Hey all.
I am disgusted by what happened on the other thread. Not because I wrote it or had anything to do with it, but because half of its express purpose was to warn people of trolls. Half of the reason I wrote the goddamned thing was to avoid situations like the one that happened.
For my own peace of mind, I need to say a few things. I don't know if they will be read by the people that I wish to hear them, or even so, if they will sink in, but I need to do it for me.
Maybe I was trying too hard to be poetic in my first post and as a result was unclear. I AM SANE AND SOBER TODAY BECAUSE OF BACLOFEN AND GABAPENTIN.
Since the age of 16 I have been prescribed at one point or another Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Xanax, Buspar, Serezone, Seroquel, Naltrexone and probably several other things that I'm forgetting. They worked with varying degrees of effectiveness and severity of side effects. None of them worked well enough or with few enough side effects for me to continue treatment with them. I was also off of meds completely from the age of 26 to 30. This, my friends, did not work out for me either. No sir, it most definitely did not.
BACLOFEN AND GABAPENTIN ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT HAVE ALLEVIATED THE DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, AND DEVASTATING CRAVINGS FOR ALCOHOL THAT HAVE PLAGUED ME SINCE ADOLESCENCE.
I made a decision shortly before starting baclofen that if I did not quit drinking, I would kill myself. I made the decision that I would rather commit suicide than die from this disease.
Alcoholism, whether you choose to call it a disease or not, is unarguably a progressive and fatal condition. It is a painful death, a slow death.
It is an undignified death.
It has none of the martyrdom of cancer, the gruesome glamor of a tragic accident. It is a death marked by regret, by lost chances, by wasted time and love.
Trolls, have you watched someone die of alcoholism? Have you watched their skin change from yellow to grey and painfully stretch while their limbs fill with fluid? Have you smelled what a person smells like when they're rotting from the inside out? Have you watched as they became unable to walk and known that they were sober for the first time in their adult life because no one would go get alcohol for them? Have you wondered about the cruelty in keeping such a person sober when they have been told that they will die soon anyway? Have you decided that, yes, it is worth it so that he may first get to know and then say goodbye to his three children he has been too drunk to interact with before? Have you seen what a family looks like when they are grieving but also relieved, RELIEVED!, that their loved one is dead?
Is this what you would wish for yourself, for me, for anyone?
I'm tired of trying to figure out what goes through your mind. I'm tired of trying to decide if you're drunk, bored, mentally ill or some combination thereof. I'm also tired of pussyfooting around the fact that you are tainting something that has saved my live and has the potential to save many more.
I GET IT. YOU DON'T LIKE BACLOFEN. And that's ok. That's completely reasonable. Baclofen is a serious medication, one that shouldn't be taken without very thorough research. And no one, absofuckinglutely no one on MWO would advocate taking baclofen without first knowing what you're getting into and what to expect. No one on MWO would tell you that baclofen is harmless and doesn't come with side effects. Hell, I couldn't take the side effects of HDB.
But the side effects of baclofen do not have the potential to "ruin your life". Getting sleepy and clumsy at work do not, in my opinion, qualify as a ruined life. Even the anxiety and depression that can result from HDB or coming off of it cannot, unto themselves, ruin your life.
You want to talk about a ruined life? You want to play this game? Stick with me here, I do have a point.
Your life is ruined when you are a healthy man in your 50's who knows he is at risk for prostate cancer so you dutifully have your PSA checked every year. And one year some doctor or lab tech screws up so that you have the test performed, but it's never sent to be analyzed. And you go back one year later, and you have stage 4 prostate cancer that's inoperable.
So you undergo what is basically chemical castration. You take hormone treatments that stop your testosterone. You will never again make love to your wife. You suffer hot flashes and tics that make you double up in pain and make strange noises involuntarily.
And the cancer gets worse.
So you undergo chemo. Then radiation. You are sick all the time. You lose your hair.
And the cancer still gets worse.
Finally, you decide to undergo an experimental treatment. A pill called XXXX that is not FDA approved for prostate cancer. The side effects of XXXX can be devastating. The most common one is painful, open sores developing on the hands and feet that worsen, become infected, and eventually make walking impossible. You are lucky enough to avoid this but the medication still makes you very sick, sicker than you were during chemo.
