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    #31
    Contingency law suit against suppliers and manufacturers of alcohol

    The argument that is coming out is that we should take responsibility for our own actions. I don't think there is a group of people who have that drilled into their heads more than those with addictions, particularly alcoholism.

    Then, we find that people who make massive profits from this and advertise it as a lifestyle choice, and a great one at that, can watch as the people who consume their product die from it while others have to pick up the pieces.

    That is the serious bit.

    I worked with a lawyer whose job it was to keep track of accidents involving Cesna's. I expect there are lawyers out there whose job it is to defend the alcohol industry and keep an eye on liability issues. After all, any company which owns a distillery or brewery has to be concerned about its shareholders. If, for instance, a company decides to offer shares it has to file a prospectus so that buyers know what the shares are worth. They have to exercise due diligence in drafting the prospectus and if they don't, and there is actually a ?200 billion law suit on the horizon they can be sued for misrepresenting the value of the stock they are selling.

    I suppose there is some big money out there which has an incentive to peddle this nonsense that alcoholism is a choice and everyone can beat it if they just wish it so. A bit like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. Yes, some people can. But is no one addicted at all to it??

    Maybe there is even money to be made by researchers who debunk baclofen and test it up to 30 mg a day and find it doesn't actually work very well. Maybe it would not be good for the alcohol industry to find out that there is a treatment because that would mean there were brain chemical issues involved and not just "will power" and that it does have a physical, addictive nature. Not that I am a conspiracy theorist but I wonder how the lawyers for the booze industry would look at this. Even where there people on public forums trying to desperately to stop, you get this wishy washy idea that a chronic, life threatening illness isn't an illness at all and really, ultimately has nothing to do with the booze industry.

    I suppose what I find really sad is this. I am not an alcoholic and never was although I did drink and stopped, over a long period and with great difficulty. I am involved in this because I wanted to get help for someone and I got it. I get some satisfaction out of thinking I am helping others and encouraging an attitude that might result in more people doing something for others about this issue. Yet, I find myself being attacked over side issues about whether baclofen is or is not the only gaba b agonist or whether tobacco is addictive and alcohol isn't addictive.

    There seems at times to be a parsimoniousness of spirit here. People see someone making a point which might help others and jumping in to bash it down just because they have nothing better to do than trying to get one over in an argument. A lot of what I say, I put here to try to encourage people. Maybe it would give someone some hope if they thought that lawyers, courts, legislators might actually be concerned about addiction and do something about it if they realized alcohol was an addiction, and there is ample evidence of that. But, hey, no, post something that says its all wrong, insult someone because of their profession. Some people people become lawyers because they they have a deep seated desire to help people.
    BACLOFENISTA

    baclofenuk.com

    http://www.theendofmyaddiction.org





    Olivier Ameisen

    In addiction, suppression of symptoms should suppress the disease altogether since addiction is, as he observed, a "symptom-driven disease". Of all "anticraving medications used in animals, only one - baclofen - has the unique property of suppressing the motivation to consume cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine and d-amphetamine"

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      #32
      Contingency law suit against suppliers and manufacturers of alcohol

      Even conspiracy theorists must occasionally be right.

      Comment


        #33
        Contingency law suit against suppliers and manufacturers of alcohol

        Otter;1458926 wrote:
        I suppose there is some big money out there which has an incentive to peddle this nonsense that alcoholism is a choice and everyone can beat it if they just wish it so. A bit like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. Yes, exactly.

        Otter;1458926 wrote: Maybe there is even money to be made by researchers who debunk baclofen and test it up to 30 mg a day and find it doesn't actually work very well.
        More like a disincentive to find that it works.

        Otter;1458926 wrote:
        Maybe it would not be good for the alcohol industry to find out that there is a treatment because that would mean there were brain chemical issues involved and not just "will power" and that it does have a physical, addictive nature.
        There is a very lucrative industry tied up in the "treatment" of alcoholism from a spiritual, moral and ethical perspective. The actual treatment for brain chemistry is absolutely secondary.

        I think you're right. I also think that it's only possible if
        1. Alcoholism/addiction can be proven in a court of law to be physically/chemically addictive. This is the big hurdle. The spiritual/moral/ethical standard is so pervasive that it is part of the framework for every aspect of treatment, from our national standards to our daily AA meetings.
        But I didn't have a choice. Until I did, because of baclofen. And then I quit drinking. Without any assistance from anything other than a generic pill and the support and information I found here. Which is exactly why I wholeheartedly agree with your point.
        2. There has to be maliciousness on the part of the manufacturers.

