Baclofen wears off

[bleep]

Baclofen wears off

Ne/Neva Eva;1482321 wrote: ... So much so that I don't know if I'll continue with my own experiment....

Sorry, I also wanted to say that I reckon go for your experiment. Don't let this stop you. I went to zero, which you need not do, but this is an experiment - who knows what you might find out? Just go down very slowly would be my advice, and be prepared to go back up. It may be that you notice the effect before the cause, so be on the lookout for that.

[help4me]

Baclofen wears off

Hi All. It is so good for me to read all of this from you long timers. Thank you.

Why do we choose to drink through this balance that Baclofen provides? It's so much deeper than a physical addiction. Bac puts in place the ability to physically control our desire, but doesn't take away the desire to psychologically escape through it. That is where I am. I can physically say no when it's appropriate, but have still chosen to drink occasionally, just because. sigh. Reading your posts above, it sounds like we are all in the same place.

At least Baclofen does give us the power to control ourselves when needed. It's the downtime I worry about and where I don't trust myself. What can we do to fix that? forever. hmmmm.....

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen wears off

help4me;1482819 wrote:
Why do we choose to drink through this balance that Baclofen provides? It's so much deeper than a physical addiction. Bac puts in place the ability to physically control our desire, but doesn't take away the desire to psychologically escape through it. That is where I am. I can physically say no when it's appropriate, but have still chosen to drink occasionally, just because.

Hi Help. I've given this a lot of thought and not just recently. (Please understand that the following is related to people who take HDB, and not to recovery in any other way. I am not suggesting drinking when in recovery from alcoholism is a remotely reasonable choice. Had to say it. On to the point.)

I think there is value in the choice. Not just in terms of the fact that I can drink when and how I want. (I really, and truly, absolutely, do not care about booze.) But there is strength in the recovery process itself to be able to drink without reaching fruition (as it were) for a while. It doesn't do what it did for me. Every time I have a drink, I could be reigniting the connections that made me sick in the first place. But that's not what happens in this kind of recovery. There is power in that, I think. Even when I am desperately uncomfortable in my own skin (as I was last week) and just want OUT of my mind for a little while, I don't think of booze as the go-to. It doesn't feckin' work. :H Plus, the thought of drinking that much, and being actually drunk, makes me a little nauseous.

So for me the question is not why do I drink (very occasionally) but how long on HDB will it take my brain and body chemistry to change so that I don't seek an unproductive way out. ('cause trust me when I tell you I would've gotten drunk last week if I could stomach the idea.)

And also, when I go down on baclofen, will my brain chemistry automatically revert to the place where it needs alcohol?

I guess what I'm suggesting is that I don't have a psychological addiction to alcohol. I still don't know how to manage extreme stress and I absolutely get overly, abnormally, anxious and don't know how to manage that yet. But booze? meh. I am truly indifferent. I drink because I can. And why not? I don't believe booze is evil, or even bad, for approximately 90% of the population. It doesn't hurt me, as far as I can tell. And I strengthen the idea that it offers no solution, no solace. (And a caveat for those who would wonder about denial: Yes, I could and have given it up for long stretches of time. Without even knowing or thinking about it. If there is anything I am, it's introspective. To my own detriment. :H)

Am I unique in this? I don't think so. Bleep, were you psychologically addicted when you were indifferent? Even after you went off of baclofen? (btw, I have never heard of one person, other than Bminor, who went off and stayed sober--abstinent or not. Remember...whatshername? The one who went to the rehab in Atlanta? Full on relapse within a year of stopping and last I heard from her she's in AA.) Anyway.

Hope, do you drink because you can, but you still feel guilty about it? Or do you drink because alcohol will treat what ails you in your brain chemistry? Or because you still think it will? It is such a twisted knot, I know. But I don't think it's mental masturbation. I think it's at the heart of taking baclofen...or not taking baclofen. And it's definitely at the heart of the question about whether or not baclofen, and indifference, is enough in and of itself.

How are you bleep? I hear you about the promise of indifference making it difficult to impose other rules/restrictions. Even now, obviously.

Cheers, peeps.

[bleep]

Baclofen wears off

Two very good posts, Ne, I hope you can restrain yourself and not edit that. You are as bad as Reggie!

Was I psychologically addicted? No, I don't think I was, but it took a while to realise that, and also to benefit from the realisation, in that for some time after indifference, I still drank, probably more than would be considered normal. Mostly I thought, out of habit, but now that I think about, probably more out of some sort of craving for oblivion. It takes a while to realise that oblivion is not the desired state of mind, but that for me was slow in coming. And, as you point out, it isn't desirable either, which makes the state of mind of one who has achieved indifference particularly peculiar That's just shit that you have to muddle through though, once you get to indifference.