And still your cancer gets worse.
Of course, this is my father's story and not mine.
But here's my point. There are internet chat rooms for people undergoing hormone treatment. There are internet chat rooms for people undergoing chemo. There are internet chat rooms for people taking XXXX for prostate cancer. I have spent time in these chat rooms.
And never once have I read someone say "Don't do this treatment. It won't work. I experienced terrible side effects, and I'm still dying of cancer." NOT FUCKING ONCE. More importantly, I never once read, "You are stupid for taking this treatment."
This is especially relevant to me in the case of XXXX. Hormone therapy, chemo, and radiation are common approaches to prostate cancer. Their side effects are well documented as is their efficacy. A person showing up in a chat room and saying "Chemo sucks and doesn't work" wouldn't be taken seriously.
But XXXX is not FDA approved. It is still an experimental drug. The people taking it are on the frontier of unexplored territory in cancer treatment, just as we who take bac are on the frontier of addiction treatment. And you know what you see in those chat rooms? People supporting each other. People describing their side effects not to scare others, but to document them so people to come may know what to expect. People sharing what has helped them deal with their side effects. People sharing their successes and their failures with the drug in a nonconfrontational, nonjudgemental way. It would never occur to my father to go into one of these chat rooms and belittle people for taking it because it made him miserable and didn't help his cancer.
I'm sorry that XXXX didn't work for my dad. But I'm not sorry that he tried it. Because I want him to try every goddamned thing that's out there. And I want every person that has cancer, has alcoholism, has any fatal disease to have the option to try whatever treatment is available to them, even if that treatment has only worked for one other person, even if that treatment is not FDA approved, even if the evidence backing it up is anecdotal.
Because my dad's life is worth it. Because my life is worth it. Because the next person to come on MWO who has decided to kill themselves if they can't quit drinking is worth it.
YOU DON'T LIKE BACLOFEN? FINE. Don't take it. Feel free to tell us about why you don't like it. But do it with a little fucking class, won't you? Don't call names. Don't belittle. Don't judge.
You don't like baclofen? Fine. What has worked for you? That's the problem with the trolls. They never have any other suggestions. Sincerely, trolls. I'd rather not be taking 8 pills a day. You have a better idea? Let's hear it.
In the meantime, I'm staying on bac and gabapentin.
And I'm cheering on everyone fighting alcoholism. Whether they're taking bac, naltrexone, campral, amino acids, vitamins or going to AA. I want MWO to be a safe place for everyone fighting this disease, however they're going about it.
And to that end, I am not engaging the trolls after this. I say we take Yo's suggestion. Acknowledge the trolls but do not engage them. Do not allow them to provoke you. If they are offensive, flag their posts. It's hard, I know. But we have to be the bigger men and women in this situation.
I was exhausted yesterday. I had only slept 4 hours the night before and had to get up early for work. I was feeling down at work, irritated with coworkers and upset about the other thread being closed. I really didn't want to, but I made myself go to the gym for 2 hours after work because I'd eaten chicken wings and girl scout cookies the night before. I had intended on writing this last night, but when I got home, I was just too tired. I was wiped out and sad.
But then a marvelous thing happened.
I've read that as humans, we can't really remember pain. We remember our idea of the pain, how we quantified that pain in the moment, but not the pain itself. Something having to do with evolution and women not wanting to give birth again if they could remember the pain.
I was getting into the pickup truck to go get some dinner, and I looked up at the sky. And for just a second, I remembered the unnameable fear that I used to live with every day. I had a glimpse of all the psychic pain I've ever gone though. I remembered every razor I dragged over my own skin, every cigarette I put out myself, every action I took with the goal of escaping that agony for just a second. I remembered how that cold terror gripped me for years and how it translated to an unquenchable thirst for numbness, for oblivion.
And then it went away. The sky was just the sky.
I was tired, yes. And the thread closing was a bummer, sure. But I am sane and sober. I can breathe. I live with my family that I love very much. I have a pickup truck, and I can go get Chinese food. Life is good.
Trolls, I hope you're not living in that kind of pain. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. But if you are, I hope you find your way out. And if you want help, really want help, we'll be here.
