Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

[lakelover]

Good day all,
Let me start by saying :new: so please forgive any missteps.

My goals are as follows:
1. Be able to not drink any time I want, and not have cravings, and still be able to sleep
2. Be able to have a drink or two when I'm at a social gathering without going ape-sh** and getting plowed
3. Quit smoking
4. Quit porn (is that ok to post here?...I think its related for me in the addiction / low self-confidence cycle)
5. Obtain a sense of peace and regain my sense of self-confidence
6. Stay celibate until I'm proud of who I am and no longer feel I'd be subjecting another beautiful soul to this crazy cycle of "get-up, feel hungover, work and stress, eat, party, drink AL, wash-rince-repeat"
7. Lose the friends that are just drinking buddies, and keep the ones that are good for me
8. Eventually, to inspire others to do what I did

A brief history:
I was raised very...very...very religious, married my first, even led the singing in the church we went too. I did very little drinking during the time I was married. I was divorced after 12 years at the age of 30 without a sense of faith (I was totally pissed off at God). I began drinking, started a band, and chased women, and I've been this way for the last 9 years. I split with my ex-fiance of 3 years in Jan of 2012 and other than one brief fling have been single since November of 2012.

Current situation:
I'm now, for the first time since 2006, doing well financially, my job is good, my house and dog are awesome, my friends are supportive, and yet I'm lonely as hell, drinking a bottle of wine a night, sometimes more (even by myself), and I'm depressed and confused.

Basically, in the past I could point the finger at situations and explain away why I was anxious, scared, insecure, or sad, but I have nothing to blame it on now. I decided...'oh no...it must be me!' I decided in January to try and cut back on drinking, but since then I've only gone 3 days without AL. The issue for me isn't necessarily the drinking every day, its that when I don't drink, I can't sleep (its been that way my whole life). I can't seem to quiet thoughts in my head (my self-talk is incessant).

I've studied self-help, psychology, string theory, addiction, etc. (probably just like most of you) and finally decided that I'm using these methods (AL, porn, chasing women, weed) as means of escape and to self-medicate something that's deep inside me (I believe this anxiety/low self-esteem has been with me my whole life, and is not caused by the drinking nor any current situation). If I don't stop self-medicating and solve the root problem I'll end up being 80 years old and wonder what the hell I did with my life (since I sometimes don't remember the evening times when I'm drinking).

So, here I am on MWO. I purchased Baclofen yesterday and am looking forward to starting it when the shipment arrives.

My questions for any and all are as follows:
1. Do you consider weed a valid source of respite from the chaos in your head (and better than AL if you're trying to cut back / quit)? I don't smoke weed very often, but thought if I needed to it may help while I'm working through this.
2. If I let myself slip once in a while, I've chosen not to feel guilty on the premise that forward progress is more desirable than perfection. Is this viewpoint ok in your opinion?
3. Will Baclofen help me with my goal to get to the point where I can have AL in moderation, and should I have a period of no AL for a time (if so, how long)?

Thanks in advance,
LL

[YouKayBee]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

Hopefully some with more experience with baclofen will be along to answer more specifically in a minute.

I do know that trying not to drink whilst building up baclofen dose does help minimise side effects.

One of your other questions I can answer too - weed. I'd not recommend trying to switch to that thinking it's somehow an alternative. I was offered this option by a well meaning friend who was convinced other drugs were preferable to alcohol. All I did was behave in exactly the same way with that substance, and decided it was far easier to stick to something legal and in the end I really didn't want to be drugged with anything - just wanted to be sober, me and happy with that.

I think we have a member here who tried swapping alcohol for dope who posted about his experience and I'll have a look for it right now.

[learningtolovewinter]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

2. If I let myself slip once in a while, I've chosen not to feel guilty on the premise that forward progress is more desirable than perfection. Is this viewpoint ok in your opinion?

Yup, I think you have to look at it this way, otherwise you give up if you mess up, and that doesn't help much now does it? Not to say you should 'plan' to mess up.... but you know what I mean.

This is hardly the first time I am trying to clean up my act, so I am not looking at this as all or nothing either. In the past that outlook resulted in a big fat fail for me. Everyday you have a clear head is a day you are walking in the right direction, I think.

