My BAC story

[Tallulah]

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this...

I'm at 280 mgs and have never been able to hit 300. I'm on several other medications due to Chronic Lyme and the symptoms it causes (depression, anxiety, attention) and Dr. L has looked at and changed what he felt are interactions. In all honesty, I don't think there's a database out there that can truly detect the myriad of medications and how they affect any individual person with HDB. Dr. L also thinks that I need to go higher and that it will eventually work for me. His word has been golden to me but I'm now questioning his advice.

The Lyme is in my CNS and it and possibly the combination of alcohol/Bac has caused peripheral neuropathy. A neurologist who knows my medical history felt it was Lyme but whenever I do drink it causes a flare up of these symptoms. This and for many other reasons, is why I have to stop drinking.

Lyme is a very complicated disease and what it does neurologically could be the cause of my intermittent success & failures.

I've been on this serious titration with Bac for one year but have been at this for almost 3! With devastating failures beforehand... Each time, I've hit 300, my world is completely disoriented -- I can't remember, can't drive, can't function. I've tried this several time. At the rate I'm at (280) I'm OK but probably don't remember what it's like to be myself.

I'm currently on Lexepro and Addreral... I've always had problems with anxiety, depression and concentration (Lyme) but I believe the Bac exacerbated those symptoms without any symptom relief. I'm also taking herbs and antibiotics for Lyme. I've felt that I could attack both problems simultaneously.

The obsessiveness of AL since on Bac has all but diminished but the impulsivity is sporadic and intense. I don't know if it's a drug interaction, or some other neurological imbalance caused by Lyme. I will go weeks without drinking and then out of the blue I will relapse hard. That doesn't sound like the typical Bac experience to me!

I don't expect answers but it's helpful to me to put it into words to a group that might have more of an understanding of my situation. I'm trying to decide if I should quit or go higher or if I should stay steady and hope to improve the current outcome.

I sincerely appreciate any insight or advice.

Much thanks,

Tallulah

[caro]

My BAC story

Dear Tallulah,

I cannot offer you any constructive advice as i am a newbie and on a much lower dose than you (140mg).

However, I would like to say how sorry i am that you are clearly having such a rough time and i hope things improve for you soon.

Good luck

Caro

[Hippyman]

My BAC story

I have no idea what that high of a dose of baclofen would be like? At 50mgs per day I have the ability to say no to alcohol. The only side effect for me is that I don't have to drink. That's all I ever hoped for from taking baclofen. All I needed was the power to say no!

[Bart-man]

My BAC story

That is awesome Hippyman. Gives hope. I am scared to death of the high dosages now.

[ifulovelife2]

My BAC story

Bartman, high doses are nothing to be scared of. If you titrate up to them and don't just suddenly add an extra 1 or 200 on your daily dose, that is. Then they can completely f**k you up. I tried it as an experiment, or it may have been for shitz and giggles. More shitz and less giggles, as it turned out.

Tallulah, you don't seem to be having too much fun on bac atm, eh? When you've been on bac for some time, as you have, you adjust to the dose and its S.E.s and as you go up and down (as I have over the years) you find that the S.E.s you experienced at a certain dose in the past are not the same the next time. So the fact that when you move from 280 to 300 you have a problem each time would suggest, at least to my non-medical, non-scientific mind that the problem may be more psychological, maybe. If it is or it isn't, that really doesn't help, does it? A lot of people believe they have more or less S.E.s on different brands of bac and many believe that liquid bac has the lowest level of S.E. of all. Maybe you could try swapping over to the liquid for a while, try to get past the 300 barrier and see what happens.

[Tallulah]

My BAC story

iiful, Thank you for your response.

It sounds like you think I should go up -- not down!

Do you really 'adjust' to disorientation, confusion, memory loss? I stayed on 300 mgs for 2 weeks before I went down. I immediately felt relief at 280. Could it be over-toxicity? The psychological connection is not something I considered -- I don't think so but I appreciate the outside perspective.

I think the liquid Bac is a good idea. I bought it but having been sitting with it -- afraid to make a change.

I apologize if this thread is on a somber note. It's not intended to dissuade anyone from pursuing Bac. I have made a ton of progress but it has not been a home-run that I was hoping for. The overpowering desire to consume is usually gone until it's not and then it seems there's a person I don't even recognize indulging in the past destructive behavior.

For those of you that reached your switch -- did you experience abstinence then similar sudden strong desires or were the cravings more consistent until it was nonexistent?

Much thanks,
T

[Lo0p]

My BAC story

From personal experience, adderall and drugs like that have made me think about drinking even after being indifferent and on a constant dose of baclofen for years.

[ifulovelife2]

My BAC story

Tallulah;1467723 wrote:
I apologize if this thread is on a somber note. It's not intended to dissuade anyone from pursuing Bac.

Tallulah, there is absolutely no need to apologise. You're struggling and you're merely expressing your concerns about your personal situation, which is unique to you, as it is to each of us. You have things going on medically and personally that affect your relationship with bac and booze. Me too. In fact, so do every one of us.

I get the feeling that some people think baclofen is the be all and end all for sobriety. That when you take enough of it, everything suddenly slots into place and you can then skip down the path of bozzelessness. It does actually work like that for some but for most of us it's a more complicated journey. And for some of us there's all the other stuff going on in our lives, situationally, chemically or psychologically that needs sorting out before we can take advantage of the sobriety baclofen offers.

