Ready, set, stop!

[Spiritfree]

Anne Lamott has a post up today for Worldwide Gratitude day. It's worth a read. If you're on Facebook you can find it there. I have to admit, I am not great at the practice of gratitude. But I might give it a mindful go. Here are some of the things that I liked:

"When we feel it, or even walk with it for part of every day, gratitude is a magnetic energy that draws people to us, because it is the most wonderful and attractive of emotions. When you are with someone who has developed the habit of gratitude, you SO want what they have. They are not grasping for more. They are savoring, shaking their heads slightly with the most quiet wonder. Gratitude contains a heightened and amazed realization of how much goodness is marbled into our strange and sometimes hard, annoying lives. This catches us by surprise, as if we are children, and a sudden breeze is playing with our spirits, as if with paper planes, lifting us, restoring our sense of buoyancy, where before there was the opposite — the worried, the trudge, endless calculations and scheming, numbness."

"Wow, you think: what's the catch? No catch. No other shoe to drop. God only has one shoe. However, if you want to hold on to this warm feeling, you have to give it away, by passing it along to others. If you want to have grateful loving feelings, which is what heaven is like, you need to do loving things and help others experience life's capacity for goodness and maybe even grace."

Hope everyone can find some gratitude today and feel this, then give it away.

Dunn -I am grateful that I read this post that you made on 09-21-2015.
I have never seen you make a post like this, but I am dang sure glad that I came across it today. It is my opinion that gratitude and true humility are required ingredients to one who ever gets happily and freely sober. Medications certainly can help one to a certain point, but gratitude and humility end up being the keys to allow one to be truly free -or at least this has been my experience.

I HOPE that others really do take the time to read the words in your post!
--sf--

Edit: If you would ever even consider even doing so, I would really appreciate reading your gratitude posts on the 'General Discussion" part of the forum.

[Otter]

Dunn -I am grateful that I read this post that you made on 09-21-2015.

I have never seen you make a post like this, but I am dang sure glad that I came across it today. It is my opinion that gratitude and true humility are required ingredients to one who ever gets happily and freely sober. Medications certainly can help one to a certain point, but gratitude and humility end up being the keys to allow one to be truly free -or at least this has been my experience.



I HOPE that others really do take the time to read the words in your post!

--sf--



Edit: If you would ever even consider even doing so, I would really appreciate reading your gratitude posts on the 'General Discussion" part of the forum.

Here is SF admitting that "medications can help" but they aren't the ansser. He hasn't read Ameisen's book, doesn't have a clue about how baclofen works and doesn't care. He told me that he doesn't think baclofen is any different from any drug, there is nothing special about it and now we find out he had stopped drinking when he started taking it. So, he doesn't suffer from the anxiety dysphoria which Ameisen speaks of which drove him to experiment with baclofen.



Your posts are a perfect example of why baclofen needs its own forum, because you are posting information which could result in people not getting the help they need, not getting the medication they need and being sent down the wrong road and ending up worse than they would be if they got the best advice.



What you don't take on board is that baclofen use became popular here because it worked, and because a lot of very intelligent people explained here exactly why it worked. That has helped doctors and researchers viewing this forum and lurkers to further investigation into this drug's effects and help in recovery.



Why you are wasting your time is that most of these people still are around and many are just watching you do what you are doing. Do you really think you are going to change the views of gastroenterologists who use baclofen to treat people facing terminal illnesses? Is that something you think would be valuable? Do you want these doctors to heed the advice of you, a Certified Management Accountant, and ignore the results they are getting by using baclofen? You aren't qualified by experience or education to be giving advice on drugs to seriously ill people. If you are doing this for money or because you think you are helping people, you are either a sick or seriously deluded character.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Otter, I have to say that I am already exhausted by this personal crusade you've undertaken. Not that I don't understand it. I do. But it's not going to work. You can't out-troll a troll.

