Ready, set, stop!

[Cassander]

Ready, set, stop!

kuya;1465936 wrote: I am an interested observer and read around many threads even though med free abstainance works well for me.

I am repeatedly struck by how anxiety seems at the core of why Bac seems to work for you.

I had anxiety whilst drinking but it stopped when I quit.

Dundrinkin ..... You were sober for years but still craved alcohol so it suggests that alcohol was medicating anxiety, whereas for those who can happily quit alcohol was the cause of their anxiety.

It would appear to create two distinct groups of alcoholics

Hello Kuya

Have you looked at the thread I started on this topic? See: https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...ety-50827.html

There is lots to the subject, and only fragments are covered in the thread.

I am inclined to agree that there are alcoholics for whom anxiety is the pre-existing condition, and those for whom it is not, and for those with pre-existing anxiety, baclofen seems to help a lot.

Best

Cassander

PS Interestingly, anxiety is my baseline problem, and med free abstinence (with plenty of exercise and regular sleep and stress avoidance) is working very well for me. But if I were ever tempted to drink against my will, I know exactly what I would do.

[dundrinkn]

Ready, set, stop!

Not feeling quite as amazing as a few days ago, but things are still pretty darn good. Had three AF days in a row without much problem. Last night, I decided to have a beer and the first one tasted so good I thought I was in trouble. Waited nearly another hour and a half before I opened the next one and still, it tasted really good. I was half preparing to have 4 or 5 when bam, I was done. Two was it. I didn't feel great afterward. It gave me a bit of a headache. I think if I had stopped after the first one, I wouldn't have had much negative effect. Good to remember. Hopefully. Amazing to me that I used to drink 14 or so in a day and feel just fine. Not sure how I managed that.

I am at 40 mg a day and the alcohol at this point is manageable, but I am not indifferent. Guess I will continue to go up for a while to see if I can hit the switch. Curious for those who did hit their switch, how many continue to drink on occassion and what does that look like. I know some have choosen not to drink at all. Is that due to indifference, or belief that drinking will still not be controllable? I had thought I would go for AB, but that seems really rooted in my years of AA thinking. I have read a lot of the old posts, and am realizing that if this in fact is a "cure" then the AA model gets tossed. There is a lot to be thrown out, for me. Like the whole thing that those who don't get well are incapable of "rigorous honesty." Blech. That one always seemed so flippin' self-rightous.

Thoughts from the HELPFUL folks are much appreciated. I know everyone has different opinions, and I am open to hearing them. Just not interested in hearing from any mean fuckers. Thanks!

[RedThread12]

Ready, set, stop!

Hey, dun! Congratulations! Pretty impressive results with a pretty low dose. Feels awesome to have a couple of beers and STOP, eh?!?!

To respond to your question, I started bac in Oct. '09, and quit drinking alcoholically that day. From all-day drinking to 2 glasses of wine that night. Finished. I continued with that for a while - never more than 2 - then did 60 or so AF days because I wanted to check out the "out-patient" portion of a really "famous" treatment center, and they required 30 days sober before entering.

I didn't drink continuously from my early party days. I was free from all intoxicants for over a decade before I fell into a wine bottle. I was fortunate, in that I was comfortable living without AL. When bac relieved me from drinking against my will, I didn't need to "prove" anything to myself about being AF for long periods, so there was no angst or quandary when I discovered that I can drink kind of "normal." But my life isn't "normal," so I put AL away completely for months at a time; and at times drink a glass or two of wine, once or twice a week.

My life is loaded with what people call major stressors. Step-dad dieing while his kids strip him of his finances and (probably) robbing my mother; mother with a bizarre illness, losing everything faster and faster; construction on my house; death of my beloved aunt; self-employed, to boot! I think my maintenance dose of 120mg back is what allows me to deal with all of this with a pretty balanced mind, and good health.

When circumstances are less demanding, I lower my maintenance dose. I've never felt a "craving" to drink, but I have felt the beginnings of anxiety bubble-up, and take that as a sign to go up, a bit. I did do the AA thing for a while. Even tried to talk to people who were (and likely still are) struggling. No. Go. No one wanted to hear about a "real alcoholic" who can have a drink or two and stop. Because it's not interesting. Zero water tastes better!!

But be careful and keep reading - lots of stories from people who "overdrank" their initial relief. Hard, hard row-to-hoe, it seems.

