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    #1

    Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

    According to the textbook Pharmacology for Nursing Care published 2012:

    "Although baclofen does not appear to cause physical dependence, abrupt discontinuation has been associated with adverse reactions. Abrupt stoppage of oral baclofen can cause visual hallucinations, paranoid ideation and seizures. Accordingly, withdrawal should be done slowly. "

    just sayin' for the next time it comes up...

    EDIT: The textbook does say that (and you'll see pictures below) but the reality is that if you take baclofen long enough, you'll become dependent on it and have to titrate off. It is not, however, addictive.
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    #2
    Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

    It has come up.

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      #3
      Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

      Went to my GP yesterday and asked him if high dose bac was bad for my kidneys and liver. He said no but alcoholism is. I had been worried about that and it put it into perspective for me. Kind of a medical comment. Close enough to topic I hope.
      When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

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        #4
        Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

        And PS he knows I'm an alcoholic/addict ant that I was taking more than double what he prescribed. He didnt seem to worry at all.
        When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

        Comment

          #5
          Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

          Just a side note to what JDizz posted-

          I totally agree with him and I'm in the same boat- I will note however that my MD has told me that the meds I am on- a combo of bac and nal, with occasional "targetted" antabuse- do carry some concern for my liver. So, she's having me do monthly tests and they've come back elevated- and she's alarmed.

          Of course it's hard to say whether it's the meds or the alcohol, or some combination of both, since I'm still drinking while on the meds, So, for me the ultimate goal is more AF time.

          That said, totally agree that continued alcohol abuse is of course far and away the worst.

          Comment

            #6
            Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

            HI Ne: Thanks for the solid factual post -Baclofen is NOT addictive, as you confirmed.
            Thanks for the post.

            Comment

              #7
              Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

              skullbabyland;1527461 wrote: I will note however that my MD has told me that the meds I am on- a combo of bac and nal, with occasional "targetted" antabuse- do carry some concern for my liver. So, she's having me do monthly tests and they've come back elevated- and she's alarmed.
              Antabuse and Nal are both processed in, and can be taxing on, the liver. Baclofen is processed in the kidneys and has little to no effect on the liver. Please see the research about baclofen being effective and safe for those with cirrhosis:

              Effectiveness and safety of baclofen for maintenance ... [Lancet. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

              Antabuse in particular is not good for the liver. But booze, by far, is the worst.

              Comment

                #8
                Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

                Ne/Neva Eva;1527526 wrote: Antabuse and Nal are both processed in, and can be taxing on, the liver. Baclofen is processed in the kidneys and has little to no effect on the liver. Please see the research about baclofen being effective and safe for those with cirrhosis:

                Effectiveness and safety of baclofen for maintenance ... [Lancet. 2007] - PubMed - NCBI

                Antabuse in particular is not good for the liver. But booze, by far, is the worst.
                Oh, awesome, thanks for the comment and the link, Ne Very helpful.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

                  Ne/Neva Eva;1489460 wrote: According to the textbook Pharmacology for Nursing Care published 2012:

                  "Although baclofen does not cause physical dependence, abrupt discontinuation has been associated with adverse reactions. Abrupt stoppage of oral baclofen can cause visual hallucinations, paranoid ideation and seizures. Accordingly, withdrawal should be done slowly. "

                  just sayin' for the next time it comes up...
                  And... He's full of fucking shit. I'm getting sick and tired of trying to cover up and protect this addictive drug with terminology. First it was prozac doesn't cause withdrawal, then they got sued and started calling the withdrawal "discontinuation syndrome".

                  Addiction was a term coined opiates. When people hear addiction they think, oh if it's addictive that means i'll go through withdrawal if i stop taking it. Well the definition to that has changed.

                  Now physical dependence, we all know means your body become reliant on the substance.

                  If the fucking shit isn't addictive, nor does it cause physical dependence, then why does it cause withdrawal. SERIOUS fucking withdrawal at that.