I would like to point out, which you mention, that my views on alcohol have changed dramatically recently. It truly is a chemical problem, which makes it so hard to fight. The eyes I look out of now tell me that it is normal to have a glass or 8 of wine every night, whereas very recently, I would have considered this abnormal. If there was some way to make a person look through normal, chemically balanced eyes, for just a minute in rehab, the problem would be half solved; it is only that I have the comparison of indifference to relate to, that makes me aware that this behavior is decidedly odd. That is the beauty of baclofen; it doesn't so much stop you drinking, as it enables you to see drinking for what it really is.

Anyway, that is enough from me. This is an interesting discussion, thanks.

[bleep]

Baclofen wears off

Oh, and thanks for asking Ne; I'm okay. I dislike living like this, I'm currently on my second or third bottle of wine, and will no doubt pay for it tomorrow, but otherwise ok. I know it's just a phase, so it gives me great comfort to realise that it will be over soon. I'm currently on 325mg's, and having a raft of SE's due to just jumping straight here, but they too will pass. And then, after I have been at this level for a little bit, booze will just fade away as a concern, and that is something I am looking forward to so much.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen wears off

bleep;1482875 wrote: It takes a while to realise that oblivion is not the desired state of mind, but that for me was slow in coming.
I was so, so, so ready for that. I had lists! :H And there was so much TO DO. Plus, I didn't have any good associations with being out of my head, or even drinking, anymore. That's a big difference from many people, I think. I drank alone. I hated my life, even though I didn't know it. There really wasn't anything good in the idea of drinking. Not that it didn't take me feckin' forever to figure that out.

bleep;1482875 wrote: And, as you point out, it isn't desirable either, which makes the state of mind of one who has achieved indifference particularly peculiar That's just shit that you have to muddle through though, once you get to indifference.
That is, I think, a very common conundrum. I can relate to that much more now that the newness of blessed and blissful sobriety has worn off. Don't get me wrong, I still appreciate the fact that I spent 25 of my 43 years in the hellish torture of craving. Jesus. I just realized that I'm particularly wordy and going on and on. Sorry. Anyhoo...

bleep;1482875 wrote: I would like to point out, which you mention, that my views on alcohol have changed dramatically recently. It truly is a chemical problem, which makes it so hard to fight.
I think that is also one of the things that was SO clear to me the very minute I stopped drinking. 'cause I'd tried everything else, and still believed up until the end, that it was my fault. Then suddenly I didn't want to drink anymore and everything I believed was turned on it's head. (Remember, my first AA meeting was in 1995!! I was a creature of that habit almost as much as my own addiction.)
But I think you've put it very succinctly. Particularly the next part:

bleep;1482875 wrote: The eyes I look out of now tell me that it is normal to have a glass or 8 of wine every night, whereas very recently, I would have considered this abnormal.
That's bizarre. I can't imagine. If I was more courageous, I'd try it just to see what it's like to look through those eyes again. I find myself honestly (and innocently!) wondering why people just. don't. stop. Which is so fucking ironic and horrible. I HATE that thought.

bleep;1482875 wrote: If there was some way to make a person look through normal, chemically balanced eyes, for just a minute in rehab, the problem would be half solved; it is only that I have the comparison of indifference to relate to, that makes me aware that this behavior is decidedly odd.

Yep. Exactly. If I could have any of the people currently struggling on their way up (or even down) experience what my brain feels like, the difference in my mind, ...Well, maybe my mind is not the best example. But if people really knew there wouldn't be baclofen enough. In the world. (Please people who are getting upset about now, I am not suggesting you should take baclofen and I'm very glad that you are finding or have found a way out. I support you! Really!!)


bleep;1482875 wrote: That is the beauty of baclofen; it doesn't so much stop you drinking, as it enables you to see drinking for what it really is.

Which is what? Please elucidate when you feel like it. 'cause I don't understand.

And the problem is, beauty of baclofen aside, it absolutely sucks for some of us. I received an email from someone today and he reminded me that it is a crude (his word) and unlovely (my word) medication.

bleep;1482878 wrote: ...I'm currently on ...mg's, and having a raft of SE's due to just jumping straight here, but they too will pass.

I won't even pretend that I think you should slow down.

bleep;1482875 wrote: Two very good posts, Ne, I hope you can restrain yourself and not edit that.

I almost deleted my post, actually. :H I probably would have if I hadn't forgotten about it. I don't know what's gotten into me. I hate to admit it, but I think the troll has had an effect. That and the fact that for a long time it seemed moot. Which makes me sad and determined.

bleep;1482875 wrote: Anyway, that is enough from me. This is an interesting discussion, thanks.

Me too. And thank you.

[bleep]

Baclofen wears off

Ne/Neva Eva;1482985 wrote:
Which is what? Please elucidate when you feel like it. 'cause I don't understand.

From this perspective, a glass of wine takes on much more allure than it should. It is just a liquid, and really there are better tasting liquids out there. But it's too tempting right now - the condensation on the glass, the crack of the ice cubes (yes, it's shitty boxed wine, which should end the internal debate right there!), the whole culture around a simple glass of wine just builds itself up into something much more than it is. Of course, the debate only rages around the first glass - once that is consumed there simply isn't debate any more.

