A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

[laurie65]

I have read many of all the wise posts during my research phase, and am deeply inspired by all the success stories on here.

So much so that 12 weeks ago I started my own bac journey. I hate to report that much of it has been hell. I quite like some of the se's in the early days. i became very much the social commentator on facebook and seemed to have an opinion on anything from politics to food corruption.
I was flying....and drinking and smoking more than ever.

I had a couple of breaks from the obsession to drink, and often found myself unable to finish the bottle, but never once have I been ablke to not open it in the first place. Deffo less obsessed tho. Deffo more obsessed with my baclofen counts.

Over the last month, I have climbed up to 200 mgs. All the positives have become crippling negatives. I feel like shit every day. Scared I'm going to suffocate in my sleep. Freezing cold all the time. Ok it is Baltic here in Scotland, but I'm the sort that always too hot. Crushing depression. Zero motivation. I just want to sleep and cry most days.

Don't know if I can continue like this at all. I've stuck on 200 and had hoped by this morning that the depression might have lifted a little. Zilch. I dread the time I have to take my dose now. Yet strangely taking the dose does seem to help me get thru the day. It's the mornings that are a killer.

And no-one (except you guys) no-one knows I doing this. I feel so alone. Thank god for MWO.

I'm wonder now two things.
Should I take a risk and climb a little higher on the bac, some people suggest this might help.
Or should I look to coming down gradually?
My other temptation is to try Mirtazapine. Read good reports that this med is very complimentary to bac.
Might at least help with the most crushing se. Depression.
Of course not drinking would probably help the most!

Best wishes

Laurie

[drb120]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

Laurie I too am struggling so I have no specific advice, but want you to know you are definitely not alone. I quadrupled my facebook friends within 2 months on baclofen. I was Mr. Social. I will follow your threads and help in any way I can.

[bleep]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

Hi Laurie,

One of the reasons I stopped posting a while back was after giving advice that turned out to be less than helpful. So please understand that anything you read here is just that: advice from people who may or may not know what they are talking about. Or rather, advice from people as to what worked for them...

The road to freedom through baclofen is not necessarily an easy one. That said, for me it was by far the easiest and most effortless road out of this hell that I could have chosen, and by that point in my journey, I had tried a few dead ends. If I could say with certainty that baclofen was going to work for you, I would exhort you to ignore any crap that you might be enduring to get there, for the ease with which you will later look back with on your current problems almost makes a mockery of them now.

And I've taken a long view of the problem these days; if you are struggling with a level, my advice in the past would have been to plough through it, and to push on upwards. Unless you are facing immediate consequences to your drinking though, why not just relax, and take it slow? There is no need to kill yourself.

Again, as I said in the beginning of this post, this is how I would do it, not how you should do it. And if you had asked me at a different time, I would have given you different advice. Pinch of salt is the watchword here! You know how you are feeling, you be the judge.

[Colin]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

laurie65;1482889 wrote:
My other temptation is to try Mirtazapine. Read good reports that this med is very complimentary to bac.
Might at least help with the most crushing se. Depression.
Of course not drinking would probably help the most!

Best wishes

Laurie

Are you sure the depression is an SE of baclofen? Perhaps you are normally depressed but just don't notice it during the daily scramble between hangover and inebriation and back again?

In this case, if you don't treat the depression you run the risk of looking around with an alcohol free clarity at a depressing future. In such a state it will be easy to think "Who gives a fuck?. Sobriety is not all it's cracked up to be. I'm off to the boozer." I've been there.

Mirtazapine is an AD which might help but I'd do this under a doctor's supervision.

Few, if any, baclofentists have mentioned depression as a side effect of baclofen.

[laurie65]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

You are right Colin, I am predisposed to depression. You are right too that my drinking has been an avoidance of facing my depression. So preoccupied with hangovers and unit counting and begging the lord god above to be free of drinking while standing in the queue to pay for my wine. It takes up a lot of energy.
I recognise completely the loss of mojo, of sitting staring blankly at a computer screen, or pacing the floor like a caged tiger and ringing my hands in despair. Wanting to sleep all day...but buzzing at night, no motivation to even go for a walk, which I know helps me so.
Then drinking and smoking in the hope that it will mend the broken bit inside of me.
These feelings are no stranger to me.
I sometimes feel there is a deep trauma inside of me. Cause i don't know what the 'it' is that I'm constantly trying to escape from.
Sorry, I'm rambling.
I've been on Citralapine and Prozac before. They didn't touch the missing part. Supp's help. L-tyrosine seems to help, but now I'm scared to take it in case it interferes with the bac.
I'm going to level down a bit on the bac over the next week or so see if that helps.
Thanks Bleep and DRB. Your words are so very helpful xxx

[Ne/Neva Eva]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

Hi, Laurie.

