Update from Juan (Baclofen)

[Juan BH]

Hello all-

I wanted to post some of my progress over the past couple of weeks. I have had an AF day and several days of drinking only 3 beers , which is pretty good by the old standard. I obviously want more in terms of results, so I'll keep playing with it if I need to after sitting at 160mg/day awhile. I also talked with Dr. Levin this week and have some questions for all of you.

I know this has been discussed some here on MWO, but I am kind of concerned about something Dr. Levin told me. He said that while Dr. Ameisen was at a lower "maintenance dose" he became interested in alcohol again. He indicated that they both advise that individuals remain at their "indifference" dose for what I assume to be the rest of their lives. I don't know if I can do this forever and it is very troubling.

He also said that he thinks the indifference dose is a function of genetics rather than alcohol consumption. Any thoughts on that?

I know that there is a lot of controversy surrounding Dr. Levin and I do not want to stir that pot. He may have some shortcomings, but I think he is generally interested in helping us and he is about the only one I have found who is willing to put his license on the line to do it.

In short it has been a bit rocky since the last post, but the last week has been an improvement and I see some others have been reporting success too. :wd:

[chaos]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Juan BH;1494567 wrote: Hello all-

I wanted to post some of my progress over the past couple of weeks. I have had an AF day and several days of drinking only 3 beers , which is pretty good by the old standard. I obviously want more in terms of results, so I'll keep playing with it if I need to after sitting at 160mg/day awhile. I also talked with Dr. Levin this week and have some questions for all of you.

I know this has been discussed some here on MWO, but I am kind of concerned about something Dr. Levin told me. He said that while Dr. Ameisen was at a lower "maintenance dose" he became interested in alcohol again. He indicated that they both advise that individuals remain at their "indifference" dose for what I assume to be the rest of their lives. I don't know if I can do this forever and it is very troubling.

He also said that he thinks the indifference dose is a function of genetics rather than alcohol consumption. Any thoughts on that?

I know that there is a lot of controversy surrounding Dr. Levin and I do not want to stir that pot. He may have some shortcomings, but I think he is generally interested in helping us and he is about the only one I have found who is willing to put his license on the line to do it.

In short it has been a bit rocky since the last post, but the last week has been an improvement and I see some others have been reporting success too. :wd:

Thanks for the update Juan

[bleep]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Hey Juan, well done.

I don't think it's controversy as such, more just lack of knowledge. It seems to be different for everybody. One of the crucial factors appears to be whether or not you intend to drink again. If you do, then it seems that you will have to stay on baclofen. If not, the possibility exists that you can entirely come off it after a while.

As to your maintenance dose if you intend to carry on drinking, it normally is a little lower than the dose at which you will find indifference, mostly caused, I think, by titrating too fast past the required dose. The SE's do fade after a while as well, regardless of dose.

Another to look out for, and it sounds to me like this might very well be the case here, is that you are actually indifferent, you are now just drinking because drinking is what you do. Try and break the cycle, you might be surprised. Baclofen can remove the craving, but it won't actually stop you drinking, you have to do that.

At the end of the day, it is all about experimenting to find out what really works for you. Best of luck.

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

bleep;1494613 wrote: Hey Juan, well done.

I don't think it's controversy as such, more just lack of knowledge. It seems to be different for everybody. One of the crucial factors appears to be whether or not you intend to drink again. If you do, then it seems that you will have to stay on baclofen. If not, the possibility exists that you can entirely come off it after a while.

As to your maintenance dose if you intend to carry on drinking, it normally is a little lower than the dose at which you will find indifference, mostly caused, I think, by titrating too fast past the required dose. The SE's do fade after a while as well, regardless of dose.

Another to look out for, and it sounds to me like this might very well be the case here, is that you are actually indifferent, you are now just drinking because drinking is what you do. Try and break the cycle, you might be surprised. Baclofen can remove the craving, but it won't actually stop you drinking, you have to do that.

