Baclofen -Help needed-Please

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

spiritwolf333;1506745 wrote: Hi Kronk -If you have not already done so, I hope you will consider posting your one month to five month experience. I would love to read what sounds like an incredible journey.
Me, too!

spiritwolf333;1506745 wrote: You see, this week I have been wondering if this new found life of mine would slowly diminish and would this mean that I would somehow be back to square one.
Oh! I experienced that all the time! For months! In fact, I rushed around trying to do everything and anything I'd always wanted to do because I was really convinced that I was going to wake up and it would all be gone. My to-do lists were rather extraordinary because they included ALL the things.

And guess what? Yep. Within a year. The big ones and the little ones, accomplished. (Some, like going back to school, are ongoing.)

spiritwolf333;1506745 wrote: I, in some of my negative thought patterns, begin to question this miracle that I am experiencing. Imagine that; something (baclofen) that has so profoundly altered the course of my entire life ---and I start to question the reality of the experience?

I still do that, two years later. Actually, what happens now is that I forget to be grateful. I forget (because I have no real recollection of what it's like to not own my life) that these days are profound. Simply because they're so...normal! Checking in here and reading accounts of people who are going through it at all of the stages is a daily reminder. Thank you for sharing your experience.

spiritwolf333;1506745 wrote: it does not matter one rats ass about the future.

Amen. (Or whatever.) The future messes me up. I can't help but stress when I think about the future. Right now? THAT is the real key. I don't think there's a religion, a spiritual path, or a self-help book that doesn't stress that RIGHT NOW is where to live. Why it's so hard is really beyond me. :H

spiritwolf333;1506745 wrote: I now find myself looking forward to waking up every day with an astonishing amount of excitement and hope –in spite of all the financial and other challenges I now face.

I really wish I could tap back into that newbie excitement and hope. It's so much fun! The only reason I don't wake up with excitement and hope is because I don't really need it. (Does that make sense?) I am completely free of the burden of alcoholic drinking or thinking. I don't remember what it's like. There isn't much excitement in waking up and thinking about a day which is just like yesterday and tomorrow. I don't need hope because, well, everything is pretty damn good. ha! What would I hope for? A lack of hopelessness? I've got it. Continued (relative) contentedness? That's up to me.

And one last note about that. The financial and other difficulties? Have you been to AA? I longed for the promises in AA for soooo long, and despite doing the work and (short) periods of sobriety, I never really found them. But I can't help but think of them now, because they happened. (Without attending AA, this time around.) One of them is that I experience freedom from financial insecurity. Despite the fact that I don't work anymore, am in school full time, and we bought our first house last summer.

I hope you'll experience that and other freedoms, too. I think you will. It's absolutely amazing and (still) exciting. Thanks again for helping me remember that.

Peace out!

[Cassander]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

spiritwolf333;1506742 wrote: Cass -I am working on my reply to you. I will be bac to you soon. Thanks

Thanks, Spirit. I know I asked a lot of questions. I couldn't help it! I'm hopelessly curious...

[kronkcarr]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Ne & spirit,

i'll see what I can do about starting or adding in to my thread. Ne, I know you'd asked me once before. I appreciate your interest. it's 6 months worth and I don't feel I have the time, but thanks for the motivation.

[spiritwolf333]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

To Cass-

In reply to your questions:

Hi Cass ?You seem to provide a lot of helpful information to folks and I can only hope that by answering your questions in your post, that the information I provide might in turn help others. In response to your questions, my answers are as follows:

1. I did not attend a 30 day inpatient facility. What I did attend was a fourteen day outpatient detox facility. Additionally, I self-imposed an additional 14 days of rehab oversight. (I stayed two more weeks and attended daily psychotherapy meetings.
Before proceeding further, let me offer a little background. About three years prior to March 2013, I attended my first and only other ?formal? inpatient treatment center ?for 60 days. Without a doubt, this was one of the greatest experiences of my recovery journey. Unfortunately, I was not given any medication (I never asked and they never offered). Furthermore, upon returning home (1500 miles), I did not stick to the game plan. (Boundary setting with parents, etc.). Worst of all , I did not have any substantive help to curve my severe anxiety episodes ?except one and I eventually returned to it; Firewater. The ?great? parts I brought home with me included nutritional information, yoga, tai-chi, new exercise routines, arts (drawing), music (guitar), bio-feedback protocols (brain painting), etc., etc. Most of these concepts I had never been introduced to, but I still practice every one of these even today. This facility allowed me to keep my computers, i-Pad, and phone with me for 90% of my stay. This facilities name is Clarity Way and they are in Hanover, PA.

2. Protocol and daily routines: I spent 2 to 4 hours a day in psychotherapy, some time with doctor and nurses ?especially the first 14 days.