        I think it might be more reasonable to talk about litigation against rehabs. And against AA. And the federal government. There is more than enough evidence that it is chemistry that creates addiction. Why isn't this reflected in treatment? Programs? AA groups?

        Comment


          #34
          Contingency law suit against suppliers and manufacturers of alcohol

          I think that doctors, particularly addiction psychiatrists, have a great deal of culpability. I'm not trying to be litigious, and I'm definitely not a conspiracist, but a doctor who specializes in addiction has absolutely no excuse for not prescribing baclofen. None.

          Particularly in countries that have approved it off label. But even here in the U.S.

          hmmmm.

          Comment


            #35
            Contingency law suit against suppliers and manufacturers of alcohol

            my friend and i used to joke about suing anheiser-bush because bud light made us fat! its says "light"right on the can,false advertising,maybe we have a case
            I have too much shit to do today and tomorrow to drink:sohappy:

            I'm taking care of the "tomorrow me":thumbsup:
            Drinkin won't help a damn thing! Will only make me sick for DAYS and that ugly, spacey dumb feeling-no thanks!

            Comment


              #36
              Contingency law suit against suppliers and manufacturers of alcohol

              It causes diabetes which is an illness and not a joke to the people who have it.

              Ne, there doesn't have to be maliciousness. In cases of product liability the intention of the producer is irrlevant. It is called strict liability. You produce a dangerous product and you are liable for damage which results from its use.

              A court would have to be persuaded on the basis of medical evidence that a plaintiff has become addicted to it. The original Senate recommendation was to add the warning that alcohol was addictive. It would be hard now to argue that it isn't addictive for some people. It is only a matter of proving it is probably addictive.

              I am actually finding it hard to believe that anyone would suggest that an educated judge would not think an alcoholic had become addicted to alcohol.
              BACLOFENISTA

              baclofenuk.com

              http://www.theendofmyaddiction.org





              Olivier Ameisen

              In addiction, suppression of symptoms should suppress the disease altogether since addiction is, as he observed, a "symptom-driven disease". Of all "anticraving medications used in animals, only one - baclofen - has the unique property of suppressing the motivation to consume cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine and d-amphetamine"

              Comment


                #37
                Contingency law suit against suppliers and manufacturers of alcohol

                I would find it hard to believe that an educated judge wouldn't believe someone could get addicted to alcohol too. I wasn't being sarcastic when I said, have at it and give it a go. Otter, you told me you didn't mind a little debate. There's a few ways to think about it and you might be on to something. Nothing changes when nobody does anything.

                You've made me think about things too. You should see all the liquor billboards when driving on the expressway by the city. Especially when leaving the city. These are the billboards commuters see when driving home after a stressful day at work. Of course this increases liquor sales, whether the person becomes addicted or not. I think that's wrong. Do I think I could sue over it? I'm not so sure, but I do think their ability to advertise the way they do should change.

                :l
                This Princess Saved Herself

                Comment


                  #38
                  Contingency law suit against suppliers and manufacturers of alcohol

                  I don't know enough about the tobacco law suits and the types of warnings which are/were on tobacco packaging to say whether it is the same as what is on alcohol. That is legal issue.

                  I think alcohol is far more dangerous than tobacco, the social cost is higher. It is definitely addictive. I just wonder, with all the lawyers who take law suits out over crazy things, how difficult it would be to get someone to pursue this given the huge damage paid in cases where the damage to health is so great. I don't know the answer. I am not really interested in the arguments against it. I think the medical evidence is there that it is addictive. I can't even understand why anyone would say it isn't. You could make the same arguments about freedom of choice about smoking. I don't understand why people can't stop. I have smoked a cigar or cigarette but I didn't get addicted. I could go around telling people they should just stop smoking just like people here are saying drinking is a personal choice.
                  BACLOFENISTA

                  baclofenuk.com

                  http://www.theendofmyaddiction.org





                  Olivier Ameisen

                  In addiction, suppression of symptoms should suppress the disease altogether since addiction is, as he observed, a "symptom-driven disease". Of all "anticraving medications used in animals, only one - baclofen - has the unique property of suppressing the motivation to consume cocaine, heroin, alcohol, nicotine and d-amphetamine"

                  Comment

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