At the end of the day, it is all about experimenting to find out what really works for you. Best of luck.

Great post bleep-

I think you are right about me drinking out of habit. I am not drinking against my will now, except sometimes if I get past 4 it's game on. I haven't approached anything like the 15+ units I used to do every weekend for a couple of months now, though. One of these days I will post my graph.

It's good to have you around!

[emily]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Hey Juan

Sounds like you're doing great. I'm the same as you, I dread to think how many units I consumed on a weekend - think I may just be drinking out of habit also, it's Saturday night, I haven't drank all week but I'm on my second beer, because it's a Saturday night?? although just plan on having one more and that's it, changed days.

[kronkcarr]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Hey, Juan BH,

You sound good. I sat at my switch dose, 80 mgs, for 6 weeks because my then dr wouldn't let me go higher. In the beginning of that time I did really, really want to drink. I think it was out of habit: drop my son at his dad's for the weekend, stop on the way home, get a bottle of wine, go home and drink it. I didn't get it and I never obsessed again. I went down to 40 mgs slowly and still didn't crave, but my anxiety came back, so I now am at 60-70 mgs and will adjust if needed.

I don't like to lie to my dr, so now I don't have one. I don't know how you feel about it, but if you want to go down you may have to. Keep us posted!

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Wow it's been a long time since I posted on my thread. I guess I have not been wanting to post my own progress because it isn't great in terms of the numbers of drinks I have been consuming. I feel really good, but drank about 10 beers last night for no real reason other than I just wanted to.

I don't feel compelled to drink now. That feeling of needing alcohol like it's food or water is gone, but I do have a big hole in my life if I don't drink. That seems silly. There are so many other things I need and want to do, but drinking is comfortable. I need to break this habit and try the 30AF day like bleep suggests. Probably not going to start tonight though.

I also am not wanting to face life without my crutch, I guess. I am afraid to deal with the things I have neglected and people I have hurt by doing this for so long. It is overwhelming. God I am sick of thinking about myself and drinking and all of it.

Anyhow, I have an appointment with my "new" old GP this Tuesday and I really want to tell him about using Baclofen, but I am hesitant at the same time. I am at 180mg presently and take it pretty close to Dr. L's titration schedule. 50 in the morning, 30 at 10am, 50 at 4pm and 50 before bed time. I use the liquid bac mostly and pills when I am at work. No real bad side effects yet.

So back to my hesitation. The last guy I saw in a white coat was the pharmacists who filled my prescription from Dr. L. He was very suspricious and kind of stared at me when I paid for it. Still bugs me. I used to see this doctor (my GP) before and he is actually the reason I changed my insurance at the beginning of this year. I wanted to work with him again. He was compassionate the last time I saw him and did lots of bloodwork to check me out every time I visited. He didn't want to put alcoholism on my record either because he knew how damaging that can be. I just have the nagging feeling that I am doing something wrong by admistering baclofen myself. I am not working with Dr. L presently, but maybe I should rethink that.

I am feeling quite good though and that is because of Baclofen.

I did finally get a graph of my progress going. My units are generally down 4-5 across the board and have been since I started taking Naltrexone a year and a half ago. Now I am just taking Baclofen.



Thanks for visiting
j Attached files [img]/converted_files/2110271=7573-attachment.jpg[/img]

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Wow that graph is nearly impossible to see. Any suggestions on what I could do about that?

[bleep]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

The few times I have posted pictures here, they appeared enormous, and had to be scrolled across to be viewed in their entirety. You seem to have the opposite problem, but alas, I am clueless as to how to resolve it.

MY respect for most doctors has all but disappeared in the past few years. They spend vast amounts of time learning what treatments cure what afflictions, and don't seem to be able to think past a textbook when it really counts. Nevertheless, I still believe that you should try and give the guy the full picture, in the slim hope that he is one of the minority that care about people.