Which I wrote on my own thread. It's clear to me that you aren't reading the threads and you aren't offering support and you aren't offering information. You are just following spiritfullofit around and bashing him. It doesn't matter that the bashing is deserved. It denigrates the forum.

Guess what that makes you? You're trolling. Please stop. At least on the threads where we participate and offer support and information. You guys can keep your feud going on other threads.

All my best, Otter.
Ne


That said, this is true:

What you don't take on board is that baclofen use became popular here because it worked, and because a lot of very intelligent people explained here exactly why it worked. That has helped doctors and researchers viewing this forum and lurkers to further investigation into this drug's effects and help in recovery.

[Spiritfree]

Otter, I have to say that I am already exhausted by this personal crusade you've undertaken. Not that I don't understand it. I do. But it's not going to work. You can't out-troll a troll.

Which I wrote on my own thread. It's clear to me that you aren't reading the threads and you aren't offering support and you aren't offering information. You are just following spiritfullofit around and bashing him. It doesn't matter that the bashing is deserved. It denigrates the forum.

Guess what that makes you? You're trolling. Please stop. At least on the threads where we participate and offer support and information. You guys can keep your feud going on other threads.

All my best, Otter.
Ne


That said, this is true:

Bump

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Dun, I can't read some of the posts above, thank goodness.

I hope you'll ignore it and take back your own thread and post an update, here or somewhere else, sometime soon. Missing you.

[Otter]

Otter, I have to say that I am already exhausted by this personal crusade you've undertaken. Not that I don't understand it. I do. ...
Guess what that makes you? You're trolling. Please stop. At least on the threads where we participate and offer support and information. You guys can keep your feud going on other threads.

All my best, Otter.
Ne


That said, this is true:

Quote Originally Posted by Otter View Post
What you don't take on board is that baclofen use became popular here because it worked, and because a lot of very intelligent people explained here exactly why it worked. That has helped doctors and researchers viewing this forum and lurkers to further investigation into this drug's effects and help in recovery.

I accept everything you say.

I'll add a few things...by the way SF, when you quote, please include the entire quote, not just the bit you like...

I came here years back because I was in a shocking psychological state. I came across to a lot of people as a snob, arrogant...you name it. I was desperate and coming here took my mind off things which were truly awful. I didn't know how I would make it through. The result was that I was put on ignore because I upset people. I wanted baclofen to work and I wasn't going to have it any other way...that irritated people. I wish it hadn't but I was in hell.

But guess what...Ameisen was right.

So SF/SW comes on here after a two week detox, doesn't read the book and starts pursuing me via MWO, my sites, my email, Skype, business propositions...

Maybe you can understand how truly and deeply disgusted I am with him for doing this.

[dundrinkn]

Hi All. So here's my update on my own thread. I've managed to horn in on Lis's and Ne's thread, neglecting my own. So here it 'tis.

A few weeks ago I reached indifference. I had a few days that were actually quite blissful. Now while I am still indifferent, I am also just back in reality and being me in reality. Which is groovy, but it isn't blissful. Ya know?

I am getting close to "counting" months of AF time. Past days, and into weeks. Staring at multiple months soon. I am also trying not to really count time as I don't plan to stay completely AF. I am not going down on my switch dose/doses which is 100mg bac and 1,000 gabapentin. When I've switched in the past I've gone down fairly quickly because of leg pain. Then when I drink something, I tend to fall back into the drinking groove. The nerve pain in my legs is on and off. I use extra gabapentin when it flares up and this seems to help. I seem to have switched this time at a much lower dose due to adding the gabapentin. That is very, very nice.

My mood is decent for the most part. I am getting outside more often for walks. Have taken on more writing work outside of my job, and have been feeling pretty connected to the people in my life and to my spiritual practice. For the last few weeks, (maybe three?), I haven't been yearning for alcohol or feeling like I'm missing out. It crosses my mind occasionally, but with no real "blip" on my radar. Certainly no reactivity of any kind.