3. The medical doctor was familiar with Baclofen and had prescribed it for cocaine withdrawal to a few former patients. Before I arrived in Savannah, I had forwarded all of my research papers regarding Baclofen to the facility owner and I believe she passed this information on to all of her colleagues. They are not a ?Baclofen? rehab per say. They primarily prescribe Naltrexone and agreed to try Baclofen with me. The doctor I worked with was familiar with Dr. A and his prescribing protocol.

4. Group sessions were held once a week ?most were taking naltrexone and no one else was taking BAC.

5. Exercise ?Self scheduled

6. 12 Step- NO and no on info for sleep and nutrition

7. I was and remain Alcohol free. Random testing was performed. I was all voluntary so it did not bother me.

8. Problematic Side Effects ?Absolutely.. I think that I was more aware of the SEs than the center. MWO provided much needed guidance. In fairness to the center, I did not ask for their advice.

9. Other Meds: Yes they were informed of medications and were well aware of potential interactions

10. Conclusion/Opinion: Cass ? There is no doubt in my mind ?whatsoever- that a facility that offered Baclofen and the other ?elements? (those that I received at Clarity Way) would be a HUGE success. After the first two to three weeks, I was finally in a position to ?retrain by brain?. The Savannah center is just not geared as a recovery center ?inpatient or outpatient. I was fortunate to have stayed at Clarity Way for those 8 weeks and be exposed to so much information and experience. For me, I felt like my best chance would be to remove myself from my routine environment and focus 100% on recovery. The cost to go away, yet one more time, was enormous ?loss of business, work, embarrassment, shame, etc. However the loss was in no way comparative to what I gained ?and that was/is my life ?and a real shot at a real life ?one that I have NEVER experienced ?and really, all due to (primarily) Baclofen.

I have the utmost respect for those who have had to go the home route with Baclofen without a formal script. What a huge burden for a person who is already sick to have to carry. For instance, if I were doing the ?at home approach?, I would have been unnerved waiting on my overseas scripts to arrive, wondering the entire time if they were legitimate and if they were going to work. Furthermore, as I would sit at home, alone, and drink some more waiting for the scripts, I would only have one other brain cell to communicate with and that would be my own. I would then sit in shame and guilt as my wife would get home from work and ask did I even go to work at all today. (She finally stopped asking this when she realized that I was in more pain than one could know and I that I wanted help ?the family was just not use to seeing me in this condition). I?m sure that when the Baclofen did start working, I could have minimized or stopped drinking ?or, maybe not.

With that being said, I think that I could have made it at home on my own and with the help of MWO and Dr. A?s book. My prior experience at Clarity and former pit stops at the 12step centers would have added to my projected ?stay-at-home? recovery. What a Utopia it would be to have a holistic recovery center that implemented Baclofen and was covered by insurance. Trying to learn how to adjust to this new life on my own is difficult enough. How great would it be to have formal counseling that understands this Baclofen approach? I still find myself feeling like a secretive-having to hide- druggy. I have already ordered my overseas supply of Baclofen just in case? - I have not told my hometown doc about Baclofen prescription yet. All said, it is a damn shame that we the sick have to go through what we go through just to help ourselves help ourselves. We suffer from an illness more grave and demoralizing than any other disease known to mankind and yet we have to ?heal ourselves? or die. (And by the way, I am so much less ashamed now than before. I even discussed Baclofen with some folks that I would have never revealed my situation to. Not only did I find them supportive of me, but they were quite interested in Baclofen for a few of their ?family? members.

11. What is HDB? And yes, my medical doctor had read Dr. A?s book. No, the facility had never done a thirty day nor 14 day Baclofen course ($1000 p/day ?no meals, etc)

12. $$ Dollars Charged ?I?m ashamed to say that they charged me as much as a full course 30 day impatient facility would have charged.

13. I don?t want to mention their name anymore until they address some of the issues you brought out above. If someone wanted to request this information privately, I would feel obligated to give them the name and number. Furthermore, I?m just not so sure that they want to lose the Naltrexone dollars they are receiving and may end up giving Baclofen a bad rep.

14. I will follow up with the names of the other facilities that I found. One was in FL, one in California, and one in Atlanta (also, one in New York).
Cass ?I hope as time goes on, I can better remember and reflect on my Savannah journey.

As of this writing, I want to remember it as the most life giving journeys that I have ever traveled. At a point of desperation, I found a facility five hours from my home that promised to supervise my initial recovery while taking Baclofen. I did not care how much Baclofen experience they had received prior. (I had already read what the real experts had written and experienced). Regardless of their price, they did what agreed to do, and My Way Out members delivered on their words to me. For this, I will always be grateful and it is this light that I want to keep it.

Thanks for asking.

