Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

[terryk]

Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

cookinghappy;1454170 wrote: Thank you. Have spent time re-reading this report, and wonder as I am on Sipralexa (Cipralex) for depression and Stilnoct (zolpidem tartrate) for sleeping, whether I come under the following point in the above report's observations;
However, there was a significant relationship between the use of psychotropic drugs, particularly benzodiazepines, and a worse outcome. Further work is needed to determine whether the effect of baclofen could be dampened by a concomitant treatment with certain psychotropic drugs, particularly benzodiazepines.

There is at least one anecdotal report on MWO that suggests that ssri anti-depressants may negate baclofen's anti-craving mechanism in some people (citalopram is mentioned here, which is the less refined, racemic version of Sipralexa/escitolpram):

https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...sal-43035.html (a longish read)

Might be worth looking into - I'm not a doctor, and I'm not giving advice here. Please consult a medical professional before changing the dose of any of the medications that you are on. Abrupt cessation from SSRIs (or baclofen) can cause serious consequences.

-tk

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

Hi, Cooking.
I have a new response to your original question.

I've never met anyone, other than Lo0p, who could tolerate baclofen. I don't think you'll find a single thread here that doesn't include a long list of side effects. Even the one guy who sort of enjoyed them (bleep_69, then bleep) had them.

Lo0p's experience is not that much of an anomaly, either. The man didn't work, lived at home, is young, had been using TSM for a long time, was extremely motivated, and took gobs of it in one go. He was at the end, with no hope for anything else, and so he found what he was looking for in a very short amount of time. You could try it this way too. There are several of us who wished that we had done it that way! Locked in a house with someone to care for us and going up as quickly as possible. It has backfired more times than it's worked, though. But it has worked for a couple of other people.

Here's my take on the study:
(Colin, please feel free to disregard. If you'd like to be dismissive again, please let's take that elsewhere. It's starting to get annoying.)

Basically, the doctor said it works if people can tolerate the side effects and if they're motivated to quit. (What he actually said was that if they couldn't take the side effects or if they didn't stop drinking, he assumed they were unmotivated.) That's not the way science works, but it is pretty much a reflection of what I've seen here.

The study also said that taking other meds made it less likely that people stopped drinking. I've seen that here too, and posted about it many, many times.

Finally, I think about half of the people were not working. I wonder what the correlation between success and failure was among those two groups. It is very, very hard to take baclofen if you've got stuff to do.

But there's good news, too. It works, period. And it works for just about everyone. You (and Colin) are not the exception to the rule. You are the rule. It's really just that hard. Which is why there aren't a lot more success stories.

You can continue to titrate up, by managing the side effects, and find that you don't want to drink anymore. It's there for the taking.

cookinghappy;1454170 wrote: I think I thought if I took the pills, indifference would just happen to me..That's exactly how it works. But you have to take enough of it to get that effect.

cookinghappy;1454170 wrote: I have now decreased my dose in order to reduce the side effects, but of course am back to feeling fed up that the baclofen's not doing any good. This week i've been back on a bottle of wine a night, and am hungry all the time. This is bad for me as I'm already overweight.

If you reduce the dose, then you move farther away from it working. If you continue to drink, the effects will continue to get worse. It sucks, but that's the way it happens.
If you are dieting, concerned about your weight, have any of that stuff going on, you're not going to make it. One battle at a time.
Here's why: Alcoholism is an incurable disease. That means that the people who quit drinking without treating the disease are one drink away from being an alcoholic, because they still have the disease. It also means that if you're taking baclofen to treat the disease, you had better focus on this one thing. It's big enough, it will change your life enough, that nothing else really matters.

Plus, it's just that hard. But it doesn't have to be.

cookinghappy;1454170 wrote: Further work is necessary to determine whether certain individuals are really insensitive to the anti-craving effects of baclofen.an>

Could this be me?
Nope. I doubt it. (EDIT: I say this because I thought it was me, too. I kept wanting to drink all the way up until I didn't anymore.)

cookinghappy;1454170 wrote: As I told you, I have a supportive gp (insofar as it was she who suggested the baclofen), but she has NO idea about dosage and how to help me.
I just don't know whether to give up, keep going... does anyone know of a doctor in Europe who would be willing to give me some time over the phone or by email to help me sort myself out?