I think we all have it within ourselves to be our own doctors, major illness excepting of course. Nobody else is as aware of how we are feeling, and for that reason, I have no hesitation about self prescribing baclofen. There are very few doctors in the world who are even aware of its use, let alone its high dose properties. If you are forced to wait for the guidance of someone who at best you are a peripheral thought to, then you are in trouble. What I am trying to say, in a very convoluted fashion, is that you should feel good about this, not ashamed that you are sneakily curing yourself. You have identified a problem, found a solution, and gone and done it, and not waited for the medical world's approval, which is slow in coming.

As to facing life without the crutch of drinking, that is another story entirely. I wish I had words of wisdom, but I think each one of us has different demons, that we need to face in our own way. You can be assured that when when you finally put the cap on the bottle, it will be easier to face them than it was before.

Best of luck Juan.

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Thanks bleep. I will talk to my doctor about it. I am going to be proactive too and print off some of the research from Lo0p's consolidated baclofen information thread and Otter's Baclofen USA site. Thank you to all of you who contributed to those by the way!

This stuff is truly a blessing and I am not going to take it for granted.

Happy Mother's Day to all the Moms out there! I think I will call mine now

[MaryGoRound]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Juan BH;1504362 wrote:

I don't feel compelled to drink now. That feeling of needing alcohol like it's food or water is gone, but I do have a big hole in my life if I don't drink. That seems silly.
That does not sound silly at all. I think to our rational mind it is "silly" but we have all been there with conflicting nonsense talk in our heads that tells us we are better off drinking...if only for "today."

It would not hurt to try to force yourself to get a string of AF days to help build your confidence than you CAN live without alcohol. For me, even at indifference, I still think it might be a good idea to drink. It is the memories and habits that are hard to break.

bleep;1504463 wrote:

As to facing life without the crutch of drinking, that is another story entirely. I wish I had words of wisdom, but I think each one of us has different demons, that we need to face in our own way. You can be assured that when when you finally put the cap on the bottle, it will be easier to face them than it was before.

Agreed. As I look back on my past I always reached for the bottle for short term relief. It only made things worse. At the time, it always seems like a good idea. I got pleasure and I could hide. If I honestly look at it over time, it definitely made me weaker and weaker.

Also baclofen takes the kick out of drinking. It is not really pleasurable anymore.

It won't hurt to go to Dr. L if it makes you feel better and you have access to him. I do have him as a backup. There is some confidence in that. However, we are going through an off label treatment that is very slow to catch on. At times it can be very scary. I find more confidence hearing other stories than relying on the establishment.

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Having a good night tonight. Drank about 5 beers and then completely lost interest in the whole thing. It will be water for the rest of my evening.

[man on mars]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

re: posting images - I recommend going to imgur and drag-and-dropping your image into the site. Seriously, you just open up the site and then drag the image file's icon from your computer into the site. It will give you a pop-up thing, you click "start upload," and it gives you a link that you can share. All free.

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

I'll give that a try.

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

I went to see my GP today and things went pretty well. My vitals were better and I have lost some weight since seeing him last time (late '08 I guess). I did duscuss using HDB with him, which was awesome. I decided not to drop a file folder of research on his lap and just talked with him about it instead. He'd never heard of it , but gave ma a pat on the back for making some progress and trying something different.

He also suggested that I take in some AA meetings, which I may do. I have attended AA before and I do see a lot of value in it. I just need to find the right group... hopefully there is one where I can be open about taking baclofen without everyone feeling threatened by it. That may not be easy to find, but I'll at least make the effort. I may be able to get more out of it now since I'm taking baclofen, to be honest. My social anxiety made those meetings a virtual impossibility, as the thought of having to speak among strangers pretty much paralyzed me with fear.

So it happened again last night. I drank 5 beers and then found myself with a lack of interest in finishing the job. I am encouraged. I can probably count the number of times I have gone to bed sober in the past five years on one hand. FYI: I'm at 200mg/day now, 50/50/50/50.