I say re-evaluate the list in a weeks time. Maybe you have to tailor your goals to what you can do now, and worry about being perfect next week? ;0

Give it a shot, I am wishing you every success!!

[YouKayBee]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

Hopefully some with more experience with baclofen will be along to answer more specifically in a minute.

I do know that trying not to drink whilst building up baclofen dose does help minimise side effects.

One of your other questions I can answer too - weed. I'd not recommend trying to switch to that thinking it's somehow an alternative. I was offered this option by a well meaning friend who was convinced other drugs were preferable to alcohol. All I did was behave in exactly the same way with that substance, and decided it was far easier to stick to something legal and in the end I really didn't want to be drugged with anything - just wanted to be sober, me and happy with that.

I think we have a member here who tried swapping alcohol for dope who posted about his experience and I'll have a look for it right now.

It was Greg and he mentions it in this thread https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...nts-73257.html

and he did start a thread here, the content of the opening post was removed but I suspect it was full of stuff about taking drugs https://www.mywayout.org/community/f2...tes-48746.html

[buddabelly]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

Hi Lakelover

Hi Lake,

welcome. I only got here two days ago. I had been lurking a long while. Bit scared of making mistakes etc. I'm not forum savvy at all. Never really been on one properly before. I don't know what all the buttons are for.

They are a lovely, lovely bunch here, willing to help at every turn. I've just introduced myself in the newbies nest. I couldn't get into. My comp I think. I dunno.
Anyway ! Hugs and welcome.

It's cosy here.

:welcome:

PS Love to your dog. What's his name. Get him to sign up too. He can get some support when your a bit needy.

[buddabelly]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

Hi again Lake,

I read the whole way through your post now.

Your Home !

Lea

[kronkcarr]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

Hi, LL,

This thread is gonna rock! Thanks for starting it.

First, my thought on your last 3 questions:

1. Pot--it's up to you what you think
2. If you slip it's up to you how you feel about it. Just start and see how you feel.
3. Bac helped me to moderate and it still does. I took no time off from AL, but I did not bring it into my home and I did not drink alone.

Now to the meat of your post:

1. Because of bac I really don't want to drink. I had 1 night where my routine would have been to stop and buy a bottle and go home and drink it alone. I white knuckled it and didn't and gained confidence and self esteem. I really can't get a buzz on AL because if I drink 3 I have to go to sleep. Every 2 weeks or so I have 1 or 2 glasses of wine with friends and it's more of a ritual.

Bac messed, and continues to mess, with my sleep. I'm up early or up late and almost always tired around 3-4 pm.

2. I drink every couple of weeks. I think if I wanted to over drink my friends would refuse to participate with me.

3. Smoking--I dunno

4. Porn--I dunno

5. Absolutely I found peace of mind with bac. I hadn't realized how compulsively I thought. Now when I do it I can see it. My first month on bac was like heaven. I had to be outdoors and I was in awe of nature. It was truly my favorite time with bac. Insights flew into my mind. My second and third month I started caring for my home and yard. My home used to be functional to me. Now I like being there. In the fourth month I figured out that I absolutely loved myself. I knew me and all I'd done and been through and I realized I rock!

6. I'm with you about relationships. I was lonely and now I'm happy to be with me. I wouldn't have wanted to bring someone new along on my bac trip.

7. Friends who don't suit you will move along. I used to agonize over how to tell a friend something they did that I didn't care for. Now I speak kindly but I'm done being miserable for someone else's comfort. It's been very freeing for me.

8, Your thread will inspire others.

Here's to ya!

[Colin]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

Baclofen will not help with depression. If you can't get pills for depression you are far too likely to think "What the shit, it can't get any worse - I'm off to the boozer or bottle shop or whatever seems like a good idea."

