Update from Juan (Baclofen)

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

It is a beautiful Sunday morning here in Northern California. Sun is rising, cool breeze and birds chirping. No hangover is quite a big factor in being able to enjoy it all!

So I am starting to settle down at 210mg. I increased my dose 20mg over the course of last week and that was probably too big of a jump. I have had some little panic attack and somnolence, but overall it has been a good weekend and productive to boot. It's my wife's birthday, too.

I don't think the potency of baclofen can be overstated. I am fine, but I think a 10mg increase is all I should attempt in the future.

I am also preoccupied with worry over getting myself into a situation where I won't have baclofen all of a sudden. Like an accident or stolen luggage or something. Has anyone developed contingency plans for this kind of thing? I understand that there are individuals who have had very sad and frightening experiences (even tragic ones) when they abruptly stopped taking baclofen.

[StuckinLA]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Lo0p has a safety deposit box. ReadThread12 has two close friends who have stashes of bac and all the medical literature, research, etc, along with emergency phone #s all stored away at their houses. I believe Redhead77 (I always just call them RedH and RedT, but I'm trying to be thorough for those of you who haven't been around too long), anyway RedH I believe has one of those electronic medical IDs that has all the drug info on it, and can be scanned or downloaded or whatever, should anything happen.

I just have tons and tons and tons of the stuff here--though be careful with that, too. Drugs do have expiration dates...

The other thing is, determination and resolve can serve you well. Should you ever find yourself out of bac suddenly, you can go into any ER and explain that you are on bac for muscle spasms, and that you ran out because of whyever you ran out. Tell them you're on 80mg/day and they won't bat an eye, and that will hold you over for a minute.

You may also--and this hasn't happened in a while but it has been done in the past--start a thread here. Just about anyone here will overnight mail you some. I know I would.

If you're unconscious due to accident, that's a problem. Try to keep the bac info in a prominent place somewhere, like your wallet.

[Lo0p]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Are you kidding? You live 20 minutes from me and an hour away from... "my ummm... special place". Not to mention that anyone who needs baclofen around here can get it... easily from anyone.

As far as emergency situations go, I used to have a med ID necklace (good idea). Last time I entered the hospital unconscious with pneumonia through the ER they immediately approached my mother and asked her "how much baclofen does he take a day?" Because it was on record from a surgery I had there in 2010.

They didn't bat an eye the first time and administered it without even contacting a doctor that I didn't have.

I spoke to an RN within the last couple of days and she said no doctor would be stupid enough to add withdrawal from a medication to whatever else is going on with you.

Conscious= Tell the truth and the whole truth. (period)
Unconscious= med ID necklace/bracelet or ICE card (in case of emergency) right behind your ID that you can make and laminate yourself. Put Baclofen XXXmg/day and when you wake up you will have been given that amount daily. The RN I spoke with said she used to crush the pills and put them in a nasal feeding tube. Make sure your wife knows your dosage and tell her to tell the truth.

[Lo0p]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

All an expiration date is is a guarantee from the manufacturer that with a normal amount of UV radiation and oxidation a pill will have an active dose at a given amount of time (usually 2 years) within a given range eg 17mg > 20mg.

The consensus among pharmacists is it is absolutely okay to take medication beyond it's expiration date with the understanding that it is likely less potent.

But then again who am I to know anything about this kind of stuff?

:new:

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

So I tried sitting through an AA meeting tonight and I was quickly reminded why I don't like them. Bummer. I only made it through about 15 minutes an bailed out at the first coffee break. I might try a different one this weekend to see if it has a better vibe.

It just seems like the most unnatural thing in the world to me, all these people forcing themselves into relationships with "sponsors" and "the rooms" where everyone kind of repeats the same lines about how the program has saved their lives. I don't get it. I am very happy for anyone that finds a way out of an addiction though, don't get me wrong.