Much love to everyone, especially to those still suffering,
Windy
I am disgusted by what happened on the other thread. Not because I wrote it or had anything to do with it, but because half of its express purpose was to warn people of trolls. Half of the reason I wrote the goddamned thing was to avoid situations like the one that happened.
For my own peace of mind, I need to say a few things. I don't know if they will be read by the people that I wish to hear them, or even so, if they will sink in, but I need to do it for me.
Maybe I was trying too hard to be poetic in my first post and as a result was unclear. I AM SANE AND SOBER TODAY BECAUSE OF BACLOFEN AND GABAPENTIN.
Since the age of 16 I have been prescribed at one point or another Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Wellbutrin, Xanax, Buspar, Serezone, Seroquel, Naltrexone and probably several other things that I'm forgetting. They worked with varying degrees of effectiveness and severity of side effects. None of them worked well enough or with few enough side effects for me to continue treatment with them. I was also off of meds completely from the age of 26 to 30. This, my friends, did not work out for me either. No sir, it most definitely did not.
BACLOFEN AND GABAPENTIN ARE THE ONLY THINGS THAT HAVE ALLEVIATED THE DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, AND DEVASTATING CRAVINGS FOR ALCOHOL THAT HAVE PLAGUED ME SINCE ADOLESCENCE.
I made a decision shortly before starting baclofen that if I did not quit drinking, I would kill myself. I made the decision that I would rather commit suicide than die from this disease.
Alcoholism, whether you choose to call it a disease or not, is unarguably a progressive and fatal condition. It is a painful death, a slow death.
It is an undignified death.
It has none of the martyrdom of cancer, the gruesome glamor of a tragic accident. It is a death marked by regret, by lost chances, by wasted time and love.
Trolls, have you watched someone die of alcoholism? Have you watched their skin change from yellow to grey and painfully stretch while their limbs fill with fluid? Have you smelled what a person smells like when they're rotting from the inside out? Have you watched as they became unable to walk and known that they were sober for the first time in their adult life because no one would go get alcohol for them? Have you wondered about the cruelty in keeping such a person sober when they have been told that they will die soon anyway? Have you decided that, yes, it is worth it so that he may first get to know and then say goodbye to his three children he has been too drunk to interact with before? Have you seen what a family looks like when they are grieving but also relieved, RELIEVED!, that their loved one is dead?
Is this what you would wish for yourself, for me, for anyone?
I'm tired of trying to figure out what goes through your mind. I'm tired of trying to decide if you're drunk, bored, mentally ill or some combination thereof. I'm also tired of pussyfooting around the fact that you are tainting something that has saved my live and has the potential to save many more.
I GET IT. YOU DON'T LIKE BACLOFEN. And that's ok. That's completely reasonable. Baclofen is a serious medication, one that shouldn't be taken without very thorough research. And no one, absofuckinglutely no one on MWO would advocate taking baclofen without first knowing what you're getting into and what to expect. No one on MWO would tell you that baclofen is harmless and doesn't come with side effects. Hell, I couldn't take the side effects of HDB.
But the side effects of baclofen do not have the potential to "ruin your life". Getting sleepy and clumsy at work do not, in my opinion, qualify as a ruined life. Even the anxiety and depression that can result from HDB or coming off of it cannot, unto themselves, ruin your life.
You want to talk about a ruined life? You want to play this game? Stick with me here, I do have a point.
Your life is ruined when you are a healthy man in your 50's who knows he is at risk for prostate cancer so you dutifully have your PSA checked every year. And one year some doctor or lab tech screws up so that you have the test performed, but it's never sent to be analyzed. And you go back one year later, and you have stage 4 prostate cancer that's inoperable.
So you undergo what is basically chemical castration. You take hormone treatments that stop your testosterone. You will never again make love to your wife. You suffer hot flashes and tics that make you double up in pain and make strange noises involuntarily.
And the cancer gets worse.
So you undergo chemo. Then radiation. You are sick all the time. You lose your hair.
And the cancer still gets worse.
Finally, you decide to undergo an experimental treatment. A pill called XXXX that is not FDA approved for prostate cancer. The side effects of XXXX can be devastating. The most common one is painful, open sores developing on the hands and feet that worsen, become infected, and eventually make walking impossible. You are lucky enough to avoid this but the medication still makes you very sick, sicker than you were during chemo.
