No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

[Blue79]

Whats going on?

This forum seems full of baclofen matters.

I noticed the sinclair method forum looks dead.

Im after switching from the useless Nodict naltrexone product to a version of Naltima just 10 days ago. I hope 2013 will be a good year for me. I had a reversal in 2012 after an excellent 2011 on a Nal medication where i had great progress, I cant get that product imported any more it was a powder in a pill.

I nearly ran someone over on Bac so I stopped taking that substance.

[Heavy Fuel]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

It's the holidays. The TSM forum dies during that time and this section of MWO is very baclofen centric.

My experience with naltrexone has been very favorable. The nodict works just as well if one crunches it into 2-3 pieces with their teeth.

For me the really important things with TSM were:

the Golden Rule must be followed always. (dose one hour before drinking)
keep the log, which is hard when one is intoxicated. (I kept beer tops and measured bottles)
Using an alcohol calculator (high octane whiskey isn't a glass of wine and beers aren't all the same!)
PATIENCE
And be safe. If I were spiking or when I was first starting, I wouldn't drink outside my home.

Good luck!

[YouKayBee]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

Yep it's fairly quiet on there because it's such a specific, niche forum - on here you have people trying all sorts of other methods too.

I had bad experiences with Bac and Naltrexone/TSM suits me a lot better.

[joethelion]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

We (both my wife and I) are using both methods; bac and TSM, and are doing great after very tough times (especially my wife). I believe they both help in their own ways. Bac helps a lot with the momentary cravings; whereas TSM cures slowly, while helping with the binges too.

Btw lately I had an interesting experience; I started skipping nal when I think I would be drinking a lot (because I found out it really causes me the worst hangovers ever); which probably wasn`t the best idea; because it seems the doubling of opioid receptors while using nal is true. My cravings came back, although I still have control. But this also shows that it really works.

[Diver]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

Joe,
I'm glad to hear that both you and your wife are still doing great! I used to follow your thread on the TSM site. I have had some success with TSM, however I am not where I need to be. I just started a thread here and plan to start Bac today and continue to follow TSM.

Any pointers you could share would be appreciated.

Diver

[YouKayBee]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

joethelion;1439945 wrote: We (both my wife and I) are using both methods; bac and TSM, and are doing great after very tough times (especially my wife). I believe they both help in their own ways. Bac helps a lot with the momentary cravings; whereas TSM cures slowly, while helping with the binges too.

Btw lately I had an interesting experience; I started skipping nal when I think I would be drinking a lot (because I found out it really causes me the worst hangovers ever); which probably wasn`t the best idea; because it seems the doubling of opioid receptors while using nal is true. My cravings came back, although I still have control. But this also shows that it really works.

Dr Eskapa in his book is quite clear, if you drink without using Nal you will go backwards and become readdicted.

I was once told by a psychotherapist that alcoholics increase their addictive receptors each time they drink, which is how the addiction gets worse, and how they then return to the same levels of drinking after a period of abstenance (ie the receptor increase is permanent).

I think not taking nal because you want/know you are going to drink a lot is not going to help you, it is risking reversing the process. Fear of the nalover can be used an an incentive not to drink so much, or drink at all. That's how it worked for me anyway and recently I've noticed the nalover has gotten better, but then again the times I drink more than 1 or 2 medium glasses of wine are becoming extremely rare. Alcohol really holds little interest for me now and even the thought of the taste of it turns me off.

Just wanted to add that reading your post JTL has struck fear and frustration into my heart for you, please don't drink without the nal. The book is quite clear on this.

[joethelion]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

Ukblonde; I understand the risk and that`s why I shared it here. Thank you for your concern

It is bad that most of the times, the reasons which made us addicted to alcohol in the first place are still there. I hope scientists will work on something to ease the side effects of bac as soon as possible, so that we can make use of its anxiolytic effect more.

[martye]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

I take Naltrexone and am not using the sinclair method. Just no booze seem to be going well.

Any questions on it feel free to ask.

[Blue79]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

martye;1441557 wrote: I take Naltrexone and am not using the sinclair method. Just no booze seem to be going well.

Any questions on it feel free to ask.

I managed to do an approach like this for 60 days on campral. I had a nice bit of fear at the time. Keep it up.

[joethelion]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

Martye; the real important thing is it works for you of course, but honestly we, those who are on the TSM side of naltrexone, don`t understand why nal by itself would help with abstinence (in the beginning). What I know about naltrexone, in a nutshell, is that it makes the brain `unlearn` alcoholism, by taking out the pleasure it gets from alcohol every time a person drinks alcohol. We don`t see how it would work while not drinking. In fact allegedly it even performs worse than with placebo according to several studies if the aim is immediate abstinence. And the reason TSM is not as widely spread as it should have been is because you can not write `should be taken before DRINKING` on the instructions. At least this is what the TSM supporters are told.