You asked for experiences of 'switching' and cravings. I 'switched' for sure. Two years ago. I suddenly realised I no longer had the need to drink. And so I didn't...until I started again. I started again for numerous reasons but mostly because my life became so devastatingly fucked up, I just couldn't handle it sober. I hadn't learned how to do that so I just reached for the bottle again, even though I didn't need booze. Atleast not in the way I did before.

I eventually came to the realisation (with some prodding from a close friend) that I wasn't able to handle life without booze because i was severely depressed. In my case the answer was very simple: treat the chemical imbalance that caused the depression. I did that and I now no longer need alcohol. I do still drink sometimes but not alcoholically and not to self-medicate my depression as I was before. Now I simply take DL-Phenylalanine for teh depression. It works for me and alongside baclofen it makes me sober.

You have a lot going on. Baclofen probably won't be enough to get you off and keep you off booze. In order to do that you have to get the other problems under control too. I'd say you're going in the right direction: you're searching for answers and trying the treatments you can.

I wish you all the best and please stay in touch.:l

[Ne/Neva Eva]

My BAC story

Tallulah;1467723 wrote:
Do you really 'adjust' to disorientation, confusion, memory loss? I stayed on 300 mgs for 2 weeks before I went down. I immediately felt relief at 280. Could it be over-toxicity? The psychological connection is not something I considered -- I don't think so but I appreciate the outside perspective.

I don't have any other diagnoses or mental illnesses and I still found that the psychological aspect has everything to do with how I feel. I wasn't content to just get sober, I wanted to get sober and be happy about it. So I looked at (closely!) and befriended the people around here who got sober and were happy about it. Without exception they all participated in something that helped to supplement their sobriety. Which isn't actually the point of what you were getting at, since that has more to do with what happens when you stop drinking against your will. Still, the sooner one starts, the better the outcome. (Hard exercise, therapy, etc...) There isn't one of us that isn't affected psychologically by this disease. It's simply not possible not to be.

Tallulah;1467723 wrote: For those of you that reached your switch -- did you experience abstinence then similar sudden strong desires or were the cravings more consistent until it was nonexistent?

The short answer is both. It's not unusual to drink after indifference. It is unusual to crave alcohol. Two different things.

Lo0p;1467819 wrote: From personal experience, adderall and drugs like that have made me think about drinking even after being indifferent and on a constant dose of baclofen for years.

Absolutely. I cannot stress this enough. I took adderall for ADD (after indifference) when I got back into school. There is absolutely no question that it triggers those craving mechanisms I haven't felt in years. Add to it that any amphetamine is going to affect the quality and quantity of sleep and you've got a real problem. Lack of good sleep absolutely contributes to lack of success with baclofen.

I had to go up to 320mg. I had a breakdown of sorts at about 260mg, and didn't think I could go on. I'm not suggesting that you go up, particularly if you're not addressing some of the other things, but I'm really glad I did. It was also the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. I'd do it again if I had to, without question.

That said, there's some pretty compelling anecdotal evidence (and a bit in the science-y world) that backs up the idea that staying at a consistent dose of baclofen (but not HDB!) for a long period of time might do the same thing without the devastating side effects. But only if (in my interpretation of the information) other avenues of sobriety are being addressed and followed up on.

Good luck, T.

[Tallulah]

My BAC story

I can't tell you how helpful these responses are...

Fuloflife,
I think that depression/anxiety is the root of most of our issues and in my case the underlying cause is a bacterial infection. And when you remove AL and add BAC, it's almost unbearable. I was on Celexa until it was considered an interaction and have been given Lexepro -- I've had more difficulty on the later. You also brought up why you started drinking again. Unfortunately, my life is a living hell right now. I simply do not know how to cope with it sober very well. So while the craving has lessened, the psychological coping problem remains the same.

I had no idea that Adderal might also be a cause of the problem. It was prescribed by the same Dr. that writes the Bac... but I guess it's an individual response thing. Unfortunately, I can't focus on any kind of project without it! My inability to focus (esp. on Bac) makes it very difficult to get through the the basic of tasks That same problem has made it difficult for me to follow any protocol.

NE, Do you think taking Adderal after indifference has anything to do with the effect of taking HDB? esp. since you commented that they did not have any psychological diagnosed problems?

You also said... (sorry that I don't have the whole quote thing figured out on here)

there's some pretty compelling anecdotal evidence (and a bit in the science-y world) that backs up the idea that staying at a consistent dose of baclofen (but not HDB!) for a long period of time might do the same thing without the devastating side effects. But only if (in my interpretation of the information) other avenues of sobriety are being addressed and followed up on.

If that is the case, it's a very promising treatment for anyone that seeks sobriety! esp. considering how many people have to drop out because of the SE. It was the thread about recovering from AA that brought me to this idea of a combined approach encompassing some aspects of AA and the support of MWO and the underlying cause addressed with Bac.

I can also relate to succeeding at lower doses this because I felt my cravings diminished at much lower amounts but was always seeking the holy grail to the switch. Perhaps, the best that it gets for me with medication was found at a much lower dose? It's just difficult to know that when you're in the thick of things...

Sometimes, you hear things over and over until you really HEAR them.
I know that I need to treat my addiction outside of the pill box. That has been the big missing piece but my current life situation makes it difficult to do any of that. I was at a point not so long ago that there was absolutely no time for me and zero room for alcohol. I pushed up on the Bac and diminished the "me" time. I'm trying to play catch up now and very much appreciate the support of this forum.


-T