So, this is really a continuation of my thread from here... My AWFUL Experience with Baclofen, So Far...
Well, after almost a year and a half, and givng up several times and trying again, I finally found the elusive fothermucking switch!
After my last post, last August, I began titrating back up, finally reaching 290mg in the beginning of December. At that point, I was like, "I don't get it... I still want to drink! And I can't take the horrendous side effects anymore!" I was twitching like an epileptic that night, and said, "I gotta get the hell off this stuff as quickly as possible."
I had read someone else's post that said he was able to drop about 100mg in one day, with no problem, and then stay there. well, I wasn't about to try that, but I cut back by 50 in one day. Then, another 40, down to 200, a few days later. I then, titrated down by 10 to 20 mg/day from there, paying very close attention to any signs of withdrawal.
I was able to come down to 0 by the end of December, with absolutely no issue. My biggest fear as I was titrating up, was getting up to a ridiculously high dose (north of 300), and then being stuck for weeks dealing with unbearable side effects, while having to SLOWLY back down if it became too much too bear. I felt the higher I went, the more risk exposure there was, if it would take me months to come off it if I needed to. Well, that fear was now squashed.
So, I took some time to let my body get back to "normal". By the beginning of February, I decided to give it one last shot. I had also read a bunch of posts, that were kind of a "DUH" moment for me. They said that baclofen will not make you not WANT to drink. Nothing will do that. Baclofen will make you not HAVE TO drink, and that many people blow right past their switch without realizing it. I thought... dumbass! You never actually TRIED to not drink. You were just waiting for something to miraculously MAKE you stop.
I had read another post (which I can't find now for the life of me) where someone said they titrated from 0 to like 280 in about 10 days. When asked how that was possible, he responded, "I dosed like a madman." And said that he jumped as much as 150mg in one day. And that's what finally did it. I thought, if he could do it, so can I. Well, I may be crazy, but I'm not completely stupid. I wasn't about to be THAT drastic, but I began going up by 20 mg day. I knew I couldn't spend a few more months trying to get back to a high enough dose to see if it would finally work for me. The drowsiness over an extended period would kill me in the process. I had to try and get back there as quickly as possible, and hopefully be able to titrate back down after not too long.
So, up I go, 20mg a day. The side effects kicked in brutal by 80mg (you thought they were bad going 20 mg a week!). I wasn't surprised, but I just sucked it up and powered through them. I was twitching like a madman. My wife actually said to me at one point, "I can actually see you twitching from the other room." I know, but I have to fight through it. At 180 mg, I had a brain fart, and suddenly managed to jump to about 240 the next day. Don't know what I was thinking. But, as I stood in my bathroom around 3am, body and brain going berserk, I lost consciousness (fell asleep?) for a split second and fell back against the bathroom door. Bang! Woke my wife and scared the shit out of her. But, I thought, ok, maybe chill a bit.
I hung back at 200 for a few days and then started back up again, by 20 every two or three days. At 240, I thought, let's see if you can not drink. I went 3 days without much effort at all, but caved on the 4th night, because I was so stressed out from work. I thought, close, but not quite there yet. Kept drinking for the next few days and made it up to 280. Was still stressed out as hell, and thought... I want to drink tonight, but I don't feel like I NEED to. So, I didn't. The next few days were the same, stressed and wanted to, but no nagging physical craving for it. After a few more days, I thought, it's gonna be a week, and I don't feel any need to drink. Then, before I knew it, the next time I actually thought about it, it had been 10 days.
Now, here's where it gets a little tricky (at least for me). The baclofen has removed the cravings, but for me, that's only part of it. A large part of why I drink, and why I ended up drinking past my switch the first time, is as a way to cope with stress and uncomfortable situations in life. As someone else pointed out, it's tough to really tout it as a cure for addiction, because there are many factors to what drives addiction. Granted, the cravings are the mother that ultimately cause us all to fail when we try to to abstain, by ourselves, but I still need to find ways to deal with the other triggers that drive me to drink. I'm not trying to minimize what the baclofen does. Not at all. Just realizing I can only expect it to do so much of it for me.