From past experience, I know I'm indifferent and see no need to "test" it. I am just not fearful or vigilant about not drinking. I've read a lot again on this board about AA. I sat in the rooms for nearly 10 years. The premise of AA is that alcohol is not the root of the problem, but that we suffer from a spiritual disease. For me this is utter nonsense. I know myself really, really well. I've had mucho therapy and have spent decades on a spiritual path. Alcohol is my problem. For me, baclofen fixes it -- chemically. Baclofen frees me from having to fight the disease, fear the disease, or be consumed by the disease -- either from drinking, or not drinking. It all just becomes a big neutral. So from that place of neutral, I get to decide what to do, what to think, what to feel. For me, even when I removed alcohol from the equation (like the 10 years I was in AA) I was still be driven by the fear of drinking. The fear that something was wrong with me. And believing that if I was not constantly on guard and forever vigilant about "not taking the first drink" that I would slip down the slippery slope and end up lost forever. Yea... all that's bullshit.

So for all the newbies on the board, just keep taking the pills. For the vast majority, it'll work if you let it. And I really, sincerely hope you do and that it does work for you soon. Because when it does, it is really a nice place to be. Free.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Man, that was a great post. Thanks, Dun. Great to hear the good news, too. Congrats.

[Lostinspace]

That’s so great to hear, dun. Congrats on being free! I’m so glad the gabapentin is mostly continuing to work for your leg pain and that you can take extra as needed when your usual dose isn't quite cutting it. You sound really engaged in other areas of your life, too. That’s so important for well-being. Good news all around

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Yesterday I spent several hours talking to a guy who is on a spiritual journey. I'll have to expound more in the morning, but it made me wonder what's going on in his personal world, you know?

He clearly doesn't have our disease, because I didn't find myself overly attracted to him. (Joking! Sort of. ha!)

I'll expound more in the morning, but it made me think of you and your post.

xx

[Otter]

bump

[dundrinkn]

Hello all. I am reading threads and keeping up. I am still not drinking. I am at 80mg of BAC and 1200 of GabaP. I actually like the Gaba quite a bit, but it doesn't take but a few days for me to get "tolerant" and then it seems to lose its effectiveness (for lessen nerve pain and also chilling me the fuck out!). I feel like I could take handfuls of the stuff. Probably not a good idea. So I go down for a while and suffer leg pain and anxiety, and then go back up. Ahhh. The relief. But then it's lost. I figure it's best to go down and suffer a few days rather than continue to go up an up and up. I've read about some pretty serious withdrawal issues once you get up too high. Any thoughts about this NE or anyone who's done research on GabaP?

So here is the latest whacky thing I'm trying. Floating in a sensory depravation tank. Holy crap tard. I got into the thick goo and my mind was churning. I lost all sense of my body, but I could not get my mind to stop! But then once I got to my car to leave -- I couldn't move. I was so chilled out it was freakin' amazing. There's an article on Time.com about some research they've done on the effectiveness of floating to treat PTSD and anxiety. They've done MRIs on people while floating and afterward and it seems to have a similar effect to benzos. It also lowers stress hormones. If you have access to a float center near you, I highly recommend it. I'm going to go once a week for a while and see what happens. Maybe it will cure me of all my ills. Or at least chill me out to the point that I don't care as much that I'm crazy. Ha!

Oh, and the dog trainer has worked freakin' magic! We've done a doggie bootcamp and my dogs are completely chilled out too. She said we were an "unstable pack". That is an understatement. So we instituted some extreme measures and reset things. I AM THE ALPHA! Ha! At least I've convinced my dogs of it so they've relaxed.

Thanks to all of you that are fighting the good fight and beating down the nasty little fucker that won't go away on this site. Surely he is drinking, no? I can't imagine a sober person continuing to come on here and try and stir things up like he does. It is the strangest thing I think I've ever witnessed.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

(I went off about the dog training thing, but I'll take that offline.) Great news, though, that they're better behaved. Mine is not too, too bad, and it is a source of stress, still.