A mail exchange with Renaud de Beaurepaire, the author of Suppression of Alcohol Dependence Using Baclofen: A 2-Year Observational Study of 100 Patients

Start reading the mails from the bottom first

----- Original Message -----
From: Colin
To: Renaud de Beaurepaire
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Baclofen, alcohol and depression


When I look back to the periods immediately before and immediately after I started citalopram there was an enormous difference. Simple activities that gave no pleasure before were suddenly a reason to live!
Without treating the depression I would have had little or no reason to stop drinking if all that was on offer was a clear view of a depressing present and future.
You have hit that nail squarely on its head.
----- Original Message -----
From: Renaud de Beaurepaire
To: Colin
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 11:57 PM
Subject: Re: Baclofen, alcohol and depression


Thank you for your mail. You certainely reached your controlling dose, no need of testing. But baclofen does not prevent you from drinking a glass or two.
I do not mean exactly that comorbid depression makes you less amenable to baclofen treatment, Just think that depressed people often do not really want to be freed from alcohol. And do not take their medication properly.
RB



Le 21 mars 13 ? 18:53, Colin a ?crit :


Dear Dr. de Beaurepaire,
My congratulations and thanks for your paper "Suppression of Alcohol Dependence Using Baclofen".
I am a 66 year old alcoholic with comorbid chronic depression for which I have been prescribed 40 mg per day citalopram. This had a very successful effect on the depression. April 2012 I was admitted to a Dutch clinic for a seven week alcohol treatment. Towards the end of this period I began taking baclofen and since then I have slowly titrated up to 150 mg per day, while having been teetotal, with no cravings and only marginal interest in alcohol. Sooner or later I will be testing the efficacy of baclofen by some limited drinking since I have no other way of knowing whether I have reached my "controlling dose".
In your paper you noted that alcoholics with comorbid depression were less amenable to baclofen treatment. I would appreciate any further imformation.

Yours Sincerely,
Colin

[TexasAg]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

:welcome: LL,

I think those are good goals. I myself have been on my Bac treatment for aproximately 10.5 mos. I don't binge anymore, alcohol does not occupy my thoughts and I don't drink against my will. I've given answers below.

lakelover;1500180 wrote: My goals are as follows:
1. Be able to not drink any time I want, and not have cravings, and still be able to sleep
I drink occassionaly but do not have cravings at all. I still look out for the "habit" of wanting to drink but I don't have physical cravings. As for the sleep, I've suffered with this pre-bac and still. But I think this goes more to the point of our anxiety. I don't drink to sleep now.
2. Be able to have a drink or two when I'm at a social gathering without going ape-sh** and getting plowed
Yes you can. Like I said, I'll still drink occassionaly but I don't need to.
3. Quit smoking
I'm not sure on this one. Maybe someone else can give advice.
4. Quit porn (is that ok to post here?...I think its related for me in the addiction / low self-confidence cycle)
yes! hahahaha, I don't know why or how but it must be something with addiction. Like I put in another post, bombay badonkadonks don't have the same appeal :H
5. Obtain a sense of peace and regain my sense of self-confidence
I have slowly but surely taken strides in this area. But for me, first things first, I had to stop drinking and feeling hopeless and feeling like a P.O.S.
6. Stay celibate until I'm proud of who I am and no longer feel I'd be subjecting another beautiful soul to this crazy cycle of "get-up, feel hungover, work and stress, eat, party, drink AL, wash-rince-repeat"
Stay celibate?? :H I'm married so hard for me to relate but more power to you!
7. Lose the friends that are just drinking buddies, and keep the ones that are good for me
This is hard at first but I now realize that while there were some friends that were even more messed up than me, I had/have plenty that can have a good time without getting stupid.
8. Eventually, to inspire others to do what I did
Plenty of time to pay it forward.

I can't seem to quiet thoughts in my head (my self-talk is incessant).
You are not alone. I had this constantly. Baclofen helps to calm the voices.

If I don't stop self-medicating and solve the root problem I'll end up being 80 years old and wonder what the hell I did with my life (since I sometimes don't remember the evening times when I'm drinking).
Baclofen will help you stop drinking. But after, is when you have to deal with root issues, which for me were quite a bit harder and I'm still working through.


My questions for any and all are as follows:
1. Do you consider weed a valid source of respite from the chaos in your head (and better than AL if you're trying to cut back / quit)? I don't smoke weed very often, but thought if I needed to it may help while I'm working through this.
I don't smoke weed so can't help you on this.

