What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

[lordwizzledonk]

This took f---o---r---e---v---e---r. But I know my meds are real ntx (50s). And somehow my liver isn't totally screwed despite being a very heavy drinker for many years, then finally realising I was addicted & being on about 180 units a week avg for years after that, whilst of course being refused any medicine whatsoever because such an idea doesn't line the pockets of big pharma & keep the God squad happy.

I will be following the standard rules for TSM whilst telling the various psychs etc that I'm always blockaded bla bla bla. I also understand the logic of why TSM > constant blockade if Dr Sinclair's findings are correct, which I believe them to be - what with being a scientific method advocate + an alcoholic; I ought to be able to analyse TSM fairly well! But, yesterday, I had just 3 units before bed, having had ntx a few hours earlier, & felt kind of sad before drifting off to sleep. It seemed a profound sadness at the time but this morning I had forgotten about it. Not an "I'm pissed off with myself for having 3 units" - I know TSM requires the poison to join the dots of the problem to the solution. But it was still there anyway (???). Then I thought to myself by 3pm today "I know I will drink". Therefore I decided to not stress about the inevitable (detox has never lasted long with me) & took the 50 ntx. I did not drink for the next 2 hours. I will soon sleep & I will have had 13 units when I have finished the can that is open now as I type. 13 x 7 = 91/wk so this is ~1/2 the rate of 180/wk but I've only been on the ntx for 2 days.

Naltrexone in the UK? Most doctors haven't heard of it let alone the public so you can imagine the "excuse to continue" crap I'm gonna get. However I do not care. I care about whether it works for me or not. So far I tried to smoke a cigarette & after 3 drags I could hardly type (I've never found nicotine addictive and can stop when I want, but it was like I was HIGH for a few minutes). I threw the rest out. These 13 units however - I can tell I am off key & I suppose it is what I wanted in a way - I'm still a bit drunk but it's a bored drunk not a giggly, jokey, everything is funny until people start asking questions type drunk. So day 1 - a bit makes me feel upset. Day 2 - upset doesn't happen, drink more, but I'm only having a drink because my reflexes are used to the old shitty routine. I know I'm supposed to be patient* but can someone tell me anything, good or bad, about months of TSM? Perhaps more than 1 person so I can get a generalised view of possible futures. *You see, I'm not patient at all. I want to know am I really just following a simple path of "don't worry, you have what you need now, so just continue as normal and let the science do its work", or should I expect a rougher time than that?

How good is this TSM combined with using the money saved by less drinking to pursue other pleasurable activities, all without ntx of course, & thus ensuring greater bioavailability of saved endorphins (the ones blocked from being released during drink time)? These 13 units have produced zilch of a high which has to be good in terms of slowly finding better things to do. But I still feel a bit woozy. Please could some TSMers, or ex TSMers, successful or not, offer some input on a remarkable situation for me? Last year I had resigned myself to the fate that big money/big interests meant a simple human like me would never get this chance. Now I need to give it the maximum chance of success. xxx.

[Diver]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

Welcome to TSM, I have been practicing TSM for about 18 months and have had some success although not as much as others. I recently start Bac in addition to Nal, and started a thread here. I also have a thread on the TSM website.

thesinclairmethod.com • Index page

It is a very supportive group there and I would recommend checking it out if you haven't already. Some people who start TSM experience a "Honeymoon" effect in the beginning. They see a sudden drop in the number of weekly units in the first few weeks however for most, the units work their way back up. For many who have had success they see a steady decline over a period of months, from what I have noticed it takes close to a year or more for most to get to the point where they are indifferent to alcohol.

[SKendall]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

:welcome: There is a lot of info in the Meds Thread. I took it for a short time and remember not wanting to smoke very much on it. This is a very supportive site and I hope you join us on your journey. We've all been there.

[YouKayBee]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

Welcome Lorddizzledonk

As you will guess from my name I'm in the UK and I also am prescribed Naltrexone as per TSM and have enjoyed massive success from it.