As for the Gabapentin, I recently read that 1800mg is the dose to achieve. I can't remember where and in terms of what, but I know that's a very reasonable dose. Seriously.



It confuses me why you think going up and down is a good idea. If withdrawals are the concern, then, like baclofen, you'll have to titrate down in a reasonable way. You're already going to have to do that. Going up and down doesn't change that fact. All it does is fuck with your brain chemistry. I think the only way to avoid having to reasonably withdrawal from a medication is to abstain for it a couple of days or weeks or whatever. (Withdrawal, when it's handled poorly, sucks no matter what you're taking. Ya' know what I'm saying? You take enough cold medicine for long enough and it'll fuck you up when you stop.)



Man, I have a whole long tangent about dependence, benzos and medications in general that I think is really relevant but will make this post seem about 7 pages long.



Take a lesson from Lis' experience with Seroquel. It worked at a certain dose. Then it didn't work, so her doctor prescribed a little more. Which worked for a while, until it didn't. Then her doc prescribed a little more. And that worked and continues to work.



Same with me and the antid's I'm taking. Worked a little. Add more, worked better. Added a little more and an additional drug and voila! I'm acing my classes, hosting Thanksgiving and all around kicking ass. (At least from my humble perspective. )



Why not find a dose that works. Not just that works for a week or two, but that actually works? It may not work forever (it won't, nothing does) but it may work for the next year or two.



Also, did I mention that withdrawals suck no matter what they're from? So don't withdraw. You know?



You have the added bonus of taking a med that also seems to affect alcohol craving (at the 1800 dose) and I don't know why you wouldn't just latch on to that.



Please keep in mind that when I got here 5 years ago I was firmly anti-drug/anti-medication. I have since gone to nursing school, which expanded my horizons so that I can include medications (and maybe even some "drugs") into how people get well.



Have I made my point? Am I lecturing? Am I full of it? Feel free to fill me in. ha



Congrats on the AF time. And the rest. Keep doing the next right thing (which is what it feels like you're doing) and keep in touch, dammit.



xx

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Have you tried taking B6? I'm studying for an exam on unrelated material and there was a recommendation to prescribe B6 with a drug that caused peripheral neuritis. No harm no foul in giving it a shot?

[Spiritfree]

So here is the latest whacky thing I'm trying. Floating in a sensory depravation tank. Holy crap tard. I got into the thick goo and my mind was churning. I lost all sense of my body, but I could not get my mind to stop! But then once I got to my car to leave -- I couldn't move. I was so chilled out it was freakin' amazing. There's an article on Time.com about some research they've done on the effectiveness of floating to treat PTSD and anxiety. They've done MRIs on people while floating and afterward and it seems to have a similar effect to benzos. It also lowers stress hormones. If you have access to a float center near you, I highly recommend it. I'm going to go once a week for a while and see what happens. Maybe it will cure me of all my ills. Or at least chill me out to the point that I don't care as much that I'm crazy. Ha!

Oh, and the dog trainer has worked freakin' magic! We've done a doggie bootcamp and my dogs are completely chilled out too. She said we were an "unstable pack". That is an understatement. So we instituted some extreme measures and reset things. I AM THE ALPHA! Ha! At least I've convinced my dogs of it so they've relaxed.

Thanks to all of you that are fighting the good fight and beating down the nasty little fucker that won't go away on this site. Surely he is drinking, no? I can't imagine a sober person continuing to come on here and try and stir things up like he does. It is the strangest thing I think I've ever witnessed.

Hi Dun -as you floated out to your car to "DRIVE", did you even consider not driving and calling a float boat taxi? I have got to look up the float boat centers -now. Thanks for the info/post.

Dun's words:"I got into the thick goo and my mind was churning. I lost all sense of my body, but I could not get my mind to stop! But then once I got to my car to leave -- I couldn't move. I was so chilled out it was freakin' amazing."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkudV3McZxI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Yt5XkNadTE

Edit: Dun -these deprivation tanks really do seem awesome. Again, thanks for posting.