Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

[terryk]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

Xadrian;1466025 wrote: I was thinking about his nickname.
Maybe I am wrong and his nickname hasn't to do anything with his brain volume. Maybe it is just one of his 4 personalities ventilating using this nick.
It makes perfect sense!
I wonder what the nicknames of his other 3 personalities are.

Ne/Neva Eva;1466060 wrote: Chaos, desperados, and Golfmonster

A troll with an agenda that seems to be the simple thing of discouraging people from using baclofen. The names may change. The object stays the same. It's very sad and confusing.
Onequart sounds a lot like "BillF" (who tagged-teamed with GolfMonster when GM first appeared on MWO in: https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...led-62643.html page 2 - Coincidence?). Before BillF was BillF, he was "dustbin" and "arsenic" (who were both banned in the same night for taunting another forum member)

Here are some of his greatest hits (many of the offending original posts have been deleted):

BillF;1298125 wrote: Just to clarify, in studies, 50%+ of the placebo group get better, by whatever criteria used in the particular study (abstinence, safe-drinking levels, days AF,etc.)

BillF;1368845 wrote: Anything works. But not for everyone.

Vitamin C + selinium + beer works! But not for everyone.

For anyone with an average IQ, the claims are ridiculous.BillF;1297563 wrote: I am glad that baclofen worked for you, just like TSM, or vitamins, or AA worked for many others. XX works for some, prob. not for everyone, and there are Googled studies about it.

BillF;1297529 wrote: What is the cognitive cost for those on HDB? Can you guys take an online IQ test or psychomotor test? (I know they are scientifically invalid.)

dustbin;1279422 wrote:

I should add: the responses by Terry K and others on chronic high-dose baclofen are not exactly normal. Can you guys take formal psychological tests (IQ, psychomotor, etc.) to assure us that long-term baclofen at 200mg+ are not cognitively detrimental?

dustbin;1279418 wrote: OT: the logistics of this forum sucks big time. I would contribute towards hiring a real IT person to bring the site up to 2012 (or even 2009) standards.

arsenic;1267420 wrote: I wrote a long, detailed reply, but it got lost in the posting. WTF, the administrators here really should hire some IT guy to fix the logistics of this site.

Basically, as a lurker here researching medical approaches to alcoholism, I think that [Name redacted]doesn't know what he is talking about. I mean - vitamin D, demylination, amygdala (duh: all behaviors go thru the brain),
[Name redacted], you are spending way too much time scanning the Net for research reports with no clinical applications, and coming up with multiple tin-foil headgear theories. You are scientifically illiterate, and even the laymen here can call you out on it.

You are correct, though, in that these are mostly support forums. That's good, since social support is important in treatment. Eyeballing the posters, it seems like less than 10 (maybe 5) are doing well (average 2/day and 5 days/week or less). It is possible that all the other many successes stop posting and went on with their lives. Also possible is that the non-posters quit because baclofen didn't work. To the true believers, it didn't work because they didn't follow protocol or because they didn't tough out SE's - rather circular reasoning.

Look, nobody knows whether high-dose baclofen works or not long-term (>1 year). It works for some percentage (25%) just like any other remedy (AA, multiple vitamins, doing nothing at all). The nice thing about an unproven therapy is that people can feel on the cutting-edge, defying the Man, and the close camaraderie of a gnostic fellowship.

BillF;1298295 wrote: Congratulations on your success!

I have a curiosity about the cognitive effects of high-dose baclofen. Can you take some online IQ and psycho-motor tests? This is of course completely unscientific, esp. if there are no pre-baclofen results. (Baseline IQ should be 110 based on college attendance).

Don't post them. Just let us know about your general impressions.
Thanks.

BillF;1368807 wrote:

The way HDB is right now, there is no way to test it. The method says there is no upper limit as long as you go up "slowly". At some point you will be psychotic and/or retching your guts out (thus dropping out due to side-effects), or so stoned that you won't drink, or eat, or work. BUT, you won't be craving alcohol.

Thus, the success rate (discounting the weakling drop-outs) will always be 100%.

BillF;1298242 wrote: I don't get why the meds group have this paranoia. AFAIK, Golf is a new poster, a doc with access to real meds, who posted his experiences with various meds. He opined, based on literature review and medical expertise, that nothing works well. Is that a surprise? [...]

[Name redacted], I've never talked to you before. You sure don't want to hear the medical literature on Antabuse.