Probably. Call the author of the study. I think Dr. Chick is a knucklehead who doesn't get it at all, but he prescribes baclofen (up to 100mg or something) and he's been doing it a long time. I can't remember where he is at the moment, but should be easy to find. There's a treatment program in Atlanta that uses baclofen (among other things). If my husband had the trouble that I had with baclofen, I was going to send him there. $24,000 (EDIT: I think it might only be $12k) seems like a lot of money (ridiculous, I know) until I realized how baclofen revolutionized my life. I'd pay double that to get what I have now. Without exaggeration, and without hesitation. Why? Because I'm now able to do exactly what I want, when I want, how I want. I come from a long line of high-functioning, highly successful alcoholics. I have no doubt that they were never able to say that, and I have no doubt I will earn much more because I'm free.

Sorry for the tome. Hope it helps.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

terryk;1454585 wrote: There is at least one anecdotal report on MWO that suggests that ssri anti-depressants may negate baclofen's anti-craving mechanism in some people

More than one. But I don't remember them and am not going to look them up. (sorry.) You could probably google it, though. Use SSRI, my way out and baclofen.

But as Terry said, please do not stop taking your medications without talking to a doctor. Please. Please, please, please.

[cookinghappy]

Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

Thank you so much for your replies. They really help when I'm feeling that I'm on my own in this. I'll give them all some thought. Ne, I think you might be right and that I should keep going, I just wish the side effects would move on faster with me. It seems that each time I go up a bit, I'm 'out of it' for the following 3 weeks.

I am still a little confused about the idea that I should try to stop drinking already (Hard, when the baclofen isn't making my cravings less), and waiting for the moment for indifference to hit. Do you think bac can do it for me even when I am not very motivated?

And don't worry, I'm not the sort to do anything crazy - I'm too scared. So when I change my doses, I always tell my husband so he knows incase anything odd happens. I've even taking to carrying my dosage written on a piece of paper in my wallet incase I ever need to go to hospital.

Thanks.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

cookinghappy;1454828 wrote:

I am still a little confused about the idea that I should try to stop drinking already (Hard, when the baclofen isn't making my cravings less), and waiting for the moment for indifference to hit. Do you think bac can do it for me even when I am not very motivated?

It's hard to answer that question. I have no idea. Because in my experience motivation to continue includes willingness to do whatever is needed to manage the SEs and keep going up. I don't even know anymore if this is the right thing for people to do. I would do it again. I would suggest it to a loved one (and obviously have) but it's an individual choice.

I wasn't suggesting that you should continue. That's completely up to you. If you opt to continue, then I guess the next question is how are you going to manage the things about this that are unmanageable? In every study done by Addolorato the people who committed to sobriety and had support, and were active in a supportive community, did better. That's true of any life-change. Outcomes are immensely improved (immensely!) when there is support involved. (Weight watchers, cancer support groups, quitting smoking support groups, running groups, exercise groups. You name it. The studies show that it works. AA is more the exception than the rule. But of course, they're trying to treat a disease, not just offer support. It would be kind of silly to join a cancer support group if one wasn't also getting treatment for the cancer, right?)

So. That's my suggestion: Look for ways in which you can get/give support and change your life and manage SEs. It's not easy, and it's not "necessary." But it might make the difference. It will certainly help if you get to a place of "I JUST CAN'T DO THIS ANYMORE!" And I think I reached that place about 782-thousand times.

Hang in there, and don't give up the good fight!

[cookinghappy]

Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

?

[COSGringo]

Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

Yeah, exactly, huh? Drunk posting on the MWO forum. Nice touch.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

cookinghappy;1455411 wrote: ?

COSGringo;1455476 wrote: Yeah, exactly, huh? Drunk posting on the MWO forum. Nice touch.

It's spam. You can identify spam because the posts are either nonsensical, or they are copied verbatim from another post. Also, there's always a link attached selling something. And the number of posts are generally low. (I think they have to post 3 times before they can attach a link.)
You can report it (to have it removed) by clicking on the exclamation in the triangle at the top right.

[COSGringo]

Are there people who just can't tolerate baclofen?

Ahhh, did not see the link. Still, could have been psilocybin related.