New Here, My Baclofen Diary

[kronkcarr]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

jessiesb2,

I've read this article and I think it's interesting. Brain plasticity has interested me for awhile. Have you read Dr Ameisen's book? He talks about glutamate along with the dopamine D2 receptors and the GABA B receptors. Wouldn't it be interesting if they came to the same conclusion?

One thing I noted is that NAC may require more time to recondition humans (compared to the rats in the original study) and that it works best if the person isn't drinking or drugging. This is one of the things I like about baclofen. Some here start bac and do continue to drink until they hit the switch.

One thing the article authors talked about was that other behavior support to teach coping strategies are still needed. I agree.

Thanks for bring this article back to my mind,

kronkcarr

SuperBinger, sorry for the slight hijack.

[SuperBinger]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

Day 64
Baclofen 30-30-30 = 90
Exercise = Weights, Walk 2 miles
Alcohol = 9 units

Dropping back to 90mg gave me almost immediate relief from the worst side effects I was getting at 105 and 110. Zombie cloud is mostly lifted, but no anxiety or anything I worried I might get by dropping 20mg very quickly. I was at 110 only for a single day, so maybe the drop was not that extreme.

Day 65
Baclofen 30-30-30 = 90mg
Exercise = Weights, Walk 2 miles
Alcohol = 10 units

Despite downing a bottle of wine on both Friday and Saturday nights, I have felt pretty good. I can definitely tell I drank the wine come the next morning, but compared to the bac SEs I was suffering with, this is better. Interesting to note though -- I had no desire to drink during the week, but now that I've cut the baclofen dose back I'm hitting the bottle again. Is it because of the reduced bac dosage, or because it was the weekend? Hmm.

Day 66
Baclofen 20-30-30 = 80mg
Exercise = Walk 2 miles
Alcohol = 7 units

Dropped down to 80mg today. Had wine on a Monday. Why? Not sure. It just seemed like a fun idea come witching hour. Correlation between reduced bac dosage and increased AL intake is hard to ignore.

Day 67
Baclofen 20-30-30 = 80mg
Exercise = Weights, walk 3 miles
Alcohol = AF

SE's pretty much gone now. Mood much improved. Enjoying music a little more again. I made the right decision by backing down a little. Only SE I still notice is vertigo when I roll over or change position in bed. Or at the gym when I lie down on the workout bench. It is not debilitating, but definitely there. I do not think I will drop down any lower than 80mg now that the SEs are diminished. I will hold here at 80mg until after the music festival in a week and a half, and then start back up, but more slowly. I'm thinking 5mg every 4th or 5th day.

SB

[SuperBinger]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

Day 68
Baclofen 25-30-30 = 85 mg
Exercise = Weights, walk 2 miles
Alcohol = AF

Side effects have been vanquished with the reduction to 80mg, but I notice I'm drinking more, too. So, I'm bumping the dose back up by a very tiny amount to 85 mg.

Day 69
Baclofen 25-30-30 = 85mg
Exercise = Weights, walk 3 miles
Alcohol = 11 units

Friday night, killed a bottle and even grabbed another glass from my co-conspirator.

I finally found a few moments to call my Doctor back today. I told him I'd titrated all the way up to 110mg but had come back down to 80mg because of the SEs. He said he had read the materials I gave him, but he couldn't prescribe baclofen at the levels I was already taking. He said he'd provided copies of my materials to another doctor who is treating a similarly-situated patient, but had not heard back from him yet. He said he had contacted a psychiatrist colleague, who had never even heard of baclofen. He said he felt like he was "out on a deserted island" having prescribed baclofen to me. I reassured him that my AL consumption was definitely down since starting on this program, and I wanted to continue to higher doses, even if it was without a prescription from him. He said he understood that I needed to do what is best for me, and wished me best of luck experimenting with High Dose Baclofen. He told me to set an appointment for a couple months out to monitor my high blood pressure.

Day 70
Baclofen 25-30-30 = 85mg
Exercise = Walk 4.5 miles
BP = 135/85
Alcohol = 10 units

Blood pressure a little higher than it should be. I stopped taking my BP meds because I thought the dizziness I was experiencing was hypotension caused by the combination of baclofen and Lisinopril/HCTZ. However, the dizziness did not resolve after I stopped the BP meds, so I think I will start them back up.

[SuperBinger]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

Days 71 - 83
Baclofen = 85mg

Sorry for no posts for a while. I have maintained at 85mg. Drinking pattern has been consistent. Still have the urge every other day, but amounts consumed per session remains about half of what I had been consuming pre-baclofen (18 unit binges down to 9 - 11 unit sessions).