I don't know if it's bleep's return (he and I struggled through it together) or something altogether unrelated to that, but right now I am really in touch with what it was like back then.

I won't belabor the point about how difficult it sometimes was, because that doesn't seem very productive.
And like bleep mentioned, I think it's hard to give specific advice now, drb. I've learned the hard way that it isn't really productive or helpful. Plus, what the hell do I know? Especially about anonymous strangers. It's a scary thought, sometimes, the idea of sharing about these meds in this way. Plus, there is the added self-consciousness of being the most verbose person in the meds threads. Perhaps on MWO. Perhaps ever. I figure you've got to get tired of hearing the same things time and again from me. (I will bugger off, btw. It's happened. No offense taken. Just let me know.)

But, drb, I think there are some really specific things couched in the language of suggestions that you can follow to a T. That's what I did. I also got specifics, though. Like "jkttdp." (Credit lowcountryman) And, "Take more. Today." (Lo0p) :H So it really just depends on which path you want to follow, making the decision and then sticking with it long enough to see if it works. Medicine, not magic. (sometimes.)

Laurie, back to the depression conundrum. I think what struck me is your prayer. I prayed. Oh, my. But this is ...not magic, or even particularly spiritual in nature. It's chemistry. And if the brain chemistry is all kerfuffled and under the influence, it is really hard to say to what you can attribute what.

Short version: It might be the bac. It might be the booze. It certainly might be the combination. I think you are wise to be hesitant to take other things with bac. I also think that there's a middle ground, a way to test the waters to see if something works so that it isn't quite so unbearable.

So a couple of things about that: If you're scared of it, it won't work. I don't know if bac enhances the power of the mind (I think it does, but then, I give baclofen much more credit/fault than it deserves.) Or if it's the nature of the disease, or just human nature. (Probably the latter.) But if you don't think it will work, or if it increases your anxiety, then it won't.

So get yourself a wee plan together. (That's said in my best Scottish accent. ) And proceed accordingly. And believe that you will be whole and well and profoundly changed in a lovely way when this is all done. I believe it because I've seen it SO MANY TIMES. Really. (Have you read joanna's thread? She thought she was crazy, too. She's not. And she's lovely. She's just one of many. I swear.)

I know a very little bit about Mirtazapine. Enough not to hate it, the way I do SSRIs, but not enough to recommend it. Perhaps it will help. What I have seen help many times is Gabapentin. I've also heard one cautionary tale about it, but frankly, I still think it might be a really, really positive addition to baclofen, in general. Wish I'd known about it when I was titrating up. Or down. I don't know if you can get it from a doctor, it's prescribed for neuropathy, mostly. And also epilepsy. (Off label it is prescribed for depression and a whole host of other related things. The parent company, Glaxo maybe, was sued for promoting it for off label use, so people stopped using it off label for a while. That's the long version of you may be able to get it for depression, you may not.)

One other thing: Controlling that anxiety is really primary. (Actually, sleep is primary. How's your sleep?) There are several options for treating the anxiety with other meds. I won't suggest anything on the public forum and my PM box is broken, but generally treating the anxiety isn't such a bad idea.

In the meantime, it seems like taking a breather, and maybe even a step back, is a good idea. Fear not. The numbers in front of the mg really don't make much sense in terms of SEs. If you go down a bit, and then back up, you will absolutely not find the same SEs at the same level. It's bizarre, but true. Kinda like taking a pill that effectively treats alcoholism. And I've witnessed some people who find they drank less after backing off.

Fear not. You'll get here.
:l

[Hippyman]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

laurie65;1482982 wrote: You are right Colin, I am predisposed to depression. You are right too that my drinking has been an avoidance of facing my depression. So preoccupied with hangovers and unit counting and begging the lord god above to be free of drinking while standing in the queue to pay for my wine. It takes up a lot of energy.
I recognise completely the loss of mojo, of sitting staring blankly at a computer screen, or pacing the floor like a caged tiger and ringing my hands in despair. Wanting to sleep all day...but buzzing at night, no motivation to even go for a walk, which I know helps me so.
Then drinking and smoking in the hope that it will mend the broken bit inside of me.
These feelings are no stranger to me.
I sometimes feel there is a deep trauma inside of me. Cause i don't know what the 'it' is that I'm constantly trying to escape from.
Sorry, I'm rambling.
I've been on Citralapine and Prozac before. They didn't touch the missing part. Supp's help. L-tyrosine seems to help, but now I'm scared to take it in case it interferes with the bac.
I'm going to level down a bit on the bac over the next week or so see if that helps.
Thanks Bleep and DRB. Your words are so very helpful xxx