-tk

[Greg]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

I'm pretty sure that before he was BillF, he was BillP.

[bleep]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

Man, I was just going to repeat the oft quoted mantra of "Stop feeding the troll!", when terryk came and tore his throat out...

My personal opinion is that everyone, trolls included, overestimate the importance of the trolls comments. There are 100's of thousands of comments on this site, with the trolls comments taking up next to none of that space, in the grand scheme it just disappears.

If you think of it that way, it becomes much easier to ignore the dude. People won't get misinformed, because it's one comment among the millions.

[Otter]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

I am told (reliably) that it isn't Bill F although it sounds a lot like him. Anyone want to step forward and explain this? Someone going to a treatment forum and spreading lies about a successful treatment should be strung up from the nearest tree IMHO (figuratively speaking). It is sick and twisted and the sooner they get that message the better.

[onequart]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

I am honored: so many slams, so little time! It's like the wrath of Sea Org cometh my way.

I understand that the entire psychiatric community is deluded, except for the French and one guy in Chicago with 95% success rate and no side effects. Why won't the medical community accept bac, especially high dose bac, as a treatment?

Some here have mistaken concepts about science. The claim that X work for some, but not all, is meaningless. For example, there are many, many AA participants who have achieved success, yet many here - including myself - doubt that it does much. The evidence is that the majority of alcohol abusers.dependents get better with no meds, no meetings, nothing. Do you have a med or treatment that does better? Prove it.

It is curious how so many have circled the wagons, including those who stopped bac because of intolerable side effects. Their feeling is that "Of course bac works, I just couldn't deal with the SE that one time.". Most of the posters here seem highly intelligent, and should be moderately scientifically literate. But, when it involves something they have involved so much time and energy, their analytical ability goes out the window. It is like a religion.

We are really talking past each other here. Good luck, all.

[onequart]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

Otter;1466118 wrote: You can take your double blind, triple deaf, stupid effing trials and shove them up your posterior orifice.

You can now see visually what baclofen does so why waste everybody's time with your stupid inane posts. GO AWAY, but before you do, watch this and learn something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WXxxcElL7Cs[/video]]HBO The Science of Relapse - YouTube

YOU and your alter egos are part of the toxic addictive environment.

Baclofen changed my life. Grow a brain and figure out how to use it properly and stop trying to kill people through ignorance like the rest of the insensitive, ignorant people who JUST DON'T CARE.

Wow! The vitriol against even the mildest doubters. This from someone who posts he does not take bac and was never an alcoholic.

I just read a book about Scientology (prob. still on the NYT best seller list), and some of you really seem to be on the same level as grasping level-3's.

No double-blind studies? Tsk, tsk. Because it works? Sorry, that doesn't fly.

And no, I am not golf master, for all you conspiracy-theorists.

[terryk]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

onequart;1466831 wrote: Wow! The vitriol against even the mildest doubters. This from someone who posts he does not take bac and was never an alcoholic.

I just read a book about Scientology (prob. still on the NYT best seller list), and some of you really seem to be on the same level as grasping level-3's.

No double-blind studies? Tsk, tsk. Because it works? Sorry, that doesn't fly.

And no, I am not golf master, for all you conspiracy-theorists.

Right, and before there was photographic evidence from orbiting satellites that the Earth was indeed a sphere, ships sailed off the edge of the ocean.....

Maybe I'm not a scientist, but I know that I haven't been drunk in over 2 years....and here's the thing - I'm not abstaining, I'll have a beer or 2 every few weeks. That's something I was never able to do before baclofen. Not by a longshot. And no matter how much you refuse to believe it, my mental faculties are quite intact (and I trust them). It could be that baclofen just does work.

I didn't think that you were *definitely* "GolfMonster," but I guess I'm right about you being "BillF" and that you were banned as "arsenic" and "dustbin" for some really malignant behavior here.

With a new name like "onequart" and the belief that more than 50% of alcoholics will recover with no treatment at all, you must been in a very sorry state. Good odds and still you can't beat them, because you *very obviously* haven't recovered. At least not in a healthy way that would enable you to "get a life" that doesn't include projecting your anger and frustration on people here.

Good luck to you. -tk

[onequart]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

terryk;1466891 wrote: Right, and before there was photographic evidence from orbiting satellites that the Earth was indeed a sphere, ships sailed off the edge of the ocean.....