First thing is you need patience, you may see a big drop in your first week but that may rise again. Those that stick with it and also make other efforts to combat the drinking habit, tend to be the most successful. It doesn't work for everyone but for an awful lot of people it's enough to get them on their way to a new life.

Keep on taking the nal.

Some might say I'm biased but I am truly please more people are getting the opportunity to try TSM, it's not the be all by a long way but can help and is fairly simple to follow.

[martye]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

I take Naltrxone although I dont agree or believe is the TSM method. To me it just seems like an excuse to keep drinking. It can take months or years to reach you goals or you could simply go cold turkey using naltrexone and maybe some valium and hit your goals straight away.

Although we each need to do what works for us, I just dont seem to point of drinking to quit drinking

[YouKayBee]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

martye;1444158 wrote: I take Naltrxone although I dont agree or believe is the TSM method. To me it just seems like an excuse to keep drinking. It can take months or years to reach you goals or you could simply go cold turkey using naltrexone and maybe some valium and hit your goals straight away.

Although we each need to do what works for us, I just dont seem to point of drinking to quit drinking

Neither did I but I knew I'd failed to go cold turkey many, many times tried everything including valium to help with withdrawls but the overwhelming cravings came back every time and drove me up the wall. When I first joined MWO in I think 2007 I was trying all sorts of things and many members here will remember I put in 2 months, then almost 6 months without a drink but the cravings just blew my mind. I took Nal and drank on it even though quitting was my goal because there was no other way - believe me if I could have done it purely without drinking I definitely would have done it. Over time Nal and drinking took my cravings away, the cravings are completely gone and I'd see that as an amazing success. Sorry if you don't see it that way but prior to TSM the desire to drink was crippling and when I did cave I was getting myself into a right mess. These days I don't have those issues all because I drank and took naltrexone. I drank alcohol this last weekend, 4 units which is the only alcohol I've had in 14 days and it was only because I could - I decided to have a drink on a night out, was able to control it without effort and carried on with my life.

One of the reasons it's not accepted is because people don't understand it. Friends keep asking me "How long have you been sober now", because the change in me is so great they think I'm AF. When I explain no I can drink if I wish, but 99% of the time I don't want to and it's amaxzing.

If that's pointless well I am sorry but without this I'd have almost definitely be dead right now, or in prison. One or the other.

I'm living proof it's not an excuse to drink, well not for me anyway - it was a way out for me, a way to live and get rid of alcohol.

By the way I did stay AF for the first 10 days of TSM taking nal each day, but the cravings came back so I decided to have a go at killing the cravings dead for once and for all.

[lordwizzledonk]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

Thx for the replies. I too have tried the detox & zero alcohol afterwards (I cannot go cold turkey because I get seizures & DTs) but ended up totally obsessed with drink every day. To the point that even if I could withstand a battle against the drink on a given day I end up just thinking I can't be bothered - what is the use in living another 50 years that will feel like 500 very miserable years? I'd rather be drunk & take the highs even though the lows are worse than feel crap all the time. I don't delude myself with the "it's only 1 or 2" thing - I know full well when I pour that 1st beer that it will likely lead to relapse (although sometimes I have caved in & "managed" my valium supply to mini-detox after a lapse). But it's a stupid game because I know I'm going to lose sooner or later.

I'd rather just try something scientific. I was refused bac (of course) as an alternative to ntx when I was questing for either but preferably ntx or both. There is a change though in this early stage of ntx. It is so true so far that booze tastes the same, it gets me drunk the same at the same rate, but something is missing. Maybe it's the honeymoon period, but a part of my head is saying "don't like this ntx - it's ruining my party". Which means my logical side can say good - that, was the general idea. And yes, the rules are very easy to follow. So far today 6 units & it's 7:30 in the evening and I'm drinking so slowly.