Best of luck,

Helpful Fucker (I hope)

[Colin]

Ready, set, stop!

dundrinkn;1467202 wrote: I have read a lot of the old posts, and am realizing that if this in fact is a "cure" then the AA model gets tossed. There is a lot to be thrown out, for me. Like the whole thing that those who don't get well are incapable of "rigorous honesty." Blech. That one always seemed so flippin' self-rightous.

Some here believe that AA helps but they seem to be in a small minority. If in any doubt at all just dump AA completely. AA is part of the boozer's problem not part of the solution.

[COSGringo]

Ready, set, stop!

I don't think AA is a problem if you don't over think it and go for support. I think it's good to have a physical support group with the meds.

If that AA doesn't fit, there are usually others. If AA doesn't fit there are other groups. I used to go to a very good group that was no AA at all. Just a support group for people that had addiction issues. We met at a psychologists office once a week for a $5 donation if you had it.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Ready, set, stop!

Hey dun!
I think the 12 step program is anathema to health and well being. And I love AA. Go figure. It took me a very long time to get over everything I learned in the program. A baclo-eon. Then I got really really pissed off about it. Then I got over that too.

I drink when, what and how much I want. Which is rarely, usually red wine and a glass or two. There've been times when it's more often or more (or margaritas!) but there's never been a time I really really wanted a drink against my will. Almost impossible to explain but it is true. I don't crave alcohol at all ever. My husband (almost 2 years for him) got very very drunk and drove home a while ago. So basically I'm not suggesting its 1. A good idea to drink 2. It's not as though it stops the stupid button. Drinking shots w the boys is not recommended. If you want to stay alive and/or married.

I'm actually just posting because i want to be a helpful fucker too. Redthread shouldn't be the only one in the club! I'm on my phone and you seem to be doing just fine so I'm outta here til later.

[StuckinLA]

Ready, set, stop!

The 12 steps are a real problem. Or, actually, just Steps 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, and 7 are the problem. The rest, in my opinion, could be really super helpful.

Because bac will make you stop drinking, but it won't do anything else. It won't help you (me) figure out how to be sober, and enjoy living sober. And it if you don't over-think AA there's a lot of wisdom, and humor, in those rooms. And sometimes even decent people who genuinely want to help.

One of those AA clich?s is "This program works a lot better if you don't drink." And can you imagine what the AA program might be like if everyone in the room were cured of their cravings for alcohol?

[EDIT: But RedT's absolutely right. There's nothing interesting about a cure. There's so much disgust and condescension toward drunks, and at the same time we're culturally kind of programmed to think of recovery in these spiritual, heroic terms so that, when someone does get sober there's a very-real romantic struggle involved. Take that away, and what are we left with? We--and I mean culturally--just don't know what to do with it, and so we shut down because it doesn't fit. This is all just my opinion, of course. But I think in a lot of ways bac is seriously disruptive and devastating to so many deeply-held beliefs that, while it will probably gain ground as a treatment, it's going to take a long long long time for everyone's views on addiction to shift even a little bit.]

[Otter]

Ready, set, stop!

Baclofen works by "filling up" receptors. Imagine you have a glass which you keep filling with booze. If you fill it with something else, you can't fit any alcohol in it. Once you fill your receptors with enough baclofen you can't fill it with alcohol, or at least your receptors don't mind if you don't fill them up any more. If you do drink at that point it doesn't have the same effect. That is why abstinence isn't important in the process.
In fact, it is counterproductive because you will just end up craving and causing yourself anxiety feeling you are failing.

Good luck, by the way.

[dundrinkn]

Ready, set, stop!

Thanks to all the "helpful fuckers." I am cranky today. Really irritated. I may up my dosage today to 45 or 50 mg. Have been at 40 for 4 or 5 days, and today is the first day I don't feel zen. I had two beers last night. Was AF the day before. I was trying to put two or more days together, but too much kids sporting events did my nerves in. Glad to see Bart Man back on bac. Hang in there. And GG didn't go off the deep end with her own anxiety the other night. You all give me hope. I am just starting to put together some of the posters with their stories. The info on this site is awesome. I hope we can all refrain from engaging with trolls. That whole situation really pisses me off. But I am irritated today...

[dundrinkn]

Ready, set, stop!