                  Let's take a look at our definition of physical dependence.
                  Physical dependence refers to a state resulting from chronic use of a drug that has produced tolerance and where negative physical symptoms[1] of withdrawal result from abrupt discontinuation or dosage reduction.[
                  Now re-read your OP. I don't care what Dr. ameisan says or claims. The shits addictive. I mean what i mean when i use a word. Technically it's not addictive because you don't crave more of it. It's physically dependent. Anything that has withdrawal, means your body has become physically dependent on it. The reason being is it's a gaba agonist. Doesn't matter what kind of agonist it is. Gaba-b, dopamine agonist. Anything that is an agonist causes physical dependence. Why? The book won't explain this to you. But when you agonize a neurotransmitter, in this discussion gaba-b, your body relies on the drug to produce the level of gaba. It no longer naturally produces that level and your body gets used to a higher level of gaba, it handicaps the neurotransmitter and lets the drug do the work. The withdrawal is from your body recovering and making gamma-amino-butrytic ACID itself. That's the withdrawal period.

                  If something doesn't cause a physical dependence, you won't have a withdrawal from it.

                  I like baclofen, but don't be ignorant and quote some garbage ameisen said. He wants to push this cure for everybody and lead them to believe that they can take it and oneday just stop. Which isn't the case, tapering off from it to 0 takes a loooooooong time, and is a painful process. In his literature, he makes it sound like its as safe as eating jolly ranchers. You can eat those everyday for a year in mass amounts, and when you are left without jolly ranchers, you might want one, but you're not gonna have a seizure. You also minimized the withdrawal list too. It's a gaba agonist, and has all the hell that benzos has.

                  Think for yourself.
                  I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

                  Life affords no higher pleasure, than that of surmounting difficulties, passing from one step of success to another, forming new wishes, and seeing them gratified. He that labours in any great or laudable undertaking, has his fatigues first supported by hope, and afterwards rewarded by joy

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

                    Physical dependence can manifest itself in the appearance of both physical and psychological symptoms which are caused by physiological adaptions in the central nervous system and the brain due to chronic exposure to a substance. Symptoms which may be experienced during withdrawal or reduction in dosage include increased heart rate and/or blood pressure, sweating, and tremors. More serious withdrawal symptoms such as confusion, seizures, and visual hallucinations indicate a serious emergency and the need for immediate medical care.Physical dependence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                    That's from physical dependence on wikipedia.

                    if you repeatedly take this medicine during the late stages of pregnancy your baby may become physically dependent on Baclofen. This may lead to your baby having withdrawal symptoms from Baclofen after birth
                    baclofen - muscle spasm medicines and drugs - NHS Choices



                    Drugs that cause physical dependence

                    All ?-opioids with any (even slight) agonist effect, such as (partial list) morphine, heroin, codeine, oxycodone, buprenorphine, nalbuphine, methadone, and fentanil, but not agonists specific to non-? opioid receptors, such as salvinorin A (a k-opioid agonist), nor opioid antagonists or inverse agonists, such as naltrexone (a universal opioid inverse agonist)[5]
                    All GABA agonists and positive allosteric modulators of both the GABA-A ionotropic receptor and GABA-B metabotropic receptor subunits, of which the following drugs are examples (partial list):
                    alcohols such as ethyl alcohol (alcoholic beverage) (cf. alcohol dependence, alcohol withdrawal, delirium tremens)[6]
                    barbiturates such as phenobarbital, sodium thiopental and secobarbital
                    benzodiazepines such as diazepam (Valium), lorazepam (Ativan), and alprazolam (Xanax) (see benzodiazepine dependence and benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome)
                    nonbenzodiazepines (z-drugs) such as zopiclone and zolpidem.[7]
                    gamma-hydroxybutyric acid (GHB) and 1,4-butanediol[8]
                    carisoprodol (Soma) and related carbamates (tybamate and meprobamate)
                    baclofen (Lioresal) and its non-chlorinated analogue phenibut
                    chloral hydrate
                    glutethimide
                    clomethiazole
                    methaqualone (Quaalude)
                    gabapentin (Neurontin) and pregabalin (Lyrica), calcium channel modifiers that affect GABA[9]
                    antiepileptic drugs such as valproate, lamotrigine, tiagabine, vigabatrin, carbamazepine and oxcarbazepine, and topiramate[9][10][11]
                    possibly neuroleptic drugs such as clozapine, risperidone, olanzapine, haloperidol, thioridazine, etc.
                    commonly prescribed antidepressants such as the selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and serotonin-norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) (cf. SSRI/SNRI withdrawal syndrome)[12][13][14]
                    blood pressure medications, including beta blockers such as propanolol and alpha-adrenergic agonists such as clonidine[15][16]
                    androgenic-anabolic steroids[17][18]
                    glucocorticoids[19]
                    Physical dependence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