I did say that I'm impatient so I will get this question out of the way now. Suppose it's a huge day like Christmas, New Year, a birthday or a massive party & you "forgot" to take your ntx on that single day, even though you knew that the rules are the same no matter what the day or occasion. Surely somebody has accidentally done this? If so, how much damage did they do to their progress by that mistake? Or let's put it another way - suppose you receive an invite to something & you really want to go, so you decide to, even though you know you will drink, but this time you don't "forget" the rules, so you turn up & the ntx blockade is in full force. Can you experience a party atmosphere like a "normal" drinker would? Can you still whip out your witty remarks, filthy mind, stupid jokes etc (I'm like that); in other words be yourself, without damaging your own journey through TSM?

[YouKayBee]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

Wizzle completely identify with you re the obsession with drinking.

Re not taking nal I have made sure I've never drank alcohol without it. If I think there's any chance I might drink on a day, I take my nal and that's it. Only time I forgot I was covered from the previous night - it was lunchtime and I took a sip of beer and remembered. I finished the beer but went straight to get my nal and take it, then had a gap until evening when I drank again.

Regards being the life and soul, I do not get the manic buzz which means I no longer get hyper. I mostly feel a bit tired when I drink these days, ok I'm not as daft but I've learned to be able to socialise without alcohol, learned to say things and have a laugh sober or with only a few drinks.

Considering the trouble I'd end up in the past pre-TSM I am quite happy to take the quiet seats, and when I do have the confidence to join in more I feel a whole lot better because I know I didn't need booze effects to do it.

[Cinders]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

I believe that for those whom TSM works, it is a Godsend.

Cindi

[lordwizzledonk]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

I too have decided that if heading into a risky situation such as being at a sports group where people might go to the pub afterwards that it is well worth using a ntx near the end of play & just saying "routine medication, (eg) anti-depressant" if anyone asks any questions, even if I don't end up needing it. Better than saying sorry, I'm not socialising because I'm addicted to drink (which only isolates oneself more causing further drinking because of anxiety), or going along & ending up risking progress along the TSM line, or getting wasted because I failed to follow easy instructions. Deffo the 3 rules are drink = always nal at least at hour in advance. Not drinking = no nal (obviously). Risk? = well, I'm not sure - any significant risk & I will go for the nal rather than invite the devil to dinner. Who knows, maybe I'll end up having not drunk & therefore "wasted" a nal but the silver lining is that I would have drunk without it but because I had to wait an hour it was the act of waiting that meant I just forgot about it & moved onto something else.

OK I think I will leave it for a while taking nal according to these 3 basic rules + no exceptions for any one off big nights (will be hard but I'll do it anyway). I will record daily units over a month or 2 without trying to drink more or less, in order to make my experiment with nal as natural as it can be, before using Excel to analyse the trend - down, up, or not much happening. Even if it seems to not be working, I'll def keep trying for at least a whole year to change my ways because 180 fucking units a week as an average - jeez - that's going to take some serious work on those strong neural pathways & the hypothesis being tested is extinction so why introduce other variables? At my worst I was at 250 a week until the doctor gave me valium so I could function at all.

UKBlonde - I have been reading your posts on thesinclairmethod.net too but I can't join - I can't read the anti robot code most times even though I have perfect vision, & it asks some question about popular sixties to eighties, boob-tube something or other and so on & I see it is working at GMT - 6 so is obviously an American site. What am I supposed to put as an answer to this "obvious" (to US users anyway) question? It means nothing to me other than confusing BS.

Happy to have joined MWO now because I like the name. You want AA - go for AA. You want meds - go for meds. You want therapy because you drink to blot out past troubles - have it. Need a combination - go ahead. Nice unjudgemental name for a recovery site. I do have a crappy past, however I'm over it & I drink to get high. That's why I obsess over it & why I think logic must intervene over my short term desires & rain on my parade with TSM. Just wish I could say weeks not months or years. But, I can't.

Day 1 = 3 units but only got back from detox ~6pm = 1/4 day so x4 = generalised 12.
Day 2 = 16.
Day 3 = 15 (at 11:50pm and when I've finished my drink - currently about 12).

Much slower drinking speed. Definitely less euphoria but no less drunkenness. 180/wk was = ~26/day so could be worse. Naltrexone you little killjoy. Don't just be a honeymoon, keep this up, pretty please?