I had read many other posts where people were saying when you hit your switch, you will just know. Not for me. It was not a sudden realization. Now, mind you, I have also still been doing TSM the whole time, as well. I didn't want to stop until I knew one or the other would work. It's quite possible that the naltrexone actually did more than I thought, because even when I wasn't taking the bac, I was still only having about 3 units a night, way down from my past. The same amount I was still drinking when I went past my perceived switch. So, it's possible the nal actually worked quite a while ago and I was still drinking just out of habit and for stress relief. I will slowly titrate down on the bac and see if the cravings start to reappear. If I get back down to 0 and still have no cravings... bonus! It might just have been the extra push I needed to stop.
A couple other quick things. One thing I've noticed about baclofen... It seems it's only practical use is for cravings/anxiety, because it has got to be the world's worst muscle relaxer. Since, I started taking it, I have not felt a muscle in my body feel more relaxed/looser. In fact, it has seemed to have a complete contradictory effect on me. Beginning a few weeks ago, I started noticing progressivley worsening tightness in my shoulders and massive knots on my back and directly on my spine. Now, when I say massive, I mean visible to the naked eye, and will not release for ANYTHING. I have gone for 60 and 90 minute deep tissue massages to try and fix it. It barely makes a dent, and it comes right back within a few days. I work on them every night with my massage chair, drilling into each knot, on the "spot" setting, for a few minutes. It helps for a bit and they just come back soon after. I just cannot seem to get my muscles to smooth out or relax. Weird, huh.
Regarding Dr. L, I've really had it with this guy. I've been trying to get my prescription refilled for almost a month now, unsuccessfully. I submitted the refill through my pharmacy, but had no hopes of it actually getting filled without my intervention. After a week with no word back on it, I called my pharmacy and asked them to call him on his cell, as it seemed that was the only way I could get through to him and/or get the pharmacy connected with him. Not to mention, he had told me all the previous times just to have the pharmacy call him and he will verify the prescription. This time it did not seem to be working, either. I had them call multiple times. Never answered and never returned any of the voicemails they left him. What kind of doctor just ignores voicemails? But I digress... I finally called him on his home number at night, and he said, "Well, all you have to do is have your pharmacy contact me..." I kind of cut him off and said, "I have, multiple times, with no success." He said, "Well, you just have to have them fax me the request and I'll send it back." FAX??? After almost a year of dealing with him, this is the first time I've ever heard any mention of him even having a fax machine. So, I said, "Oh, well, what's your fax number?" He said, "It's the same number you're calling on." (his home) OHHH. I figure surely this is the problem. I never gave my pharmacy a fax number for him. So, I called my pharmacy, asked them if they could fax him the request and gave them the number. They said, "Oh, yeah, we have that fax number. We already faxed it to him a week ago and haven't gotten anything back." SIGH... I said, "Ok, can you fax it again?" After another week, I asked them to fax it again. Still, after a few more days of nothing, I called him again and said, "I'm deperately trying to get this refilled but I can't seem to get it done. My pharmacy said they faxed it several times over the past few weeks and haven't gotten anything back." He responded, "That's impossible. I don't wait on those. I send them right back." Not knowing how to respond, I said, "Well, let me check with them and if they haven't received anything back can I have them fax it again right now?" He said, "Sure." Of course they hadn't received anything back, so I asked them if they could fax it right then. They tried for about 30 minutes right then, no answer. I am at a loss as to how to actually get it done. Fortunately, I am smart enough to have about 2 1/2 months backup supply, but now that's down to 1 1/2 months. Thank God, I just ordered from Pheonix and got my order within a few days. Lo0p, you are doing the Lord's work! But, still I want to keep refilling the pills, in case something happens and I cannot get it through Phoenix. Plus, I can't take liquid during the day, at work. So, I will keep trying Dr. L and hopefully I'll get it done before I am completely out of pills. I actually just found out tonight, the pharmacy was never able to get a successful transmission. They showed me the log. All failed, no answer. I got the pharmacy to print me the refill request, so I can try and get the fax to go through, myself, since they don't seem to have any luck. BTW, just for the record, I am not someone who is looking for anything for free. I gladly pay his fee, but expect some sort of reliability/reachability, in return. I think that's only fair.
Ok, I think I've said enough for now. I guess that's what happens when I don't post for 7 months and then put it all down in one big rant. ;-)
Cheers!
