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**Otter** · April 17, 2013, 10:10 AM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

You may want to get a prescription for Mirtazapine 30 mg morning 15 evening for depression. It was what worked for us, on top of baclofen.

**kronkcarr** · April 17, 2013, 10:38 AM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Hi, my friend,

It's been my experience that there's no "right" way to titrate. You could stay where you are and your emotional state will most likely change. Or you can go down and see. I'd probably go down since you weren't craving alcohol at your previous level.

My switch was at 80 mgs and I stayed there 6 weeks. I wasn't depressed but I was unmotivated and blah. When I titrated down I was energetic and did things I hadn't done in 2 months. These were things that really bring me joy.

Keep posting. Other than this bump you sound great!

**TexasAg** · April 17, 2013, 11:04 AM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Spirit :goodjob: on the 17 days.

In answer to your question, all of the above.

I don't know all the science but the way I see it the Bac itself calmed my brain. My brain was adjusting, reseting, or however you want to think of it. I went through a funk for a while cuz I didn't understand what was happening. I was so used to feeling extremes, highs and lows that i felt weird without them.

Feeling down is also part of the recovery process. A Bac veteran told me, once the Bac helped us stopped drinking, the hard part starts. Living life sober and such without a crutch. I know I had underlying issues that I would medicate with alcohol so it was dificult for me to deal with sober. Also, seeing the destruction my alcoholism caused over the years didn't help. I used to think, I wish I would have found Bac 12 months prior to all hell breaking loose. But if I start thinking that way, then I wish I would have found Bac 22 years ago! :H

But even people that stop drinking through AA go through the depression/low. That is another reason why so many relapse.

My advice is to be nice to yourself and understand that this isn't a sprint. I'm amazed that you went so high so quickly. I couldn't have done that! But again we're all different and I know of at least one other person that was able to increase so fast and it worked. However you don't want to jeopardize the results by racing to see if it works.

It would usually take me 2 to 3 days to feel the difference in dosage. So in answer to your question if you should go down because you think the Bac is causing you to feel depressed, I'm not sure you won't still feel down for a while because of all the other factors. But you may want to try and can go down in lower doses to see...10mg?

Not sure that helps but sending positive vibes and wishes your way!

Cheers!

**Colin** · April 17, 2013, 12:07 PM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

I've been on citalopram (40 mg per day) for 4/5 years for depression. At one point I added 7.5 mg mirtazapine to the mix as a way of getting off sleeping pills. The next three times I cut the mirtazapine out of the mix I was immediately depressive. Needless to say, I'm still on the tiny dose of 7.5 mg mirtazapine. My psychiatrist smiles every three months and gives me more.

**baclofan** · April 17, 2013, 03:46 PM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Otter;1493430 wrote: You may want to get a prescription for Mirtazapine 30 mg morning 15 evening for depression. It was what worked for us, on top of baclofen.

It's a wonderfull med indeed, but a temporary solution at best in my personal experience - opinion.

Unfortunatelly infamous for early tachyphylaxis (poop-out).

Closest to a "happy pill"...enjoy while it works because you're gonna miss that feeling within a couple of months.

The ol' good mirta just quit on me after 3 - 4 months and it's quite common.

Again just 'google' a bit...

**spiritwolf333** · April 17, 2013, 09:13 PM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

General Reply and Thanks

You each added so much valuable information I think that caught myself calming down.

Kronkcarr -your description "blahs and UNMOTIVATED" are probably more descriptive of my recent experience. However, I am thinking (rut-ro) that the two calls that I received shot me straight out into an anxiety spiral. I then worried so much -with so much focus- that I wore myself out and after becoming tired...well you know the rest.
I may try the 120mg one more time tomorrow. I am still a little confused about the switch except that you folks have said you knew when you got there. Today, right before lunch I took my 40mg of bac and a clonidine (bp still out of wack) -my usual time is 3pm. 20 minutes after eating, I truly felt a huge calmness and much more energetic. (Food/Bac/both? -this will be great if it continues to improve like this)

Otter -I discussed alternative meds for the anxiety/depression. They each agreed that I should start taking Citalopram. I have been so closed minded about antidepressants (as a result of a negative experience with Effexor 14 years ago, that I closed that door). Otherwise, I have become the most open-minded person that I know. Any experience-knowledge re Citalopram would be most helpful. I started researching and got no where -so many pros and so many cons.

Texas Ag -You are spot-on. My counselor mentioned to me today that I "needed to get me some patience". Yea, I may be hitting a funk stage -no, I am hitting one. I think without a doubt that I am feeling extremely lost not having the daily extremes of highs and lows- and do feel really out sink. Have not even thought about that. Almost asking myself; "who the hell am and where is the person I was two weeks. In looking back, I always felt this way (but worse) after two or three days -then right back to the al. Without a single doubt in my mind, the BAC has allow 10/11 days semi "effortless" alcohol withdrawal -and much hope.