[Heavy Fuel]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

Welcome! I have had tremendous success from TSM. 25+ days a month I don't drink, accordingly, I take nothing. I have my life back!

The things that helped me through the process was to always take the naltrexone one hour before drinking, keeping a log of drinks (as measured by an alcohol calculator,) and patience.

Good luck on your journey!

[YouKayBee]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

Bl@@dy excellent Heavy Fuel!

[Annieslane]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

wow guys this is really interesting! i was taking Tompa 200mg a day ordering overseas went to my doc and he said he would give me a script for Naltrexone which has similar result which would save me money. I found that after 2 wks of taking the Naltrexone i was drinking back to normal, however i was taking it first thing in the morning and i drink only at night! ( was not aware of the hour rule or the TSM Method) was going to go back to Topa as i found that to be better, but after reading this thread, I have ordered the TSM Book and going to contiune with the Naltrexone.

Im excited to see if it works!

[lordwizzledonk]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

I tried Topa but I can't really give any real scientific input into how useful it is because I ordered from the internet, so there's always those nagging questions - did I get the real deal & if so, did I get the dose it said on the packet?

It did not work for me. I only took a month's supply which I got from River. It was the summer of 2009 & there was a drop in drinking (not a big drop though) but I can't put it down to the meds. There was definitely some active ingredient in what I bought because I changed. It was quite hot that month & it seemed to make my body go into overdrive - I did lose weight - common with Topa, but the side effects were too bad - I ate less, my body overheated in the summer sun and most importantly I started to feel aggressive as well as hot all the time which was most unpleasant. I may have been drinking to excess but I've never felt aggression like that. I even felt aggressive when there was no-one there. I got offered my 1st credit card & remember it was roasting in the bank but when I was taken upstairs to negotiate my credit limit in a lovely air conditioned room I still wanted to throw something at the smug git trying to get me hooked on credit. I didn't do anything - got the card, still have it & have never abused it, but something was brewing that day that was saying to me this medicine is going to make me do something stupid one day. I had to give it up before I could draw any real conclusions as to "does it work long term?". But, that's not to say it can't work for someone else.

I just want to follow TSM now. The good news is that it's certain that I'm getting real 50mg ntx & I can confidently say that I don't get any side effects from it. However there's always the downside in a personal war like this - it took years to be addicted so IF! ntx turns out to lead to moderation or abstinence (I haven't set a goal - I will see where it takes me), I will probably be waiting a few months before I can report anything useful on the effectiveness of the drug.

Slightly off topic but I assume I can talk about adult things around here. Naltrexone most certainly is a party pooper. When my family questioned the idea of giving up on willpower & placing one's hope in a med to get started, and said it was an excuse to carry on (Doctors know more than you Mother), I said something like "let's just say my libido has dropped a lot. No "man time" in the last 11 days". The first few because of being in a depressing detox which was 1/2 way between a prison & a ward, then they start the naltrexone, then I leave & have required it since leaving as per the rules of TSM. This drug certainly says let's spin the roulette wheel again as opposed to another go to expensive detox --> fail quickly because nothing's really changed. I'm gonna stick with it for a long time before I either say "great", or "didn't work".

[YouKayBee]

What to expect? After winning the war to get prescribed naltrexone in the UK.

Annieslane;1445278 wrote: wow guys this is really interesting! i was taking Tompa 200mg a day ordering overseas went to my doc and he said he would give me a script for Naltrexone which has similar result which would save me money. I found that after 2 wks of taking the Naltrexone i was drinking back to normal, however i was taking it first thing in the morning and i drink only at night! ( was not aware of the hour rule or the TSM Method) was going to go back to Topa as i found that to be better, but after reading this thread, I have ordered the TSM Book and going to contiune with the Naltrexone.

Im excited to see if it works!

The one hour rule ensures maximum dose in place when you do drink. I started with taking it late morning because I couldn't trust myself to wait, once I decided to drink I'd not hold out. I would sometimes top up the dose if I didn't drink until 8 hours after the intial dose and did see an effect even with the early dose.

You'll be giving yourself a great chance if you do take it 1 hour before.