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[dundrinkn]

I will post all my info later. Have been reading post on here for a week or so and have decided to try baclofen. I have had long stretches of not drinking with and without meds. Topamax was helpful the first time, not the second. I am encouraged about all I've read about bac. I had trouble getting insurance (in U.S.) after I had a topamax prescription. I believe that insurance companies can track prescriptions even if you don't claim in on insurance. Does anyone know of this or ways around it? I am seeing a Doctor this week and will get a script from her, but not sure where or how to go about getting it filled. Would appreciate any ideas or experience. Thanks.

[Persephone1]

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Hello, I am sorry to say that I don't have any answers to your questions, but I'm sure your doc will be able to answer them all. I did want to welcome you. I hope you find what helps you along your path to sobriety. This is a great place for support. Take care.

[techie]

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First off a BIG WELCOME. I'm not sure about your insurance issue regarding Topamax. Topamax is an anticonvulsant meds designed primarily to treat seizures. It is ONLY used "off label" for the treatment of alcoholism. I find it hard to believe an insurance company would drop someone based on an assumption of what a drug was prescribe for. In fact, that's not only unethical, its illegal. Oh yeah, they're sleazy but I suspect there is some other reason. Keep digging.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Hey, Dun! Sorry for the delay in a welcome! Weekends can be a bit quiet around here.

Okay, I'm not sure about how insurance companies can track meds if you don't use insurance to pay for them. And I can't think of a different way to get them, if you want to use a legal prescription. There are some other options, though. You can order from an overseas pharmacy. Or you can get it in liquid form. Both without a prescription, both without insurance.

I actually wonder if your first stumbling block might not be a bit different than that, though. (I'm not being a pessimist! Really!) Unless you've got a very open minded doctor, or one of the very few in the country (I'm assuming you're in the U.S.) who know anything about baclofen, it might be hard to get a script in the first place! Which is frustrating and hard to believe, but too often true. Now, I could be wrong, as I've noticed a lot more people posting that their docs are willing to try this route. But if not, don't lose heart or hope. There are definitely options. Even for a legal prescription, if that's the way you want to go.

We've all been right where you are and found a solution, and a way out. I'll keep an eye out for you so that if you post again it won't take so darn long to hear from someone on the meds threads!
Hi to Techie and Persephone, too!

[dundrinkn]

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Thanks for the welcome/s. When I was prescribed Topa, it was a ton of money for a script (probably 6 years ago). I wasn't kicked off insurance, but when I got divorced and had to get my own coverage, I was denied coverage based not just on the med, but the trips to the psychiatrist. I did finally get coverage, but bumped up 30% from normal rates. I am now covered through a job, but you never know.

I went ahead and ordered liquid bac as I am ready to go and don't want to have to fight the psychiatrist over dosage. She will prescribe it, based on our phone discussion. She didn't know about it, but I sent her the links and she is very forward thinking (she's the one that prescribed the Topamax 6 years ago). I will go ahead and see her to get a script incase I need to fill it at some point. I also have been taking provigil (from overseas) and I'm guessing I need to not take that anymore. When she prescribed the Topa, I also got a script for concerta to deal with sleepiness. So might try and get something to be able to deal with SEs of sleepiness.

A bit on my story. I was "sober" through AA in my 20s. I started drinking as a teen and hit trouble in college and went the support group route. I am now closing in on 50 and since 30, I have drank on and off. Mostly on (every day 10-16 beers) with months of AB here and there. I no longer have issues with depression that plagued me for most of my life. I think the shift in hormones is in good part responsible for the relief. Can't stomach "the program" anymore, but am looking to find a way to deal with the drinking.

I remember the first time on the Topa, I was so surprised when I realized I wasn't anxious. I hadn't realized I had anxiety. That was what made me think the bac might be very helpful for me. We'll see. Look forward to reading more journals on here. Tons of good info and great stories.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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dundrinkn;1460322 wrote:
I remember the first time on the Topa, I was so surprised when I realized I wasn't anxious. I hadn't realized I had anxiety.

That was my experience with bac. I suddenly realized I wasn't on this carousel of doom and gloom and "OH NO, what's going to happen???" (AKA "the sky is falling, the sky is falling!")