And still your cancer gets worse.
Of course, this is my father's story and not mine.
But here's my point. There are internet chat rooms for people undergoing hormone treatment. There are internet chat rooms for people undergoing chemo. There are internet chat rooms for people taking XXXX for prostate cancer. I have spent time in these chat rooms.
And never once have I read someone say "Don't do this treatment. It won't work. I experienced terrible side effects, and I'm still dying of cancer." NOT FUCKING ONCE. More importantly, I never once read, "You are stupid for taking this treatment."
This is especially relevant to me in the case of XXXX. Hormone therapy, chemo, and radiation are common approaches to prostate cancer. Their side effects are well documented as is their efficacy. A person showing up in a chat room and saying "Chemo sucks and doesn't work" wouldn't be taken seriously.
But XXXX is not FDA approved. It is still an experimental drug. The people taking it are on the frontier of unexplored territory in cancer treatment, just as we who take bac are on the frontier of addiction treatment. And you know what you see in those chat rooms? People supporting each other. People describing their side effects not to scare others, but to document them so people to come may know what to expect. People sharing what has helped them deal with their side effects. People sharing their successes and their failures with the drug in a nonconfrontational, nonjudgemental way. It would never occur to my father to go into one of these chat rooms and belittle people for taking it because it made him miserable and didn't help his cancer.
I'm sorry that XXXX didn't work for my dad. But I'm not sorry that he tried it. Because I want him to try every goddamned thing that's out there. And I want every person that has cancer, has alcoholism, has any fatal disease to have the option to try whatever treatment is available to them, even if that treatment has only worked for one other person, even if that treatment is not FDA approved, even if the evidence backing it up is anecdotal.
Because my dad's life is worth it. Because my life is worth it. Because the next person to come on MWO who has decided to kill themselves if they can't quit drinking is worth it.
YOU DON'T LIKE BACLOFEN? FINE. Don't take it. Feel free to tell us about why you don't like it. But do it with a little fucking class, won't you? Don't call names. Don't belittle. Don't judge.
You don't like baclofen? Fine. What has worked for you? That's the problem with the trolls. They never have any other suggestions. Sincerely, trolls. I'd rather not be taking 8 pills a day. You have a better idea? Let's hear it.
In the meantime, I'm staying on bac and gabapentin.
And I'm cheering on everyone fighting alcoholism. Whether they're taking bac, naltrexone, campral, amino acids, vitamins or going to AA. I want MWO to be a safe place for everyone fighting this disease, however they're going about it.
And to that end, I am not engaging the trolls after this. I say we take Yo's suggestion. Acknowledge the trolls but do not engage them. Do not allow them to provoke you. If they are offensive, flag their posts. It's hard, I know. But we have to be the bigger men and women in this situation.
I was exhausted yesterday. I had only slept 4 hours the night before and had to get up early for work. I was feeling down at work, irritated with coworkers and upset about the other thread being closed. I really didn't want to, but I made myself go to the gym for 2 hours after work because I'd eaten chicken wings and girl scout cookies the night before. I had intended on writing this last night, but when I got home, I was just too tired. I was wiped out and sad.
But then a marvelous thing happened.
I've read that as humans, we can't really remember pain. We remember our idea of the pain, how we quantified that pain in the moment, but not the pain itself. Something having to do with evolution and women not wanting to give birth again if they could remember the pain.
I was getting into the pickup truck to go get some dinner, and I looked up at the sky. And for just a second, I remembered the unnameable fear that I used to live with every day. I had a glimpse of all the psychic pain I've ever gone though. I remembered every razor I dragged over my own skin, every cigarette I put out myself, every action I took with the goal of escaping that agony for just a second. I remembered how that cold terror gripped me for years and how it translated to an unquenchable thirst for numbness, for oblivion.
And then it went away. The sky was just the sky.
I was tired, yes. And the thread closing was a bummer, sure. But I am sane and sober. I can breathe. I live with my family that I love very much. I have a pickup truck, and I can go get Chinese food. Life is good.
Trolls, I hope you're not living in that kind of pain. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. But if you are, I hope you find your way out. And if you want help, really want help, we'll be here.
Much love to everyone, especially to those still suffering,
Windy
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