I have a problem with the "character defects", too. There are a lot of alkies out there (and I put myself in this category), who are good people, it's just the addiction that make us do terrible things. Addiction takes over the mind and the behavior follows from that. Sure, my thinking may be screwed up from addiction too, but permanently? I think that is debatable

I also refuse to accept that there is no solution other that working those goddamned steps for the rest of my life. I can see how they could kind of help me deal with life, but really? I am supposed to just keep repeating them over and over and over until I die or start drinking again? I never have actually worked them, so I can't be too critical. I'm sure the next AA person I talk to will point that out to me.

This last thing is what really iced me on AA the last go round. My previous sponsor told me that he thought I wasn't able to stop drinking and do the program because I hadn't truly hit bottom yet. I had admitted I was an alcoholic and agreed to the higher power concept, but what the fuck??? Do I have to lose my wife or fucking kill somebody driving drunk before I am ready to really commit myself to the program?

Holy shit there was just an earthquake! Sorry about the rant, but I had to get this off my chest.

[john doe]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Juan BH;1509884 wrote: My previous sponsor told me that he thought I wasn't able to stop drinking and do the program because I hadn't truly hit bottom yet.

That's a dangerous thing to say to someone. Its a ticket to say. Ok well... I'll go drink ALOT more booze and come back when I'm totally lost.

I've never been to one but the whole concept seems foreign to me. I like listening to stories and all but I don't want to be opening my heart to a room full of strangers day after day. Maybe one person yeah.

[MaryGoRound]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

See if another meeting works better.

In the group I frequent, only a few people use sponsors and the 12 steps are completely optional. We also have a fair share of atheists. The only issue is not drinking - which has been my stumbling block.

Other groups can be annoying and I only go there if I really need something. I try to let the rest slide off my back. Remember, people are trying to get through this the best way they know how.

I have never had a sponsor and probably never will. What if the sponsor is crazier than me? It is good to find mentors.

I also do not like the term "character defects." I think it is derogatory. I like to think of it as an "inventory." Take everything out of your mind and find out what you like and what you don't like. Keep what you like and toss what you don't like. Easier said than done! Truth be told, I have never done this but the concept makes sense. Also, a confusing part is that a trait may be very valuable in some situations but hold you back in others. Sarcasm is a good example. What to do with that? Maybe just being aware of when and how you use it is a start.

I also like the concept of acceptance. Like acknowledging, "I am scared, uncomfortable, and I don't know what to do." Just facing that fear rather than reaching for the bottle can do wonders for your self confidence. The terrified feeling will pass. It seems strange to say that acknowledging weakness makes you stronger, but I think this is true (note to self: remember this next time it happens to me!)

[MaryGoRound]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Also, if you ask 25 people in the room how they work the program you will get 25 different programs (ok, maybe some repeats but I do know people go about interpreting the program differently). I always get a chuckle out of "just work the program" as if there is really one program.

(Edit: you would have to ask them privately as there is peer pressure in meetings to repeat the same dogma)

I also had a meeting (a more traditional meeting) where I admitted another slip. After the meeting a lady turned to me and said, "you are going to die if you keep this up!" I was horrified and then I went on a spree. Definitely not a helpful comment or meeting.

[MaryGoRound]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Also, if you ask 25 people in the room how they work the program you will get 25 different programs (ok, maybe some repeats but I do know people go about interpreting the program differently). I always get a chuckle out of "just work the program" as if there is really one program.

I also had a meeting (a more traditional meeting) where I admitted another slip. After the meeting a lady turned to me and said, "you are going to die if you keep this up!" I was horrified and then I went on a spree. Definitely not a helpful comment or meeting.

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Great post Mary! I will keep these things in mind and try another one. This is exactly what I needed to hear.

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Hello all, it's Juan checking in after a long weekend-

Nothing more on the AA front. I think I'm just going to let that rest for a while. Maybe I'll revisit the idea in the future, but for now I just need to stay focused on managing myself at 220mg/day. I wish all of us baclofen folks could get together face to face somehow for a meeting an hour a week. That would be awesome! Unfortunately it's completely unrealistic as we are so far apart in time and distance. Who knows, maybe technology will allow that to happen one day. MWO does a pretty good job of it for now.