I know you disagree about shooting up into high doses, but there's no debate in my mind over this. Once I had adjusted to the initial dose of baclofen, I did a couple of test doses over the weekend to see if I would still be able to tolerate going up quickly. I was quite pleased to discover that I could, and so it became a no-brainer. Last time I went up it took 3 weeks to reach indifference, so taken in that light, I am being more cautious this time around! It has been just over 2 weeks already, and indifference is taunting me from afar. Well fuck that!

[ignominious]

Baclofen wears off

How are you Bleepo?
Mad high dose, AF,'out of your tree' , insane SE's?

[COSGringo]

Baclofen wears off

The SE's are the killer for me.
Going to start relying on my willpower and need to just be AF.

The SE's are back for me again. The whole feeling like you are dropping dead when nodding off and mess. I can't keep doing this crud.

Hang in there all!

[bleep]

Baclofen wears off

Hi Ig, thanks for asking. I've settled on 325 and have been there for a little while now. Other than somnolence in the afternoon, and reduced sexual feeling, the SE's have pretty much abated. I'm now working my way toward taking it in one dose. Not quite AF, but it's getting there. I had a motorbike accident yesterday, and was given pethidine, but it's not as exciting as I have been led to believe all this time, alas. I suppose pregnant moms have a low standard for mind altering substances!

As you say COS, hang in there. The somnolence will fade away. Maybe try changing your dose?

[bleep]

Baclofen wears off

Reggie! Good to see you, and grim at the same time. I think I was a pretty uncomplicated alcoholic. I drank because I enjoyed it too much, and not really as a result of any deep psychoses. For me it was, and is, very simple - just take enough baclofen, and the problem goes away.

I am then faced with Ig's current dilemma - what on earth to do for fun?

[Chi]

Baclofen wears off

bleep;1475611 wrote: A brief background will probably help. I first took baclofen over 2 years ago, and it worked perfectly. I went, almost overnight, from someone who couldn't stop once I had begun drinking, to someone who very seldom started. I continued taking baclofen for over a year, and during that time went up pretty high, and was thoroughly indifferent to alcohol. Just to see what would happen, and because baclofen was screwing with my sex drive, I went off it, maybe 8 months ago. To my surprise, the indifferent effect remained, and until recently worked fine. I would drink perhaps once or twice a week, maybe a glass or three of wine, and that was that.

2 weeks ago, literally overnight, the effect wore off, and I've probably been pissed on 80% of the nights. So it's back to the titration drawing board. I just wanted to post to let people know, in case someone who is on baclofen currently is thinking of tapering off.

BLEEP!!!! I am so happy to see you are still posting here, I have not logged on in so long and I was wondering who would be here. I am very short on time at the moment so I have not had time to read the thread (or other threads) but I just HAD to say hello :l

I have thought of you many times in the last year and your kindness regarding my friend Brian- but I will save that for PM.

I too went off bac after much success. Soooo much has happened in the last year for me, all good stuff, thankfully... but the hubs and I have started to drink again in amounts that I'm beginning to question again. It still feels like celebration but being the long time alcoholic that I am, deep down I know better so I figured it was time to head back to MWO.

I'll be back to the forum later after I take care of my business for today. One last thing, I too am going to start back on the bac very, very soon... luckily I still have some.... more later my friend.... so happy to "see" you!!

[bleep]

Baclofen wears off

Chi, it's good to see you as well! Glad you posted, I had lost Brian's address, and couldn't remember who it was that had given it me!

Sorry to hear that life is not working at the moment, but luckily the solution is waiting for you. It's amazing how it takes the pressure off! I look forward to hearing more when you have some time.

[bleep]

Baclofen wears off

A update here: I wish doctors would listen to patients more. I must have told my doctor a hundred times, that painkillers don't really work, and I need something with a bit of a kick. But he insists on prescribing things that are about as effective as smarties for me. So I'm in agony right now, with a throbbing leg. To make matters worse, the tablets he has given me have constipation as an SE, and I'm already highly constipated from baclofen, so it's back to that timeless painkiller that we all know and love.

[ignominious]

Baclofen wears off

Hi Reggie. Nice to see you (including the relevant non sequitur).

Yes, I need to deal with my disphoria and Bleep is not alone in the sexual slowdown! They are one and the same for me. I have rarely in my life (if ever) engaged and enjoyed sex without being drunk (excluding morning after sex when you're still in a dream world and still pretty much fucked up). I'm just so up tight all the time.

I'll be looking for that book next trip to Thailand. As for making it stick, at least this time I have the advantage of knowing to expect.

What to do for fun? What is fun? I spent an hour with my son making a parrot out of coloured plastic beads. When I thought about "what a time waste it was for me and wasn't there something better I should be doing" I actually realised that I was enjoying it. I'm just a repressed modeller and my salvation lies in completing a 'to scale' model of the QE2!