Glad you found a solution! Sounds like you have a very cool doc. I'm glad for that too. As you pointed out, it's good to cover the bases. I like having a script, for practical purposes. But the other options are good ones, too.

Welcome aboard, Dun!

[dundrinkn]

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Day 1 Bac
5mg at 2pm (when it arrived just two days after placing order!)
5 mg at 6pm

I had already had 3 beers at lunch before the mail came. After work, I had 5 beers. I could have easily stopped at 3. But usually if I push through, then I don't stop until 10 or 12. So,... don't know if it is the bac or not. Felt a little sleepy in the afternoon, but I did have three beers for lunch.

What is a "unit" of alcohol?

[dundrinkn]

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Day 2, had 15 mg totol and same for Day 3. Drank 3 beers day 2, and was AF yesterday. First AF day in 10 months. I had lots of triggers, but drinking did not appeal to me. I have had times like that before, but the emotional pull would get me to drink through it. I have had other things that have given me the feeling that bac does (topa, some othr things) but drank anyway and eventually lost the window of opportunity. I don't want that to happen with bac, so may try and stay AF. If is hard to say, even. Want to keep my options open. But so far this doesn't feel like white knuckling it. And I know that feeling.... did it for years in AA. No relief there for me.

Also been having vivid dreams where I am a total badass. I have done a butt load of therapy and meditation and self-reflection, but I think I might still be really flippin' angry because I am whoppin' up on folks in my dreams. Usually I am much more of mediator.

Day 4 today. So far so good.

[COSGringo]

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Hang in there.
I am surprised about the insurance. I would suspect it was more of the code that was used for why you had the scrip than the scrip itself.

I don't think the baclofen would be an issue on your insurance. I really don't but that topa situation is odd, too.

Vivid dreams are normal. They will pass, in time.

I think it could take a while for you as it did for most of us. Please be ready for the side effects.

It's a long road you might have to travel but if you are willing to do this then I think you are ready for the road.

It may make sense to use your doctor for this "trip". At least you would have someone willing to work with you. Just a thought.

[anxiouscat]

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I wonder if you were flagged as having a pre-existing condition. Even if you don't use insurance to pay for a prescription, as long as you use insurance to pay for the doctor visit the code for the diagnosis still gets billed to insurance. I haven't had insurance troubles myself, and I have been officially prescribed both for migraines (very progressive neurology clinic trying meds off-label), but I also have not had any lapses in group coverage thankfully, so pre-existing clauses don't apply. Now that you have coverage through a job, it might not be a problem (group coverage has it's own set of rules) so it's worth trying. Even if you're denied, you can hold out until next year when the pre-existing clauses go away due to legislation.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Hey Dun!

So I noticed you noticing the, um, douchebaggery of shit-storm. Is that what he said? :H

Sorry for our luck, but it looks as though the trolls have been unleashed. I can't say that I've found an effective way to work with them or around them, so I just ignore them. I tend to think that it must suck to be that effin' miserable, probably still drunk, and likely hopeless. So...I let it go. I try to leave the really sick people alone when they get angry and act out, you know?

But know this: What you read from trolls are lies and misinformation. If you click on the name of a person you can read everything they've posted. It's a helpful tool to find out who is who and what the real story is.

This is the most important thing, though: What you're doing is right on. I've been contentedly indifferent for just over two years, now. (2 years and 13 days! woop! )

It works. It helps to have support and get info here. But jkttdp, and you'll likely get here too.

[dundrinkn]

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Thanks for the post. I appreciate it. Some weirdness here the last few days for sure. I am loving life and bac. Met with my doc, got a script but am so far sticking with the liquid stuff which is working wonders. In the last 7 days I have had a total of 12 beers (8 of those on day one) and 4 AF free days. I haven't been totally AF since I started, but I don't feel that compulsion or pull in the same way. I feel like the anxiety has slipped away like it is a skin that isn't my own anymore. Whew. What a frickin' relief. Thanks again for the support. I am hopeful and looking to give hope to anyone else looking for it.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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I meant to comment on this several days ago, because it made me grin!

dundrinkn;1462769 wrote:
Also been having vivid dreams where I am a total badass.

I still feel like a total badass for kicking the ass of the only thing that ever kicked my ass. Rock on!

[Ne/Neva Eva]

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Congrats on the AF time, too. That's great that you're doing that and I'm really happy for you. It's an amazing med in so many ways.