Yes -Life (reality) is starting
Yes -Has been my crutch for 35 years
Yes -I now "accept" that I have been using alcohol to deal with underlying issues
Yes -I have been ruminating over some of my past discrepancies (alright -destruction)
Me.- I am having to quickly deal with some business issues that were a result of al and I would preferred to have a little more time -but it will all work out.

And the calming advice you wrote: "Be nice to myself and understand this is not a sprint"

My first thought after reading this was; "I was so accustomed to that short term gratification (long-term hell)" that I am going to need to remember "This is not going to be a sprint" -so try to chill out.

I did not realize that I was moving at a faster pace than the average. Regardless, stepping up from the 80mg to the 120mg sent me into some kind of "who am I". However, I am also sure many other factors (panic calls received/end of weekend/etc) added to this. I have decided that I am going to try staying at the 120mg for another day or two, and should I increase or decrease, I am going to do so at 10mg p/dose.

Colin -I read your message and felt a huge sense of relief. I am starting citalopram at 10mg per day/3 days...then 20mg...then see where to go next. They have been giving 50mg of vistaril for sleeping and it is working great. I don't wake up one single time during the night. I have been told (I have read and been advised that it is not addictive-but who knows for sure except experienced takers)

Folks, if you do read this, I hope it does not bore you. If you don't, that's ok too. It sure seems to help me just to write and repeat a lot of what you say. Seems to bring what you say closer to home in my mind.:thanks::thanks:

**bleep** · April 18, 2013, 05:14 AM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

I see I am a little late to this party, but thought that I would add my 2c anyway, for what it's worth. You seem to have a handle on the issue already, and you have the right attitude, and that is more than half the battle won right there Wolf.

I can't comment on AD's as I have no experience with them at all. Baclofen on it's own is perfectly capable of putting you in a funk though. It changes the brain, so an SE like this shouldn't surprise people. From what I've seen, it is temporary, and provided you are aware that it is an SE, just needs to be lived through. Moving up rapidly definitely seems to increase the chances of encountering this. I had my one and only panic attack as a direct result of titrating too fast.

My question back at you is this - if you aren't craving alcohol, and it appears you are not, why are you going higher? If you feel you aren't there yet, I can understand it, but it sounds like you have already reached indifference. Congratulations on the 18 days, by the way. The best way to actually test this is to have a drink, but I can understand if that goes against what you are trying to do. If you are happily able to have a drink, and leave it at that, then you can safely say that you are there. If it ignites the thirst, you will know that you are still on the path. And that's one of the great things about this - if you decide you aren't there, you just continue going up. It's not like you have derailed the train and have to start back at square one.

**TexasAg** · April 18, 2013, 09:39 AM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Completely agree with Bleep.

Attitude is more than half the battle. SE's are real and suck but I had read so much about them and was anxious about them that I was paranoid about them. It wasn't until I changed my attitude and accepted that, hey there will be SE's, and trusted the Bac veterans that they would go away, that I was able to plow through.

That being said, I reached 160mg and could not stay there. Fuzzy brain, memory blanks, sleepiness in meetings, I couldn't stay at this dosage. These SE's were a curse and a blessing because it was as I started titrating down that I realized I had no cravings at all and probably hit indifference at 120mg. But my indifference was not a switch, it was more of a dimmer switch. I realized it because I was going to events, bbq's, bdays, ball games, and wasn't thinking about drinking. The habit to drink still remained (i.e. a beer by the pool sounds great!) but the craving wasn't there once I said no.

To make a long story short, I think the Bac switch is comprised of two things (maybe three :H); Bac dosage and time to let your brain adjust. (the third is a bit of will power to say no to the "habit" of drinking if abstinance is your goal!).

I use to count days AF. But I realized there's a difference between drinking against my will and drinking out of stupid habit. I'm happy to say I haven't drank against my will since August 11th. Of course there have been a few stupid habit episodes since then :H :upset:. But like Bleep said, one of the greatest things about this is if I feel I'm not there, I go up and get back on my horse. I don't have to feel that terrible hopelessness I use to feel.

Cheers and JKTTP!

**spiritwolf333** · April 18, 2013, 09:55 AM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Valuable Insight

bleep;1493806 wrote: I see I am a little late to this party, but thought that I would add my 2c anyway, for what it's worth. You seem to have a handle on the issue already, and you have the right attitude, and that is more than half the battle won right there Wolf.

I can't comment on AD's as I have no experience with them at all. Baclofen on it's own is perfectly capable of putting you in a funk though. It changes the brain, so an SE like this shouldn't surprise people. From what I've seen, it is temporary, and provided you are aware that it is an SE, just needs to be lived through. Moving up rapidly definitely seems to increase the chances of encountering this. I had my one and only panic attack as a direct result of titrating too fast.

My question back at you is this - if you aren't craving alcohol, and it appears you are not, why are you going higher? If you feel you aren't there yet, I can understand it, but it sounds like you have already reached indifference. Congratulations on the 18 days, by the way. The best way to actually test this is to have a drink, but I can understand if that goes against what you are trying to do. If you are happily able to have a drink, and leave it at that, then you can safely say that you are there. If it ignites the thirst, you will know that you are still on the path. And that's one of the great things about this - if you decide you aren't there, you just continue going up. It's not like you have derailed the train and have to start back at square one.