Originally I planned to begin my titration march up after I got back from the Coachella music festival, but now a family crisis has struck. I don't want to deal with side effects in addition to dealing with my family issues, so now I am considering titrating down and getting off the baclofen until I'm in a better spot in my life to do this properly.

I'm very pleased with the undeniable reduction in AL intake that the baclofen has helped me achieve. This stuff definitely works. But the fact is that I never feel quite right while I'm on it. The side effects at 85mg are not unbearable, but they are mildly annoying. I think I just want to feel "normal" again for a while, and not constantly sedated, always "blah." I hope I can control my intake if I do come off the baclofen, and not return to the 18 unit binges 4 days a week.

I take comfort that baclofen is always there for me to use when I'm ready to try this again -- but for right now I think I need to come off it and not JKTTP.

I'll continue to post if I think I have something helpful to offer, but today I will drop to 80mg, and drop by 10mg per week until I'm either completely off bac, or completely free of side effects.

SB

[bleep]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

Interesting idea. I don't think you would have to come off baclofen entirely in order to have no SE's. You'd probably find relief from SE's at a dose just under what you have been consistently taking for a while.

You have approached this methodically and in a fashion that I could never hope to do, so take this in the intention that it is meant: alcoholism doesn't get better. There is no time like the present to address it, and there will always be a reason not to. The SE's will eventually fade away when you get to a consistent dose.

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best.

[kronkcarr]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

Superbinger,

It sounds like you have a good plan in place. I hope your family issues straighten around. I know that blah feeling. I had it at 80 mgs and I'm down to 60 and it feels good to be motivated again. Please do let everyone know what's going on. Good luck!

[spiritwolf333]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

kronkcarr;1494452 wrote: Superbinger,

It sounds like you have a good plan in place. I hope your family issues straighten around. I know that blah feeling. I had it at 80 mgs and I'm down to 60 and it feels good to be motivated again. Please do let everyone know what's going on. Good luck!

I am glad that I saw where you and bleep saw this post today. Now that I think I know how the journal would work, I am going to start mine tonight and back and then moving forward. I think this would help me be more accountable to myself.

[SuperBinger]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

take this in the intention that it is meant: alcoholism doesn't get better.

Duly noted and appreciated, bleep. Somebody earlier compared complaining about baclofen side effects to complaining about chemotherapy side effects. Alcoholism and cancer are both deadly diseases, so if the cure includes a few side effects, so what? That comparison resonated with me and I won't forget it. Very grateful to have found this group and a very effective weapon against AL.

Thanks,
SB

[Cassander]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

SuperBinger;1494410 wrote:

...but now a family crisis has struck. I don't want to deal with side effects in addition to dealing with my family issues, so now I am considering titrating down and getting off the baclofen until I'm in a better spot in my life to do this properly.

...
I'll continue to post if I think I have something helpful to offer, but today I will drop to 80mg, and drop by 10mg per week until I'm either completely off bac, or completely free of side effects.

SB

Hi SB -- We haven't talked before, but I have been following your story. I hope the family crisis is resolving and that with a little titration down the SEs have abated. I'm with bleep...there's no time like the present time for finishing the job...hope to see you bac here soon. Cassander

[SuperBinger]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

Hello, I wanted to update the nice people reading this forum with my "progress" since my last post.

The family crisis from last April was dealt with and resolved (thanks Cassandra).

My titration down from bac was uneventful starting last April. No anxiety, and if I recall correctly, the awful side effects subsided quickly after I started reducing my dosages down from 90 mg.

On May 8, 2013, I started on TSM, hoping that maybe this cure would work for me. It has, somewhat.

I have been following TSM, (50mg. Naltrexone 1 hour before drinking) since May 8, 2013 (8 months). I still drink too much, but TSM definitely reduced my consumption. At my worst, I was downing 2 bottles of wine in a session, 4 days a week. After using TSM for 8 months, I am ready to quit after a bottle, plus maybe another glass or two. Leaving the 2nd, mostly-full bottle in the fridge and going to bed is not a problem for me at all. This is a big victory.

So yes, TSM has helped me. However, my drinking pattern has not really changed. I still have wine basically every other night (Friday, Saturday, Monday, Wednesday). Because I was hoping to be completely "cured" after 6 months or so as many TSM'ers claim was their experience, I am still disappointed that I drink to excess so often.

On January 2, 2014 I decided to start in again with baclofen, while continuing with TSM. I decided to start with 30mg per day (10-10-10) and increase by 10mg per week:

Week 1: 10-10-10 = 30mg
Week 2: 10-10-20 = 40mg
Week 3: 10-20-20 = 50mg
Week 4: 20-20-20 = 60mg

So here I am today, using TSM and baclofen together, and still drinking, but at only about 60% of the amounts I was drinking before. I attribute my reduced per-session consumption to the endorphin-regulating effects of the Naltrexone. I am hoping that if I can get back up to a high enough level of baclofen, the GABA-regulating effects will render me sufficiently indifferent to alcohol that I can reduce my number of weekly drinking sessions to the point that I'm not drinking much at all.