2. If I let myself slip once in a while, I've chosen not to feel guilty on the premise that forward progress is more desirable than perfection. Is this viewpoint ok in your opinion?
This is probably one of the most important things I learned with Baclofen and from the Bac veterans on this site. This is a treatment for a physical disease. If a diabetic eats a candy bar it's not the end of the world. I had AA so ingrained in my head that I felt like a failure whenever I'd drink. But if I overdrink, which I have post switch, I know now to get back on my horse and keep going. Like a bac veteran once told me, Bac stops the NEED to drink but it doesn't keep us from being stupid. :H

3. Will Baclofen help me with my goal to get to the point where I can have AL in moderation, and should I have a period of no AL for a time (if so, how long)?
Yes Bac will help you get rid of the NEED to drink. Like I said, I don't really drink anymore but on the rare occasion I do, it's no big deal. That being said, the Bac treatment and Side Effects goes much smoother if you can keep from drinking. Easier said than done at first but most people will say that you'll get to your switch sooner if you can string AF days together.

Welcome again!

Cheers!

[lakelover]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

Wow, thank you all for your prompt responses. Very encouraging! :-)

I purchased 'heal thyself' to read about baclofen and it sounded almost too good to be true (read the whole book yesterday). I'm sure most of you have read it, but if you haven't - get it.

UKBlonde, thanks for the link - reading up on it now. (and I had a feeling that pot as a substitute was not going to be a good answer)

Colin, thanks for your insight as well. I'm hopeful that my sadness/depression is nothing even close to what others experienced (I once had a friend tell me "you're a disgrace to depression" because he saw me jovial everytime I was around others).

Kronkcarr and others, thank you thank you thank you!

TexasAG - thank you for your response. I am really hoping Bac is as good as it appears, and that the SEs aren't as bad as some say they can be. I'll be browsing the Bac forum posts for ways to limit the side effects as much as possible.

[StuckinLA]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

I live in California but don't have a California ID. If I did, you can bet I'd have a medical marijuana card by now. So I say go for bong rips every afternoon if it helps. And dude, I just started a Tumblr for all my porn--it's out of hand. But seriously, though, depending on dose you may notice some sexual SEs, and as you read Heal Thyself yesterday, you'll remember that sexual addictions (including porn) are bound up in the same GABA brain nonsense as drinking. When I was up kinda high (anything over 150mg/day) I'd still look at porn out of habit, but it wouldn't do all that much for me. At times I worried that bac was making me impotent, but really in retrospect I think it was just making porn uninteresting.

Sorry about the smoking, but most of us have not found bac to really help with that. And if anything drinking less makes you want to smoke more. I'm at 2 packs/day and can't seem to find the motivation to change that at all.

OK that it for now. Oh, and :welcome: And yeah, we're a pretty friendly bunch.

[StuckinLA]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

Alright one more thing. The problem with drinking buddies is that all they want to do is hang out at the bar. When bac starts to slow your cravings down, even if not all the way, you'll find that you don't really want to hang out at bars all the much. I have a huge crush on my bartender, and want to see her and talk to her everyday. But even with that, I just couldn't bring myself to sit there all night--there was no reason to... That was when I was around 200mg/day, for reference, and it would take me an hour or sometimes more to drink ONE beer. I couldn't even run a tab in those days, because there was no way I'd drink enough to reach the credit card minimum.

Suffice it to say that things are a little different for me now, but just letting you know what to expect.

[lakelover]

Newby hoping to moderate drinking long-term

StuckinLA;1500417 wrote:
Sorry about the smoking, but most of us have not found bac to really help with that. And if anything drinking less makes you want to smoke more. I'm at 2 packs/day and can't seem to find the motivation to change that at all.

Hey StuckinLA. I used to be a 1+1/2 pack a day smoker and switched to e-cigs. Fricken love the thing (and I can smoke anywhere). I just don't want to be bound by anything, you know what I mean? Trust me when I say if my batteries die on my e-cig I turn cranky awful quick. It's that sign that tells me I just traded one addiction for another (cancer sticks for e-cigs), at least no one's gotten cancer from a e-cig so far.

And yes - if I lived in Cali I'd have a MMCard for sure.



Oh - and looking forward to it taking me an hour (or at least more than 10 minutes) to drink a beer!