I had a grand vision for starting my 30 days AF this weekend, but as it is Memorial Day weekend here in the States, I kind of thought a barbeque would be nice on Saturday and well a couple of beers would be nice while grilling of course... you get the idea. I didn't get hammered or anything, but I certainly stayed off of the road. Sunday was similar and I am cracking my first cerveza right now.

A while back, the Baclofen combined with drinking made me super loopey. More recently drinking+baclofen sparked a minor anxiety attack that lasted about 24hours and that totally freaked me out. I added another 10mg before this weekend, which may or may not have been a good idea, to bring my daily BAC intake to 220mg. Things have been fine all weekend. SEs are toatally manageable and it appears that all is well.

Last night something really cool happened. I was sober at bedtime and I was really starting to feel the 10mg increase (it usually takes a couple of days to hit me). I went to sleep and kind of had a couple of state changes in my brain while I was snoozing. I was asleep, but aware of what was happening somehow. I'm pretty sure it was indifference knocking at my door. It was like watching a TV with no reception and all you see is static on the picture for a long time. So I'm sleeping with the static and then of a sudden the picture transmits and I just get this feeling of relief, like alcohol doesn't have me anymore! That happened about three or four times and I am pretty encouraged by it today.

I hope this finds you well,

Juan

[bleep]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Hey, it's strange you mention that. I remember something similar from my first titration. I had been posting how loopy I felt, and what strange shit I had been up to, and then I suddenly posted that I was going up more, and quicker. Everyone here thought I was absolutely nuts, and they were right, but I just 'felt' that something was happening to my brain. I could sense the change happening. I didn't put it at all as well as you just have though, which did nothing to reassure the good folk here!

Sounds really good Juan.

[Ne/Neva Eva]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

I feel like I'm always blathering on about the SEs I experienced and how awful it was to titrate up on baclofen (both true) and I often leave the part out about the fact that I KNEW it was working. Something good was happening. For all the dreadful, there was plenty of positive reinforcement. Most of it inexplicable which, being the hippy-chick that I am, I put down to some sort of metaphysical medical magic God sort-of-a-thing. But there is no question that in my dreams (both the ones I had at night and the daydreams I was starting to believe might actually come true) were really good indications that it was capital-G Good.

Love your metaphor, btw. kttdp!

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

The somnolence was really kicking my ass on Thursday. I was in a terrible "new supervisors" training and I had to keep shaking my feet and tapping my fingers to keep from dozing off. I've got everyone fooled now... they think I have a problem with methamphetamines instead of alcohol.

I decided that I had to change my dosing schedule as a result and that kind of threw me for a loop yesterday because I added more in the morning and took less at midday. I got a good shot in me around 4pm, but I could really feel the baclofen drop in my system by that time. I think the amount BAC in my CSF was pretty low at that point beacuse I really wanted to drink.

And then I got wasted. 5 beers and a bottle of wine. Most nights now I don't drink more than 3 drinks and I lose interest in it or get humgry or sleepy. I was drinking fast last night and I couldn't really feel the effects. I'm feeling them today though!

I'm at 230mg/day and intend to adjust to this schedule: 100mg (4am) / 30mg (10am) / 100mg (4pm). Any thoughts on this?

[Juan BH]

Update from Juan (Baclofen)

Hello everyone-

I just wanted to follow up on my last post because it still seems strange to me that such a minor change in my dosing schedule could derail my progress like it did. That day when I was in the training class and could barely stay awake I drank Red Bull to help fight off the somnolence. I read one of terryk's posts where he hypothesized that one of the ingredients in Red Bull, Inositol, may counter act Baclofen's anti-craving ability as it has it's own psychotropic properties and builds up in the cerebral spinal fluid as well. I am not a scientist, but what he describes, with a sudden increase in cravings after consuming energy drinks mirrors my experience to a T. I am looking into it a little more today.

At any rate, I am back to "normal", just a couple of cervezas last night and no need to press on to oblivion. I am fully adjusted to the new dosing schedule and am generally feeling upbeat about the near future. The switch is near, I know it.