TSM has totally removed any "obsessive" thoughts about drinking, which is pretty miraculous, and a big relief. Just today I was out for brunch at a place known for generous mimosas. I had absolutely no trouble at all saying no. This is new and different and great.

Having just written that, I'm asking myself, "then why are you drinking wine as you write this post?" I don't know. Drinking on Saturday night is a fun habit that I know I'll pay for tomorrow as I have every Sunday for years.

However, I sense that the Naltrexone is gradually re-wiring my brain so that I don't crave the poison constantly anymore, and hopefully I can leave it behind forever.

I don't understand why TSM is taking so much longer to work for me than the approximately 6 months many claim success with. There were three or four instances in the past 8 months where I broke the TSM rules: About 2 months into TSM, I found myself without my Naltrexone and drank martinis without taking the medication. In addition, there were 2 or 3 other instances in which I did not leave the full hour after eating the Naltrexone before drinking, and started drinking only 20 or 30 minutes after taking the mediction. Could these few instances have set my brain back far enough to account for my slow response to TSM? I don't know.

Peace, Superbinger

P.S. I heard about LOop, and was shocked and saddened. My wife, MyNameIs, had just received an order of liquid bac from him before he died, and we still have it here, unused.

[thomas m]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

The TSM timeline seems to vary. 6 months didn't do it for me either but it totally took the fun out of drinking. I usually couldn't get through the 3rd or 4th beer. I was 8 months in before I messed up and regressed. Looking back and knowing what I do now... I think a bit of will power will help next time. I was sort of waiting on a eureka moment which would probably never have came. I'm starting back in a fortnight and hope to have the same results. At this point I'm not totally concerned about getting fully "cured". I just want to cut back to healthy (ish) levels. TSM had my units at under 40 (UK) which is nothing really.

Definitely don't mess with the protocol. I went about 10 drinking days with no Nal and backslid like you wouldn't believe. To this day I find it hard to figure. I've since learnt that TSM and benzos don't go well together. I'm thinking there is some substance to that now as around this time I'd been taking Diazepam. That was 2012 and looking back, it was a good year.

I also had problems with Bac SEs and couldn't hack it. I tried it last summer. It was mostly mental with me. I had the most God awful anxiety and could barely leave the house. I though I was going psychotic. I really wanted it to work as I love the idea of being totally indifferent to booze but I think my mental health was at risk a bit tbh.

[SuperBinger]

New Here, My Baclofen Diary

With this update, I'm happy to finally report success. Though it has only been about a week, there has been a definite change (the "switch"), and I feel fully in control for the first time in years. Yay!

I stuck with the plan outlined in my last post, and increased my baclofen dosage by 10mg per week, so I am currently at 90mg, while also continuing to follow TSM (Naltrexone 1 hour before drinking).

I experienced all the yucky baclofen side effects I felt last time I tried increasing my dosage, but they seemed somewhat more bearable this time. I think this is probably because I wasn't drinking quite as much as I was last time I tried to titrate up with baclofen.

I finally hit "the switch" last week at 90mg baclofen, concurrent with TSM. My interest in AL is, poof, gone! Last Saturday night -- a night of the week that a year ago I would polish off two bottles of wine -- I drank 1 single glass of white, and went to bed. In fact, I didn't even finish the glass -- tossed the last swig in the sink. This week I have had several AL-free days, and on the days I have a wine, it has been never more than a glass or two. Willpower is not at play here -- I'm just indifferent to it. Effortless abstinence. Woo hoo!

I do not know if TSM just finally kicked in after 9 months, or if it was the combination of TSM with the 90mg of baclofen. But my goal in doing both programs simultaneously was to break the grip of AL, and it worked.

I plan to stick at 90mg baclofen for a while, maybe a month. Then I will titrate down gradually, monitoring for the return of any cravings of increases in consumption. It is my hope that I can wean myself off baclofen, and TSM will sustain my indifference to AL for the future.

thomas m, I experienced the same thing -- Naltrexone definitely makes drinking less fun. But until last week, it was still fun enough for me to keep up my drinking frequency. However, the blocked endorphin response (reduced "fun") resulted in a reduced per-session unit consumption.

I suspect the reduced per-session consumption from TSM, plus the GABA effects of the high-dose baclofen, plus the cumulative effect of TSM's psychological extinction, finally got me to the promised land.

Thanks to all who post here on mywayout.org -- this forum was instrumental in my eventual success, even though I don't contribute too much to other threads. I feel great and am very glad I did not give up.

Best,
Superbinger