I'm not sure I have any advise that can help you? I'm wondering at what dose are you strong enough to say no to alcohol? What kinds of things give you joy? It hasn't been easy but baclofen has given me the extra strength that I needed to say no to the constant compulsion to drink. That's all I ever hoped for it to do and it did! :l

[laurie65]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

Thank you again Ne. I find more and more that this forum is a lot like the fellowship...without needing to guilt it's members out or force feed Catholicism...look at the twelve step if in any doubts to it religious origins.
I always feel better when I put my feelings up on here. It just works. Final. Thank Isis!
I tend to blame the meds for every little twinge. It is certainly making me wake up and pay attention to the areas of my life that can be improved. But in typical me fashion, when I get scared, I freeze.
It will pass. Back down to 175 mgs for a week or two. Then review.

On the immortal words of the God of Pop Micheal Jackson..
Don't blame it on the sunshine; don't blame it on the moonlight, don't blame it on the good times; blame it on the BAC!!!
Cheers xxx

[Ne/Neva Eva]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

laurie65;1483024 wrote:
I always feel better when I put my feelings up on here. It just works. Final. Thank Isis!It works if you work it. True words, though. God I love the wisdom in that program. And the silly sayings.

laurie65;1483024 wrote: I tend to blame the meds for every little twinge.
Egad. Me too. But it's usually the bac to blame, so there you go.

laurie65;1483024 wrote: Back down to 175 mgs for a week or two.

um. 25mg is big. It's not BIG. But it's pretty Big. just sayin.

laurie65;1483024 wrote: Don't blame it on the sunshine; don't blame it on the moonlight, don't blame it on the good times; blame it on the BAC!!!

Yep. Exactly.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

Oh. And you're welcome. And thanks to you. I'm glad you're here.

[emc]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

hey laurie65,

first time here to your thread... to say hello and...

Baclofen is the best tool available to fight the cravings of alchool. you know that ;-)

I found by myself that it does have some other good power too... self esteem, anxiolitic and AD too...

The problem on the base is that, imho, alcohol problems alway hide something else behind.

Nothing to worry, i think, but just to be ready to face our problems that they are this ones that bring us to be so addictive with alcohol...

So.. what to do.. u can say...

stay on your confort dose... for a while, hoping that u're already consuming less...

try to understand what was ur autmatical reaction to start to drink... and try to break this vicious circle... the molecule will help to do this...

and mount with bac just if u feel well and ready to do it.

no yo-yo up and down (but i imagine u know this)...

just a though... passing here ;-)

i'll be back to you ;-)

[kronkcarr]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

Hey, laurie65,

I don't have much to share as I'm a lucky LDB kid, but my thoughts are with you and I wanted you to know. I second what others have said about underlying issues that brought us to alcohol. Mine were all waiting for me. And as emc said, my self esteem was also waiting for me to claim it. Crap still happens, but I'm better able to discern now. So if you can get through the hell you're in now it really can get so much better.

I've got my fingers crossed and you're in my thoughts,

kronkcarr

[joanna_d]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

ehrr... all i can say is i went from average 18-24 (periods more, sometimes less) to 1 on switch day 1 to zero on day 2.
and with the booze went the depression, the anxiety, most se's. and a LOT more mental weight.
i sure didn't see that coming, although i was so hoping for it, kind of trusting it, and moreover determined to keep going to find out.

and dear lord, you should see the difference.... it's undescribable. to me it was worth every minute of hangover, drop of vomit, the miserable swamp i dragged myself through everyday. and more.
of course it's easy to say this in hindsight.
still, i'm saying it, because it's true.

:l

[Sticky]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

Hi Laurie

Depression is most definitely an SE of bac!! I can't believe others have rarely mentioned it. I struggled with it at 140/150 and 170/190, even though I have been on an SSRI for 10 years continuously. My friend in NZ also on bac also attributes her depression to bac with valid reasons.
Actually this is not the first time I've come across an SE of bac being discounted by otherwise helpful people. Bac causes all sorts of SE's and IMHO they should not be discounted just because they haven't been heard of before. Just look at the new post about receding gums. I believe that one too.
I like you am struggling at the higher doses with SEs. Haven't given up yet, though...Hang on in there.

Take care
Sticky

[MaryGoRound]

A quick question from a Baclofen struggler....

I concur that depression, for some people, is a SE with balcofen. I know it is true in my case. I also think the depression can be exacerbated by drinking alcohol while on balcofen.

My understanding is bac works by regulating dopamine (our natural feel good chemical and also part of the reason the lights go on when we drink alcohol). Maybe as we go up (or down) our bodies can't get in sync with the changes. Others who do the research probably can provide a better explanation.

I also understand that when we get to our maintenance dose this SE goes away.