Well, after almost a year and a half, and givng up several times and trying again, I finally found the elusive fothermucking switch!
After my last post, last August, I began titrating back up, finally reaching 290mg in the beginning of December. At that point, I was like, "I don't get it... I still want to drink! And I can't take the horrendous side effects anymore!" I was twitching like an epileptic that night, and said, "I gotta get the hell off this stuff as quickly as possible."
I had read someone else's post that said he was able to drop about 100mg in one day, with no problem, and then stay there. well, I wasn't about to try that, but I cut back by 50 in one day. Then, another 40, down to 200, a few days later. I then, titrated down by 10 to 20 mg/day from there, paying very close attention to any signs of withdrawal.
I was able to come down to 0 by the end of December, with absolutely no issue. My biggest fear as I was titrating up, was getting up to a ridiculously high dose (north of 300), and then being stuck for weeks dealing with unbearable side effects, while having to SLOWLY back down if it became too much too bear. I felt the higher I went, the more risk exposure there was, if it would take me months to come off it if I needed to. Well, that fear was now squashed.
So, I took some time to let my body get back to "normal". By the beginning of February, I decided to give it one last shot. I had also read a bunch of posts, that were kind of a "DUH" moment for me. They said that baclofen will not make you not WANT to drink. Nothing will do that. Baclofen will make you not HAVE TO drink, and that many people blow right past their switch without realizing it. I thought... dumbass! You never actually TRIED to not drink. You were just waiting for something to miraculously MAKE you stop.
I had read another post (which I can't find now for the life of me) where someone said they titrated from 0 to like 280 in about 10 days. When asked how that was possible, he responded, "I dosed like a madman." And said that he jumped as much as 150mg in one day. And that's what finally did it. I thought, if he could do it, so can I. Well, I may be crazy, but I'm not completely stupid. I wasn't about to be THAT drastic, but I began going up by 20 mg day. I knew I couldn't spend a few more months trying to get back to a high enough dose to see if it would finally work for me. The drowsiness over an extended period would kill me in the process. I had to try and get back there as quickly as possible, and hopefully be able to titrate back down after not too long.
So, up I go, 20mg a day. The side effects kicked in brutal by 80mg (you thought they were bad going 20 mg a week!). I wasn't surprised, but I just sucked it up and powered through them. I was twitching like a madman. My wife actually said to me at one point, "I can actually see you twitching from the other room." I know, but I have to fight through it. At 180 mg, I had a brain fart, and suddenly managed to jump to about 240 the next day. Don't know what I was thinking. But, as I stood in my bathroom around 3am, body and brain going berserk, I lost consciousness (fell asleep?) for a split second and fell back against the bathroom door. Bang! Woke my wife and scared the shit out of her. But, I thought, ok, maybe chill a bit.
I hung back at 200 for a few days and then started back up again, by 20 every two or three days. At 240, I thought, let's see if you can not drink. I went 3 days without much effort at all, but caved on the 4th night, because I was so stressed out from work. I thought, close, but not quite there yet. Kept drinking for the next few days and made it up to 280. Was still stressed out as hell, and thought... I want to drink tonight, but I don't feel like I NEED to. So, I didn't. The next few days were the same, stressed and wanted to, but no nagging physical craving for it. After a few more days, I thought, it's gonna be a week, and I don't feel any need to drink. Then, before I knew it, the next time I actually thought about it, it had been 10 days.
Now, here's where it gets a little tricky (at least for me). The baclofen has removed the cravings, but for me, that's only part of it. A large part of why I drink, and why I ended up drinking past my switch the first time, is as a way to cope with stress and uncomfortable situations in life. As someone else pointed out, it's tough to really tout it as a cure for addiction, because there are many factors to what drives addiction. Granted, the cravings are the mother that ultimately cause us all to fail when we try to to abstain, by ourselves, but I still need to find ways to deal with the other triggers that drive me to drink. I'm not trying to minimize what the baclofen does. Not at all. Just realizing I can only expect it to do so much of it for me.