[spiritwolf333]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

In Reply to NEVA

Hi Neva ?how awesome and reassuring it was to read your reply:

1. About the List Making ? Neva, I have never written as much as I have written these past five weeks. I?m on a ?writing high?. I?ve got so many lists of to-do-s and want-to-do-s it is mind boggling. I even had to make lists regarding my other detailed lists. I?m writing detailed Journey Journal logs as if they are going to published ?lol x 10. Am I writing because I am bored? No way ?just the opposite. I feel like a caged animal that has finally been freed and excited about his new found journey. I?m just glad you shared this info so that I would not feel like such a horse?s ass sharing mine. And to now know that you are one year later pursuing your passions ?apparently not having lost interest or desire- is quite encouraging to someone like me.

2. ?Not to Own My Own Life? - How I now just look at this and realize just how far I am now from really feeling that I am in charge of me. Right now, I am just going through the motions of ?as if I am in charge of me?. I?ve allowed so many people and things to be in control of me, that it really is exciting to know that I will someday really feel like I am ?the boss of me?. If there is one other gift outside of Baclofen that I would like to keep ?that would have to be my sincere gratitude that I now have. I know that is human nature to stray from these forms of intense gratitude, as I have done so in the past. In this case, I will strive daily to be grateful for these two gifts.

3. NOW ?It really is the only way to a joyful future. I?ve tried all the other ways ?including the false immediate gratification approach.

4. Neva, if you are living a life where you are not waking every morning with dread and full force fear, there does not have to be that exaggerated level of newbie hope/excitement. Or at least this is what I hoping. And maybe life would get a little boring if I did wake every day with sunshine blowing out my ass. For now, I will take each day that I wake not in fear and panic, as a gift from the Baclofen gods. To be free of all alcoholic thinking and acting has to be a ?surreal? existence. Though I don?t crave alcohol, I still engage in alcoholic thinking. As you now say ?everything is pretty damn good? and I bet compared to times past, this is truly and understatement. And what a great comment: ?what would I now hope for ?hopelessness?? and ?Continued Contentedness ?that?s up to me? and that sounds like some real self-accountability ?in a good way.

5. Neva ?your final paragraph could have been written by me. My first book I bought about sobriety ?fifteen years ago, was titled ?The Gifts (Promises) of Sobriety?. (Purchased in secret as any good alcoholic would do ?lol). I then attended my first AA meeting and thought they had to be lying about their happiness without alcohol. And no, the steps, confessions, and meetings did nothing to eliminate my cravings/thoughts (and in fact, only added to my desire to drink). But what a great reminder to me ?the promises so often talked about are becoming a ?REALITY? for me now. I look forward to the financial insecurity promise coming true. Amazing how my fear of people has already began in my life. And a ?NEW? happiness ?now I think I know what they were talking about.

6. As you say, I will be amazed. I am more than amazed now and I don?t think that I am anywhere near half way through.

This was a huge-uplifting message you sent. You are defiantly paying it forward and I thank you.

[spiritwolf333]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Journey Update

Well, today marks 52 days of a truly life altering journey with Baclofen and MWO. You see, 53 days ago I would never dreamed that I would be sitting here at 11:50 pm on a Wednesday night, writing a journal post about my sobriety. Today, I am here to report that I had 52 days of continued gifts and continued sobriety (that is, 52 days in a row ?alcohol free days). Only on rare occasions do I have true thoughts of how a drink might solve some of my worries. I am much more open now to thinking the drink thought all the way through ?to just how bad things really could be if I did drink. In summary, I report the following:

1. Baclofen Dosage: 220 mg (taken 4 times per day as: 80mg am/30mg am/80mg pm/ 30mg pm)

2. Current SEs: Neg: Constipation, Neck Ache (at night), Sleep Fluctuations, Overeating(was never a problem), some lethargy, minor joint aches (lack of exercise?), short breaths, snoring, falling to sleep in theatres (and wife waking me up ?lol?I can now sleep most anywhere, anytime and I could never do this before)
Pos: No Cravings-No AL, Vivid-Lucid Dreams (mostly good), Nicorette usage way down, Positive Outlook, AND SO MUCH MORE

I am still just in awe at how amazing my life is today relative to 53 days ago. As some have posted ?and it only gets better- just damn, how awesome.

On a more somber but eye opening note, I received a call this morning regarding the son of a good friend of mine. I grew up with this friend (and only neighbor) within 20 miles from age 0 to 14. I was told that his son had committed suicide (shot himself in the face). Again, chalk another death up to our horrid friend ?Firewater. At 23 years of age, another life was taken from our world and alcohol was involved. I am broken hearted and afraid to even call my friend ?I just don?t know what or how to say anything. (any advice would be appreciated) What I do know is this; I have a 23 year old son, who had some battles with drugs early on, but I had dinner tonight with him and his friend. He seems happy, and he is alive today.
Peace to us All.