I`m of course not sure by 100%, but would like to understand the point of view of those who take nal out of TSM.

[martye]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

Nal lowers my cravings for the booze ..... massivily! Been AF for 7 days and I put that down to will power and naltrexone. I have never seen the point of having your addiction to get over and addiction. The idea just seems SO strange to me. Like having nicitone to get over nicotine.

What ever works for everyone although Naltrexone was designed to stop cravings for drinking, not to drink. I would be so happy to do the sinclair method as that would mean I could still drink lol

[martye]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

Naltrexone blocks the effects of drugs known as opioids. It competes with these drugs
for opioid receptors in the brain. While the precise mechanism of action for the
medication’s effect in alcohol treatment is unknown, there are three kinds of effects.
First, naltrexone can reduce craving, which is the urge or desire to drink. Second,
naltrexone helps patients remain abstinent. Third, naltrexone may interfere with the
tendency to want to drink more if a recovering patient has a drink.

[Otter]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

joethelion;1442050 wrote: Martye; the real important thing is it works for you of course, but honestly we, those who are on the TSM side of naltrexone, don`t understand why nal by itself would help with abstinence (in the beginning). What I know about naltrexone, in a nutshell, is that it makes the brain `unlearn` alcoholism, by taking out the pleasure it gets from alcohol every time a person drinks alcohol. We don`t see how it would work while not drinking. In fact allegedly it even performs worse than with placebo according to several studies if the aim is immediate abstinence. And the reason TSM is not as widely spread as it should have been is because you can not write `should be taken before DRINKING` on the instructions. At least this is what the TSM supporters are told.

I`m of course not sure by 100%, but would like to understand the point of view of those who take nal out of TSM.

It appears from this article that Naltrexone is dangerous for he liver. The study showing it was worse than placebo confirmed that it has to be taken in conjunction with continued drinking.

Naltrexone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My take on all this is that neither Naltrexone or Baclofen are cures as such. The "cure" comes when one allows the brain to recover from the corrosive effects of alcohol, particularly on neurotransmission, ie, the highly sensitive nerves in the brain which are stripped of myelin by alcohol. It appears that the brain does recover with time.

Both Naltrexone and Baclofen allow for a reduction of drinking, however, there is the proviso that you have to keep drinking, otherwise Naltrexone does not work and may trigger a severe relapse if you stop taking it (stop drinking also in TSM). Also it is dangerous for the liver.

Baclofen, on the other hand, is safe for the liver since it is eliminated by the kidneys and it can be used without continued drinking or with and results in abstinence, if so desired.

There is a phenomenon associated with Naltrexone and antagonists called "up regulating" in that the brain, when denied a "high" because receptors are blocked, creates new receptors so taking Naltrexone to block receptors just makes others grow. I personally don't like the sound of it but if it works better than Bac for some, then go for it.

[Hippyman]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

Otter;1442632 wrote: It appears from this article that Naltrexone is dangerous for he liver. The study showing it was worse than placebo confirmed that it has to be taken in conjunction with continued drinking.

Naltrexone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My take on all this is that neither Naltrexone or Baclofen are cures as such. The "cure" comes when one allows the brain to recover from the corrosive effects of alcohol, particularly on neurotransmission, ie, the highly sensitive nerves in the brain which are stripped of myelin by alcohol. It appears that the brain does recover with time.

Both Naltrexone and Baclofen allow for a reduction of drinking, however, there is the proviso that you have to keep drinking, otherwise Naltrexone does not work and may trigger a severe relapse if you stop taking it (stop drinking also in TSM). Also it is dangerous for the liver.

Baclofen, on the other hand, is safe for the liver since it is eliminated by the kidneys and it can be used without continued drinking or with and results in abstinence, if so desired.

There is a phenomenon associated with Naltrexone and antagonists called "up regulating" in that the brain, when denied a "high" because receptors are blocked, creates new receptors so taking Naltrexone to block receptors just makes others grow. I personally don't like the sound of it but if it works better than Bac for some, then go for it.

That's my concern about taking Naltrexone. I took it back several years ago and noticed a decrease in my compulsion to drink but I had concerns for my Liver health.

[martye]

No Naltrexone Discussions - Lets Talk

A review of the literature indicates that even when given at much higher doses than are needed for treating heroin or alcohol abusers, there is no evidence that NTX causes clinically significant liver disease or exacerbates, even at high doses, serious pre-existing liver disease