I also meant to say that I haven't had a dream I remember in ages. Which almost makes me nostalgic for bac dreams... But not. Back then I was scared of the whole bac thing, and the whole sobriety thing, and the life thing and the great big thing under the bed... and my dreams reflected that!

and speaking of...I have to go to bed. Right now before my eyes shut where I sit!

zzzzzzzz

[Cassander]

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dundrinkn;1464718 wrote: Thanks for the post. I appreciate it. Some weirdness here the last few days for sure. I am loving life and bac. ...

Hi Dun

I just want to underscore Ne's post and her encouragement and offer my view of the world and mwo to you and also to the numerous other relative newcomers who have found their way to this place in recent days and weeks.

I have been around here (mwo) for almost two years. In general, this is a wonderful place. There is huge support for all who come here wanting to slay the beast. It is a big tent. There is support for those who are using meds and those who are not and all kinds of variations in between.

Here in the meds section, there is much discussion of, and support for baclofen, naltrexone and topamirate. Others find help and improvement with antabuse and supplements. In general there is a spirit of openness and inquiry here (which, I think, is appropriate, given the medical communities' generally abysmal record in treating alcoholism).

I have been accused here occasionally of "selling" or "pushing" bac. Not so. I am still open-minded enough to believe that we don't know everything about how bac works or, for that matter, about the chemistry of the brain as it relates to anxiety, pleasure, or addiction. I have no doubt that other compounds will be found to be effective in treating alcoholism as more is learned about the chemistry of the brain and how alcohol works in the brain. I am however absolutely a believer that alcoholism is a disease and that it will be found to be curable with medicine.

Over the past two years I have come to the personal conclusion that baclofen is a medicine which "works". I admit freely that I haven't had to use it for my own anxiety and alcohol abuse, but I have watched it work for my son and for many, many others, including a handful on this board who I now count as friends. In that sense I believe I am "objective".

It is a shame that doctors are not involved more in the treatment of alcohol addiction with baclofen, since many suffer side effects which are scary and painful. My personal view is that the side effects are often caused by pre-existing mood instability, erratic titration and alcohol abuse during titration and can usually be managed quite successfully -- but not always.

I think there are co-morbidities (co-existing conditions) which can also exacerbate baclofen side effects, such as obesity and sleep apnea. It also appears that certain alcoholic personality types seem to benefit less or not at all from bac. But, for those (like me) who drink because of a kind of generalized anxiety that seems to only respond to (and ultimately demand) alcohol, baclofen is a miracle drug.

It is also a shame that the "authorities" and professionals in the area of alcohol addiction treatment are (seemingly) not aggressively pursuing the legitimization of baclofen treatment. For example, the NIAAA website is virtually silent on the potential of baclofen therapy, and hardly any GP still has ever heard of it. This is not only a shame, but perhaps (as Otter and I have theorized) a significant legal liability in the making. We'll see.

There are dollops of good news, however. The French prescribing methodology is sound and endorsed by leading French doctors and now, the French health authorities. The results of various studies are published every few months and they are without exception encouraging. Even the one US study which did not find a correlation between baclofen treatment and reduction in craving can be easily distinguished because it used only low dose baclofen. And there are more studies underway, especially outside the United States. Official recognition of the efficacy of baclofen is probably only a few years off.

And then, back to this board, we do have the occasional descents into craziness. This is perhaps to be expected because, after all, this is a place where alcoholics come, and alcoholics do not always put their best foot forward.

In the roughly two years I have been here I have seen several episodes of this and it is still surprising to me how much (short term) damage a few ill-intentioned posters can cause. While they pose as "normal" alcoholics, the subject matter of their posts is usually illogical, nonsensical, untruthful, hostile, inflammatory or some combination of all of the foregoing. And because we are (to some extent) still fragile and uncertain enough ourselves, we often get drawn into confrontations with these posters and their serial posts remain up on the board for all to see and be influenced by. This is very sad and undermines the importance and usefullness of this board.

But these episodes are transitory. The malevolent posters have a short attention span and they generally move on. Those who stay here, and provide the critically important information, experience and support for newcomers in need of all of the foregoing are extraordinarily intelligent and unselfish people who truly do good in this world.

This is, really, an amazing place.

Cheers and best of luck,

Cassander