[Cassander]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

spiritwolf333;1509288 wrote: ...
Thanks for asking.

Not at all...thanks for answering...so well! I am very appreciative.

We (we all) are going to figure out how to conquer this thing...addiction...and help a lot of people following on after us...I am sure of it.

I actually have much more to say. I'll be back when I figure out how to say it...

Cassander

[kronkcarr]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

spirit,

Take a breath and just make the call to your friend. Most likely he'll do most of the talking. Be there for comfort and whatever else he needs.

kronk

[StuckinLA]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

That is a nigh-impossible call to make, but it is one that you do make. The clich? is that the right words will come when it's time--but that's probably bull. Give your condolences, if they're nearby as about the arrangements. Ask if there's anything you can do, or if there's a charity he'd (she?) like donations sent to in lieu of flowers, and that kind of thing. Kronk's right: it most likely will be a very quiet conversation, and your friend will most likely do most of the talking, if there's much talking. The point is that you'll be on one end of that phone.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

StuckinLA;1509733 wrote: That is a nigh-impossible call to make, but it is one that you do make. The clich? is that the right words will come when it's time--but that's probably bull. Give your condolences, if they're nearby as about the arrangements. Ask if there's anything you can do, or if there's a charity he'd (she?) like donations sent to in lieu of flowers, and that kind of thing. Kronk's right: it most likely will be a very quiet conversation, and your friend will most likely do most of the talking, if there's much talking. The point is that you'll be on one end of that phone.

What Stuck and Kronk said.
I did not do that last year when I lost a friend to suicide. I have a very hard time forgiving myself for that decision.

[spiritwolf333]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Thanks all. I am going to make the call right after posting this. I don't need to add any more regrets to my list. I will just listen and hope he does most of the talking.

[spiritwolf333]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Cassander;1509315 wrote: Not at all...thanks for answering...so well! I am very appreciative.

We (we all) are going to figure out how to conquer this thing...addiction...and help a lot of people following on after us...I am sure of it.

I actually have much more to say. I'll be back when I figure out how to say it...

Cassander

Cass -I look forward to your comments (I think).. The depth and knowledge of your questions lead me to believe that you are involved ,possibly, on a daily basis in the recovery industry...just curios?

[spiritwolf333]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

Neva-Stuck-Kronk -you all were so spot-on about the phone call to my friend. I first had to call my friends Mom (the grandmother) of suicide. She was so glad that I called to get my friends phone number and she did almost all of the talking (I had expected that to be a short-winded call). In our conversation, she explained that her grandson had only been back from battle for about a year and that his drinking had gotten way out of control. I think she had been made aware of my struggles and so she felt a bit of relief being able to confide some of this information to me.

After speaking with the grandmother, I immediately called Stan (my friend) and he answered my call (to my surprise). It was a very short conversation. He just said that he was as lost as any person could be and to please keep him and his family in our thoughts. I could tell that he did not want to talk but that he was VERY GLAD to get the call. As I look at it now, I did not have anything to lose by making the call and there was no damn way I could make things any worse.

Again, I learn so many things from others like you. This one call opened up a totally new way of looking at things for me. For instance, by making a call to a friend, despite my fear, I was able to do something that ended up benefiting me as much, if not more, than the person I called. By doing something I feared, I added courage and a sense of accomplishment to my life. And at this point, I need as much of both as I can get. It was "just" a phone call, but what a great call it was.
Thanks

[Cassander]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

spiritwolf333;1509872 wrote: Cass -I look forward to your comments (I think).. The depth and knowledge of your questions lead me to believe that you are involved ,possibly, on a daily basis in the recovery industry...just curios?

No...I am not involved in the industry, except perhaps as a cranky critic. I am just trying to figure out how to take the results we see on mwo and make them more widely available. For some of us who have been around for two or more years it is very frustrating to see so many here succeed with baclofen but realize that it is unknown to so many who could be helped.

[spiritwolf333]

Baclofen -Help needed-Please

That's really good to hear. Either way would have been fine. It's even more uplifting to know that you are on a "mission" -just as I hope to be and continue to be. You folks are an incredible source of information and encouragement (as you already know) and I truly hope you all are here for future bac enrolees. Maybe I will be here with you all adding my two cents worth. CASS -if you have any other questions that would be helpful in your info accumulation -especially knowing that I am in the very early stages of reinvention. Also, I have thought how cool it might be to have a thread-only or blog that would only relate to each bac takers titration rates, time taken, SEs, mental improvements-or downgrades, personal changes -good or bad, and etc.. Maybe as my mental function becomes more improved, I can work on this or perhaps you could give it some thought now. This template type form layout would limit opinion writing and could be a great source of quick -dedicated information -and could really help newbies as they dive into the bac journey. Also, this type of consistent feedback information might help researchers outside mwo to help move the bac mission forward.