Maybe I'm not a scientist, but I know that I haven't been drunk in over 2 years....and here's the thing - I'm not abstaining, I'll have a beer or 2 every few weeks. That's something I was never able to do before baclofen. Not by a longshot. And no matter how much you refuse to believe it, my mental faculties are quite intact (and I trust them). It could be that baclofen just does work.


I haven't a drink in 2 years either. Congrats to both of us.


I didn't think that you were *definitely* "GolfMonster," but I guess I'm right about you being "BillF" and that you were banned as "arsenic" and "dustbin" for some really malignant behavior here.

I don't know what you are talking about. It's hard to hide identities on the Internet. I am tired of conspiracy-theorists conflaging all non-bac-enthusiasts into one person. Just for the heck of it, it took me 20 and 30 minutes to find the real names and addresses of 2 of the stalwarts of this forum. Why don't you guys do the same and stop with the conspiracy stuff? It is creepy that you semi-stalk without the technical ability to go all the way and just post names.

With a new name like "onequart" and the belief that more than 50% of alcoholics will recover with no treatment at all, you must been in a very sorry state. Good odds and still you can't beat them, because you *very obviously* haven't recovered. At least not in a healthy way that would enable you to "get a life" that doesn't include projecting your anger and frustration on people here.

"onequart" has nothing to do with alcohol. I was having big problems with oil consumption on my car and the dealer's inability to fix it.

Good luck to you. -tk

Good luck to you too.

[terryk]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

onequart;1466946 wrote: I don't know what you are talking about. It's hard to hide identities on the Internet. I am tired of conspiracy-theorists conflaging all non-bac-enthusiasts into one person. Just for the heck of it, it took me 20 and 30 minutes to find the real names and addresses of 2 of the stalwarts of this forum. Why don't you guys do the same and stop with the conspiracy stuff?

Hmmmmm. That's funny, because I was on the forum when dustbin, and then arsenic, was taunting another member with that information. I was one of the people flagging those posts.

-tk

[onequart]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

[QUOTE=terryk;1466954]Hmmmmm. That's funny, because I was on the forum when dustbin, and then arsenic, was taunting another member with that information. I was one of the people

??? It just takes an internet-savvy person minutes to trace most posters, if he/she cares. Heck, just give 20 dollars to the 12 year old kid next door with the thick glasses if you are too lazy to do it yourself.

You present yourself as some expert by dragging up Google articles and old posts. You have also insinuated that golf master=me=BillSomeInitial=some other people. Why don't you dig up their info to prove any of them - um, me - are the same person?

Go ahead. Some of you guys are just plain nuts.

[Otter]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

If you aren't interested in helping people who are using this medication then why don't you just go away. Your views are not appreciated here. We all know about side effects and we also know from personal experience that the drug works. It is unfortunate that it didn't work for you but you appear to be fine. Good, now leave us alone.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

One person or three. Who cares? The message is exactly the same: Don't try this because I say it doesn't work! I have no options for you, no support to give, but it doesn't work.

Despite the fact that the numbers and the science tell a completely different story. The science, you say, doesn't back it up. You're wrong. It's not even a matter of interpretation. The fact is that the science backs up baclofen as a remarkably successful treatment for addiction.

Make no mistake, whoever you are, what you write is wrong. It's not just wrong, it's malicious. I'd go so far as to call the behavior of anyone who discourages and disparages people for trying to change their lives as evil.

Which is why it is so difficult not to respond. The personal attacks on people are annoying and mean. But the lies, the subterfuge, the cloud of misinformation that are perpetuated by you and the likes of you, make it impossible not to refute what you write. Simply because it's wrong.

And I don't care who you are.

[Xadrian]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

onequart;1466824 wrote: The evidence is that the majority of alcohol abusers.dependents get better with no meds, no meetings, nothing.

Where's your evidence? Proof it!

[Otter]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

Actually, that statement is inaccurate. The rate for spontaneous recovery from alcoholism without intervention is about 5% which is the same level as recovery through AA involvement.

Then there is the point made by Joan Larson and Bill Wilson that these people are not "recovered" at all, but go through life nursing an illness which doesn't go away because they stopped drinking. OQ, you really should get your facts straight, or better, just don't bother.

[RedThread12]

Baclofen nearly destroyed my life

Dear OneQuart: How could you have been on the forum with all those other folks when you just joined this month? Riddle me this, bat(wo)man, and I can get a handle on figuring out a lot more. Thanks in advance. RedThread12