5 days a week, at least 80% of maximum heart rate. Even more if I'm feeling the funk.

                        I confess I haven't scrolled back to see how much cardio you are doing...apologies if you are already doing this...by the way, some years ago I was pushing a book called Spark by Dr John Ratey on this forum. Its worth reading if you want a scientific basis for how much exercise helps mental health and well-being.

                        EDIT: I read back some and am reminded that you are doing yoga...but are you getting good heart thumping cardio?
                        With profound appreciation to Dr Olivier Ameisen for his brilliant insight and courageous determination

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                          #57
                          Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

                          Update from my end. I am at 210mg and still indifferent. I did have few drinks once last week but it was from strict habit. I almost had to force it down. Continuing to try for a period of strict abstinence.

                          I did have an interesting experience on Friday. I had a phone interview that went extremely well. Normally when something "good" happens I need something to get me back. I get uncomfortably "anxious" (not sure if that is the right word) when good things happen. I never realized it in quite this way before. I use AL to regulate my emotions and that means bringing me out of a cloud. So when this interview was over I heard part of me saying this is a good time for a drink. In times past, a good event requires both a "reward" and a "relief." I know the reward part is BS but I am also now understanding I don't need the relief either. In other words, I did not get uncomfortably high and did not need to take an edge off the situation.

                          This is part of the equation that makes baclofen work for me. It evens me out. I have complained about losing my zest and even having downright depressed days but I think part of the reason it works is it narrows the window of emotions. I definitely want to be able to open that window up wider over time but, for now, if I have operate in a narrower band of emotions to get past the rough patch of early sobriety, it will be worth it in the long run.

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                            #58
                            Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

                            MaryGoRound;1507915 wrote:
                            I did have an interesting experience on Friday. I had a phone interview that went extremely well. Normally when something "good" happens I need something to get me back. I get uncomfortably "anxious" (not sure if that is the right word) when good things happen. I never realized it in quite this way before. I use AL to regulate my emotions and that means bringing me out of a cloud. So when this interview was over I heard part of me saying this is a good time for a drink. In times past, a good event requires both a "reward" and a "relief." I know the reward part is BS but I am also now understanding I don't need the relief either. In other words, I did not get uncomfortably high and did not need to take an edge off the situation.
                            In retrospect I'm beginning to believe that any excuse for a drink is enough to have one. Any kind of mood change, good, bad or sideways, is as good an excuse as any for a dedicated drinker.

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                              #59
                              Has Balcafen Stopped thecMaryGoRound of Drinking?

                              Colin;1507943 wrote: In retrospect I'm beginning to believe that any excuse for a drink is enough to have one. Any kind of mood change, good, bad or sideways, is as good an excuse as any for a dedicated drinker.
                              I'll second that. Cheers.

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