I had read many other posts where people were saying when you hit your switch, you will just know. Not for me. It was not a sudden realization. Now, mind you, I have also still been doing TSM the whole time, as well. I didn't want to stop until I knew one or the other would work. It's quite possible that the naltrexone actually did more than I thought, because even when I wasn't taking the bac, I was still only having about 3 units a night, way down from my past. The same amount I was still drinking when I went past my perceived switch. So, it's possible the nal actually worked quite a while ago and I was still drinking just out of habit and for stress relief. I will slowly titrate down on the bac and see if the cravings start to reappear. If I get back down to 0 and still have no cravings... bonus! It might just have been the extra push I needed to stop.
A couple other quick things. One thing I've noticed about baclofen... It seems it's only practical use is for cravings/anxiety, because it has got to be the world's worst muscle relaxer. Since, I started taking it, I have not felt a muscle in my body feel more relaxed/looser. In fact, it has seemed to have a complete contradictory effect on me. Beginning a few weeks ago, I started noticing progressivley worsening tightness in my shoulders and massive knots on my back and directly on my spine. Now, when I say massive, I mean visible to the naked eye, and will not release for ANYTHING. I have gone for 60 and 90 minute deep tissue massages to try and fix it. It barely makes a dent, and it comes right back within a few days. I work on them every night with my massage chair, drilling into each knot, on the "spot" setting, for a few minutes. It helps for a bit and they just come back soon after. I just cannot seem to get my muscles to smooth out or relax. Weird, huh.
Regarding Dr. L, I've really had it with this guy. I've been trying to get my prescription refilled for almost a month now, unsuccessfully. I submitted the refill through my pharmacy, but had no hopes of it actually getting filled without my intervention. After a week with no word back on it, I called my pharmacy and asked them to call him on his cell, as it seemed that was the only way I could get through to him and/or get the pharmacy connected with him. Not to mention, he had told me all the previous times just to have the pharmacy call him and he will verify the prescription. This time it did not seem to be working, either. I had them call multiple times. Never answered and never returned any of the voicemails they left him. What kind of doctor just ignores voicemails? But I digress... I finally called him on his home number at night, and he said, "Well, all you have to do is have your pharmacy contact me..." I kind of cut him off and said, "I have, multiple times, with no success." He said, "Well, you just have to have them fax me the request and I'll send it back." FAX??? After almost a year of dealing with him, this is the first time I've ever heard any mention of him even having a fax machine. So, I said, "Oh, well, what's your fax number?" He said, "It's the same number you're calling on." (his home) OHHH. I figure surely this is the problem. I never gave my pharmacy a fax number for him. So, I called my pharmacy, asked them if they could fax him the request and gave them the number. They said, "Oh, yeah, we have that fax number. We already faxed it to him a week ago and haven't gotten anything back." SIGH... I said, "Ok, can you fax it again?" After another week, I asked them to fax it again. Still, after a few more days of nothing, I called him again and said, "I'm deperately trying to get this refilled but I can't seem to get it done. My pharmacy said they faxed it several times over the past few weeks and haven't gotten anything back." He responded, "That's impossible. I don't wait on those. I send them right back." Not knowing how to respond, I said, "Well, let me check with them and if they haven't received anything back can I have them fax it again right now?" He said, "Sure." Of course they hadn't received anything back, so I asked them if they could fax it right then. They tried for about 30 minutes right then, no answer. I am at a loss as to how to actually get it done. Fortunately, I am smart enough to have about 2 1/2 months backup supply, but now that's down to 1 1/2 months. Thank God, I just ordered from Pheonix and got my order within a few days. Lo0p, you are doing the Lord's work! But, still I want to keep refilling the pills, in case something happens and I cannot get it through Phoenix. Plus, I can't take liquid during the day, at work. So, I will keep trying Dr. L and hopefully I'll get it done before I am completely out of pills. I actually just found out tonight, the pharmacy was never able to get a successful transmission. They showed me the log. All failed, no answer. I got the pharmacy to print me the refill request, so I can try and get the fax to go through, myself, since they don't seem to have any luck. BTW, just for the record, I am not someone who is looking for anything for free. I gladly pay his fee, but expect some sort of reliability/reachability, in return. I think that's only fair.
Ok, I think I've said enough for now. I guess that's what happens when I don't post for 7 months and then put it all down in one big rant. ;-)
Cheers!
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