Bleep -Not to late for sure -the more information and experience summaries I receive the better. You have provided some great insight. Changing the brain circuitry/structure vs just blocking receptors -great point that I have not thought about. My rate of titration, should I move up or down has now been officially reduced in dosage!!!

And Bleep -my nurse had asked me that exact question (why would I move up if no cravings). I had responded to her that I thought perhaps more of my anxiety could be addressed (and in my mind, I was thinking that I might not have to take any other meds).

My goal is permanent abstinence from al. Now that you mention taking the ultimate test -which I had never thought about nor considered doing until now, I may want to try this -in a controlled environment. Controlled environment, not because I think I would go out and get wasted, because I would hopefully retain accountability (to myself). I must consider this a very valid option. The train would not be derailed and I would know.

Thank You Bleep and Peace to Ya.:thanks::thanks:

**spiritwolf333** · April 18, 2013, 10:01 AM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Good and Real Advice

With all of your insight, I believe that I am getting down to brass tacks.

My past history tends to dictate some of the changes I need to work on for the future and this one is near the top: My Expectations and Actions are out of proportion with Reality. Time to slow down, listen and hear, and "get me some patience". I spent 40 years walking into the forest -so guess what? :thanks:

**bleep** · April 18, 2013, 11:50 AM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

I completely understand going higher to see what it can do for you, I did exactly that as well. As the primary purpose has been achieved already, I would take it nice and slow though.

As to drinking again, I wouldn't regard it as the Ultimate Test. Just a test. It would give you peace of mind that this is well and truly behind you, and I think that is important. I also think you would be able to eventually stop taking baclofen if your intention was to never drink again, but that is just conjecture at this point, you would have to see for yourself.

Best of luck.

**spiritwolf333** · April 18, 2013, 02:03 PM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

bleep;1493950 wrote: I completely understand going higher to see what it can do for you, I did exactly that as well. As the primary purpose has been achieved already, I would take it nice and slow though.

As to drinking again, I wouldn't regard it as the Ultimate Test. Just a test. It would give you peace of mind that this is well and truly behind you, and I think that is important. I also think you would be able to eventually stop taking baclofen if your intention was to never drink again, but that is just conjecture at this point, you would have to see for yourself.

Best of luck.

I am thinking that the "Peace of Mind" could really help me down the road, if it only just reduced the fear of being around alcohol. My truest intention is not to drink in the future and do hope I get info down the road relative to the stopping of Baclofen.
Thank You:thanks::thanks:

**spiritwolf333** · April 18, 2013, 02:29 PM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

TexasAg;1493888 wrote: Completely agree with Bleep.

Attitude is more than half the battle. SE's are real and suck but I had read so much about them and was anxious about them that I was paranoid about them. It wasn't until I changed my attitude and accepted that, hey there will be SE's, and trusted the Bac veterans that they would go away, that I was able to plow through.

That being said, I reached 160mg and could not stay there. Fuzzy brain, memory blanks, sleepiness in meetings, I couldn't stay at this dosage. These SE's were a curse and a blessing because it was as I started titrating down that I realized I had no cravings at all and probably hit indifference at 120mg. But my indifference was not a switch, it was more of a dimmer switch. I realized it because I was going to events, bbq's, bdays, ball games, and wasn't thinking about drinking. The habit to drink still remained (i.e. a beer by the pool sounds great!) but the craving wasn't there once I said no.

To make a long story short, I think the Bac switch is comprised of two things (maybe three :H); Bac dosage and time to let your brain adjust. (the third is a bit of will power to say no to the "habit" of drinking if abstinance is your goal!).

I use to count days AF. But I realized there's a difference between drinking against my will and drinking out of stupid habit. I'm happy to say I haven't drank against my will since August 11th. Of course there have been a few stupid habit episodes since then :H :upset:. But like Bleep said, one of the greatest things about this is if I feel I'm not there, I go up and get back on my horse. I don't have to feel that terrible hopelessness I use to feel.

Cheers and JKTTP!

Hi TexasAg - Now this clears some things up for me. Especially, the Habit Vs Indifference. I don't like counting days either; I always wanted to look forward and not dwell on the past. Regardless, congrats on AUG 11 -but more importantly it adds that much more encouragement and will to preserve. I, like you (in your beginning, have had so much confidence in the "Bac Veterans" words on this forum and in other research, that I knew I had to try this approach -and with no strings attached. I will accept the SEs, I just need to be reminded that there are SEs and what they are.

I do hope other new takers of bac get a chance to read your post.

I feel like the 120mg is where I need to be. Two days in a row, I have really felt great after lunch. I changed my dosing schedule from 9am/3pm/9pm to 7am/12/pm/6pm. I you ever noticed any changes as a result of time when taken?
Thanks Texas:thanks:

**Mayzay** · April 18, 2013, 05:22 PM

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

This is such an interesting thread and stuff I need to read tomorrow-Thanks all Mx

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