                    Withdrawal symptoms may include auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, tactile hallucinations, delusions, confusion, agitation, delirium, disorientation, fluctuation of consciousness, insomnia, dizziness, nausea, feeling faint, inattention, memory impairments, perceptual disturbances, pruritus/itching, anxiety, depersonalization, hypertonia, hyperthermia, formal thought disorder, psychosis, mania, mood disturbances, restlessness, and behavioral disturbances, tachycardia, seizures, tremors, autonomic dysfunction, hyperpyrexia, extreme muscle rigidity resembling neuroleptic malignant syndrome and rebound spasticity.[15][16]Baclofen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

                    Be honest, not stupid. You want to mention all the good and leave the bad out or downplay it to the best of your ability. You're heavily dependent on baclofen. When or if you decide to quit, you'll see how long that withdrawal is gonna last, plus you'll get to speak from experience like myself. Finally you'll see tapering isn't so textbook cut and dry. Have fun defending the drug you "stockpile" out of fear of withdrawal, because that just contradicts everything you made this thread for.
                    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence, or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." - Hunter S. Thompson

                    Life affords no higher pleasure, than that of surmounting difficulties, passing from one step of success to another, forming new wishes, and seeing them gratified. He that labours in any great or laudable undertaking, has his fatigues first supported by hope, and afterwards rewarded by joy

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                      #11
                      Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

                      I posted this on another thread related to On.Bac's participation and thoughts on this forum.

                      Ne/Neva Eva;1527687 wrote: I really don't think that there is any dialogue here. I'm not sure there could have been. Clearly On.bac is absolutely convinced that he is sharing factual information, despite the fact that he's often incorrect. He's basing his information on his own opinions about addiction and/or baclofen, not on the research and scientific evidence. He's even somewhat incorrect about the way in which the medications he mentions (all of them) work, how and why they are used and what their usefulness can be in order to deal with addiction.

                      Given that On.bac also consistently contradicts himself, I can't see how having a discussion and pointing these errors out will help anything. I would very much like to address the points, particularly the ones directed at me, in a civil and meaningful way. That isn't likely to do anything but exacerbate the situation.

                      To be clear, there is plenty of evidence around here that baclofen is not for everyone and that it is unsafe to take it and stop abruptly. But in spite of that, it is safe to take baclofen, and it is safe to titrate down on baclofen. It has been used to treat muscle spasticity in that manner for more than 50 years. One has to look no further than the information about baclofen for the treatment of spinal injury to find evidence of the safety of the drug.

                      I've flagged On.bac's posts, and hope a moderator steps in. Here is what I wrote:

                      "This guy has gone from being relatively reasonable to confrontational, irate and beyond rude. If this post, and the others that he's posted in the last 24 hours, doesn't indicate "harassment, fighting and rude" I'm not sure what would qualify."

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

                        I think we have posted enough responses to this person. If I got here via google, which I'm sure is what people are worried about, I would know this person was stupid. I think it's very clear.
                        When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

                          I'm not even going to respond to a personality like on.Bac or whatever the name is. I've read a couple of posts to know that they're correct about some things and pulled some others out of their ass. Yet they claim omniscience without a shred of humility.

                          It's just one more on the ignore list for me.

                          I'd like to wholeheartedly disagree with the reference in your initial post though NE. Everybody knows baclofen causes physical dependence. You and I both have access to the same research and resources. I don't understand where you're coming from with this. You know better than that.
                          :nutso: I take pride in my humility :nutso:
                          :what?:
                          sigpic
                          Graph of My Drinking From July '09 to January '10

                          Consolidated Baclofen Information Thread




                          Baclofen for Alcoholism and Other Addictions
                          A Forum
                          Trolls need not apply

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                            #14
                            Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

                            I didn't know about the ignore list. Thanks loop. Problem solved.
                            When you're riding in a time machine way far into the future, don't stick your elbow out the window, or it'll turn into a fossil.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Baclofen does not cause physical dependence...

                              Hi liq-lost: You sure sound like our previous caller - on.bac. Please define gibberish. Come on, unless you have something informative to add or need real information, move on to another forum. It does sound like you might be an asset to the forum so please let us hear your experience and need for information.

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