Another day, another 50 mg of bac. I have lost the irritable feeling. Been pretty bitchy, however. I am two days AF and working on the third. In the last week, I have had a total of 4 beers. Not in a single sitting either. This is nothing short of a fucking miracle. I am not dazed and confused at work... my job requires I stay awake and remain alert, coherent and articulate. So far so good.

At this point I am wondering if I will need to continue to increase my dosage to keep this effect. Will just go with the flow. I am in no rush. I have spent many years getting to this point.

[kronkcarr]

Ready, set, stop!

Hey, dundrinkn,

I figured I'd bring our chat over to your posts. Yes, we do sound similar. Hahaha! There's hope for us! I thought I might be the poster girl for LDB too and then I got compulsive--check email, check Facebook etc and I did have thoughts of picking up a bottle of wine and my dr allowed me to go up to 80 mgs/day. He's not comfortable letting me go higher and wants me to taper down. Enter liquid bac. I like it better than the pills but I want a script because I travel overseas and need the pills inflight. I'll probably get with Dr Levin at some point. I'm at 100 mgs/day at 2 1/2 months on bac.

We are opposite in one way. I have no desire to do much more physically than walk my dog a few times a day. Maybe I need to crank it up a notch! I have lost 11 lbs since bac. I'm drinking La Croix and chewing gum like crazy but my food tastes have changed. Oh, yeah, and how many calories are in a bottle of wine?!

I was always going, going away from where I was not necessarily to the actual place I was going. But that doesn't quite sound like you. Hmmm... For some reason I feel a kinship with you--maybe it's because the kid events can drive you nuts too!!

Hang tough, keep posting and be in touch,

kronkcarr

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Ready, set, stop!

Irritation is a very common side effect of new sobriety.

Some say, and in my experience, it's a side effect of life. :H

Happy day to both of you!

[dundrinkn]

Ready, set, stop!

Hello All. I am into my fourth week on Bac. At 60 mg. Last week I put together 6 AF days in a row. This week hasn't been as great. Drank 3 beers on Saturday, AF Sunday, 3 on Monday and 5 beers last night. I haven't had that much in one day since I started Bac. I drank them over the course of 5 hours, so I actually didn't end up with a hangover. I did enjoy them all. Bummer. Will try and put together some AF days here. And will also up the Bac to 70mg in a few days. Then on to 80mg over the weekend. Have been sick and also had a sick kid and I have always drank a lot on sick days. Maybe just an old habit. Not sure. Still much less than I used to down. But thought I was further away from it then I obviously am. Oh well. Hope everyone has a good day.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Ready, set, stop!

Hey, Dun!

Don't despair! It really does ebb and flow (lame pun sort of intended!). Even the switch can be less of a lightning bolt and more like a gradual realization that sometime in the near past one stopped wanting to drink.

For me the Aha! moment was less of an AHA! and more of a "I just don't feel like drinking tonight." It wasn't until later that I started to actually believe I just didn't want to drink anymore, period. The wait sucks, but it's still absolutely worth it!

So pat yourself on the back for the AF time, and keep in mind that time is as much a factor as everything else. And of course, jkttdp!

Hope you and yours are feeling better!

[dundrinkn]

Ready, set, stop!

I have been on bac for 5 months. I am pretty sure I hit my switch in March. Not sure at what dosage. I was up around 120 for a bit, and thought I bumped up to 140. Turns out it was 160. (Taking liquid bac when you are altered with SEs can sometimes prove too much in terms of calculating dosage. Ha!) Wow, was I tired. I titrated down to 140, and then to 90 where I am today. I did this by 10 every 4 days. I was having the nerve/skin/leg pain. I still am when I bend my legs, though it has lessened.

I am not completely AF, though I am not drinking against my will. I think I've read that coming down, even slowly, can cause depression. Well, I hope that is true. I have been really depressed. And my thinking has been distorted. I am NOT suicidal. However, my thoughts are strange and morbid. And I have really longed for the desire to drink -- just so I could feel something that was motivating me to do anything other than feel like this.

I was going to go down another 10 or 20. Trying to find the place where my legs don't hurt, but still not craving. However, I am wondering if I should just stay put for a while and see if my mood won't sort itself out. I feel a little less dark and twisty today. Finally got motivated to write this...a good sign. Advice and experiences welcome. Much thanks in advance.